Irish abuse report is 'shocking'

[Gottle_of_Geer]

BBC: Irish abuse report is “shocking”

An inquiry into abuse suffered by children in Catholic institutions in Ireland is “shocking reading” the country’s parliament has been told.

About 35,000 children were placed in a network of reformatories, industrial schools and workhouses up to the 1980s.

More than 2,000 told the Commission to Inquire Into Child Abuse they suffered physical and sexual abuse while there.

The leader of Ireland’s Labour Party said the report contains accounts of children being flogged.

Eamon Gilmore told the Irish Parliament that the report will shock many people when it is published.

The Irish Prime Minister Brian Cowen said: “We are all agreed that it is appalling the vista that will emerge in respect of a bygone day that is no longer with us, thankfully.”

The BBC’s Mark Simpson said the inquiry was expected to criticise the Church’s handling of sex abuse complaints.

The institutions housed abandoned or neglected children, but courts also sent those guilty of truancy and petty crime.

Unmarried mothers were also sent to institutions known as Magdalene Laundries, many by their own families.

Hundreds of the victims moved away from Ireland once they left the care homes and went to live in the UK.

Many of those who are alleged to have carried out the abuse are now dead

Apology

The commission was established in 2000 after the then Taoiseach Bertie Ahern issued an apology on behalf of the state to the victims of child abuse.

A government compensation scheme was also established. It has already paid out almost one billion euros in compensation and legal fees to 12,500 people.

Led by Mr Justice Sean Ryan, the commission’s report is believed to be five volumes and 2,500 pages long.

Thousands of abused men and women testified to the commission, which was set up after a television series revealed the scale of the abuse.

Journalist Mary Raftery, who was behind the series, said the extent and depravity of the abuse was “profoundly shocking”.

“It is off the scale in terms of anything we have any knowledge of or any ability to deal with, particularly, as it was perpetrated, in the main, by members of religious orders,” she said.

Ms Raftery said the children ended up in “houses of horror” and were essentially locked up until they were 16.

“They emerged deeply disturbed and damaged and so many of them immediately emigrated,” she said.

"They felt their country had abandoned them as well as everything else, as well as their religion, that just stripped them bare of any kind of support.

“It is an absolutely shameful episode in our history.”

The allegations include sexual abuse and repeated beating of boys and girls with a leather strap.

Some punishments were said to be handed out for talking at mealtimes or writing left handed.

More than 100 institutions run by religious orders have been examined and the inquiry is expected to produce specific findings against a number of facilities.

Another major report is due next month on abuse by Catholic priests working in parish churches around Dublin.

The Archbishop of Dublin, the Most Reverend Diarmuid Martin, warned last month that it would “shock us all.”

Thanks (in a way) for posting this - scandals in Church or nation lose some of their power to shock, if that Church or nation examines itself before its external critics do so. By any standard, that little lot puts the Church in a very bad light; if only it would undertake some kind of “internal audit”, some kind of examination of itself, before those “outside” it do so.​

The slow drip of such things may be worse for the Church than if the Church had tried to clear away its more revolting skeletons in one fell swoop If they keep surfacing like this, how many more of them are there to be exposed to the light of day ? And what sort of thing is the Church, if so much as half of that report is true ?

That said, some of these things may be evils only by modern standards - but hardly all.

 

[Detales]

Dear Mickey Finn,

When I show some of the things that I read on here to friends, the single comment that comes from nearly all of them is “Don’t these people read their own history???” May I therefore refer you to illuminations and historic records of the unspeakable horrors commited on Catholics by Catholics in the name of their anthropomorphic god. Try even to guess what some of the instruments could possibly be used for, if your stomach allows you the viewing of the simpler ones being applied. Their