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Pondero
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Ani Ibi:
We must be reading different history books.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
That kind of thinking is WHY the problem is so difficult to solve. The problem is an Irish problem, and all the Irish must be involved in the solution.
There may be a reason for that.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
Passing on classified information to Loyalist Paramilitaries and targeting people for death squads is indeed a tough job.
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Ani_Ibi
Guest
Stiofan has managed to keep his shirt on despite the provocation.
To reiterate to you: the troubles have been all over the island for centuries.
The problem lies in the fact that Ireland is the only occupied nation in Europe. The problem is that England used one standard to enable independence for her British Empire colonies and another standard to obstruct independence for Ireland.
Not envying Stiofan does not make right what your tautological refusal to recognize has made wrong; namely, the racial distinctions, the history (all of it), and the persecution.
This is as anecdotal as your first story about the girl who showed you the bullet-ridden bridge. What commentary do you have about the research thusfar offered?
I suggest that it is not pure bad luck. It is opinionated obstinacy in the face of an overwhelming body of counterindications to such a position.
As any invading army would who were up against a people bound and determined to stop another people from thieving everything they owned (including their names and their language and their lineages) and then turfing them out of their own homes; up against a literate people bound and determined to die on their feet rather than live on their knees.
Moreover, as has been pointed out to you, Pondero, a couple of times, the British Army did not keep the warring sections from killing each other. They aided and abetted the paramilitaries of one side to slaughter Catholics. Oh and…Bloody Sunday? Waddupwidat?
So?
By the way, not only do I suggest that the Irish in the diaspora be included in the referendum, I now suggest that Wales, Cornwall, and Scotland be invited to join a new United Commonwealth of Celts (UCC).
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vern_humphrey
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Pondero
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Ani:
From what you have written about my views on the Irish problems, I take it I won’t be getting a Christmas Card from you this year
We are having quite a storm in West Toronto at present.
From what you have written about my views on the Irish problems, I take it I won’t be getting a Christmas Card from you this year
We are having quite a storm in West Toronto at present.
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Ani_Ibi
Guest
vern humphrey:
My teach-yourself-Irish book is sitting here unused. :crying:
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vern_humphrey
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Ani Ibi:
ar = our
la = day.
Our day will come. Often heard motto in Republican circles.
Tiochaidh (pronounced "Chucky) = future tense of the verb “to come.”
ar = our
la = day.
Our day will come. Often heard motto in Republican circles.
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Ani_Ibi
Guest
Merry Christmas.Ani:
From what you have written about my views on the Irish problems, I take it I won’t be getting a Christmas Card from you this year
http://www.artie.com/20031215/arg-christmas-tree-url.gif
I have been thinking of getting you a nice book on Irish history.
We are having grey skies and drizzle downtown.
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Ani_Ibi
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vern humphrey:
Go raibh mile maith agat. (Thank you very much.) :bounce:
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RikasAngel
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Hello All,
I am very happy to hear the IRA is putting its weopons down. Gerry Adams should also resign and let someone else lead Sein Fein. I fully support Irish Nationalism, but I have absolutely no sympathy for Adams and the IRA. Much like Osama & Alqueda, the IRA and Gerry Adams have given Catholics a bad name.
I am very happy to hear the IRA is putting its weopons down. Gerry Adams should also resign and let someone else lead Sein Fein. I fully support Irish Nationalism, but I have absolutely no sympathy for Adams and the IRA. Much like Osama & Alqueda, the IRA and Gerry Adams have given Catholics a bad name.
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Pondero
Guest
I think I am the only ex-Brit who is on this thread and my views are different from the majority who write here, as they are Irish in descent and Catholic. In Yorkshire, it has been my experience, that no-one really cares whether you are Catholic or Protestant and I recall no arguments about religion in our house even though we were evenly divided by religion. Two were Catholic and two Protestant. The fighting in Northern Ireland was just beyond our comprehension.I had friends in the British Army in Trieste, Germany, Middle East, the Malayan Campaign ( fightingjungle terrorists), Hong Kong, and even an older person I knew who was wounded in Korea. There wasn’t a person on our street who hadn’t done some service in the British Army, even if it was only National Service and whatever my neice’s husband did in the Royal Marines in Northern Ireland, I am sure it was honourable.
Ani, the correct term for the Irish language, is Irish Gaelic. As a man walking on the streets of Dublin wanting to use a public washroom, I went in where it said “fir”.
Thanks for the Christmas card.
Ani, the correct term for the Irish language, is Irish Gaelic. As a man walking on the streets of Dublin wanting to use a public washroom, I went in where it said “fir”.
Thanks for the Christmas card.
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Ani_Ibi
Guest
The persecution is on the basis of
race and landgrab.
It so happened that the Irish converted to Catholicism and did not have the same motivation as Henry VIII to throw over Rome. ***You can repeat a thousand times that for you it is about ***
religion
and it is to a certain extent, but not to the only extent and not even to a major extent.
The Irish are not Englishmen-with-freckles.
The Irish are not Catholic-Englishmen.
The Irish are Irish,
a people distinct from the English.
And it will continue to be beyond your conprehension if you continue to disapprise yourself of the history.
Technically speaking, Irish is one of the Gaelic Q languages.
Gaelic Q languages include Scottish Gaelic, Manx, and Irish. Gaelic P languages include Welsh, Cornish, and Breton.
Because the language was suppressed by the various unsavoury practices of the occupying forces, Irish was almost obliterated. Written Irish was not universally available. The culture and literature were communicated by means of travelling storytellers. This (and persecution) caused Irish to be predominantly an oral culture. People separated widely geographically, therefore, evolved their local versions of the language. Regional variations resulted.
At least in Canada, Irish Gaelic quite often is confused with Scottish Gaelic or with Gaelic as spoken by some in Northern Ireland. Professor McLennan claims to teach Irish Gaelic but from what I remember it is nothing like Irish. The only way I can get Irish language material over here in Canada is by calling it ‘Irish’ not Irish Gaelic. If I ask for Irish Gaelic, I get Professor McLennan.
Yes, Vern, at some point I studied Irish at uni. I forget it all though. :crying:
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Let me quote another Brit, Rudyard Kippling:
The toad beneath the harrow knows
Exactly where each tooth point goes
A butterfly upon the road
Preaches contentment to that toad.
Yes. There is no anti-Catholic discrimination in Yorkshire. In Northern Ireland there was the most vicious anti-Catholic discrimination.
I will not accuse your friends and relatives of anything dishonorable.
But it is well-documented that the British forces in Northern Ireland worked with the Loyalist paramilitaries, passed them classified information, and targeted Catholics for Loyalist death squads.
It has recently been shown that the British had a mole in the IRA, and this mole was ordered to kill a British soldier. To preserve the mole’s cover, the British set up one of their own soldiers, who was duly killed.
When speaking English, the Irish call their language Irish. When speaking Irish, they call it Gaelic.
Gael, by the way, is pronounced “Goil.” Always. As in Finnia Gael.
(For those who might find this mystifying, Finnia Gael is prnounced “Feenya Geel.”)
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Pondero
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Ani Ibi:
Furthermore, shouting doesn’t impress anyone.http://forum.catholic.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
No one can tell you anything and you have a know it all attitude.
Furthermore, shouting doesn’t impress anyone.http://forum.catholic.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
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Ani_Ibi
Guest
Quite frankly Pondero this is just plain false and insulting. I have frequently retracted claims I have made if the person with whom I have had discussions has proven his or her point or if I can’t locate a reference backing up my claim. You however…
Evidently repeating my point frequently and having it utterly ignored hasn’t impressed you. Also asking you to read the research that not only myself but others have posted hasn’t impressed you. So you have resorted to personal attack.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
Let me get this straight. You are not Irish. We are – both living in Ireland and of the Diaspora.
You are telling us how the Irish problem should be solved, and because we have patiently pointed out why your solution won’t work, WE are the ones who should be chided?
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STIOFAN
Guest
As vern says here-in lies the problem, you thinking it’s a 6 county problem, when the original problem was a 32 Ireland problem. Strange but true, but I live in Ulster, and it has 9 counties, 3 in the Irish Republic, and we know where the other 6 are, silly beyond belief.
Don’t worry about me, I’ve been there done that, strange to think I watched Neil Armstrong put foot on the moon in 1969.
Also in 1969 I saw the British troops land, Neil left, and the troops are still here, damn those troops must have found life here.
Don’t take it personal, I don’t get along with lots of people, some because they are users, some spongers, and others because if they are with their friends they don’t want to know you.
But am I losing any sleep over them, heck no I sleep liike a baby, but they’ll be back when they need something.
Well I will agree with you there, originally the army was doing a good job, but you can thank the Unionists in power in Stormont for changing that.
In 1969 the women of the Falls road Belfast were making the army tea, cooking for them, the lot.
But the powers at Stormont changed all that, word was sent to the army not to be too friendly with those Catholics.
Anyway it all went as we say here in Ireland " a wee bit on the Kildare side" (local saying for screwing things up)
Personal question, answer if you feel comfortable but did you serve here ?
Anyway as for the slugger blog, we know there won’t be a united Ireland for who knows when, but things are better here.
Latest news today is Paisley won’t sit down in the forth coming talks, surprise surprise !!! whats new ?
As for the days of Catholics being treated like second class citizens, well theyr’e over, and I hope never to return.
And as for voting for a united Ireland I need to check back on the Good Friday agreement, but I think there is a provision made for a 32 Ireland vote.
After all the people of the Republic voted along with the north for the Good Friday agreement, so I don’t see why not again.
Slán
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STIOFAN
Guest
True it’s hardly ever mentioned, then again they aren’t occupied.
I worked in London for a while and it was great not to discuss politics.
But once you set foot back on the old sod, well it’s back to more of the same.
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vern_humphrey
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STIOFÁN:
The Englishman wrote “Hunting Elephants with Gun and Camera.”
The American wrote “How to Breed Bigger and Better Elephants.”
The German wrote “An Introduction to the Elephant” in twelve volumes.
The Frenchman wrote “The Sex Life of the Elephant.”
And the Irishman wrote "The Elephant and the Irish Question."http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif
I know you’ve heard this one, but I’ll tell it anyway. At the International University, the candidates for the Doctorate had to write their dissertations on elephants.
The Englishman wrote “Hunting Elephants with Gun and Camera.”
The American wrote “How to Breed Bigger and Better Elephants.”
The German wrote “An Introduction to the Elephant” in twelve volumes.
The Frenchman wrote “The Sex Life of the Elephant.”
And the Irishman wrote "The Elephant and the Irish Question."http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif
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STIOFAN
Guest
vern humphrey:
yesterday while in a friends house, he told me to go to the cartoonist section.
It had Ian Paisely, Geffory Donaldson, Peter the punt Robinson, and it showed them around the table writing a response, to the standing down of the RIR.
Any Idea’s what they wrote ? well it only had one word. No !
Good one Vern,
yesterday while in a friends house, he told me to go to the cartoonist section.It had Ian Paisely, Geffory Donaldson, Peter the punt Robinson, and it showed them around the table writing a response, to the standing down of the RIR.
Any Idea’s what they wrote ? well it only had one word. No !
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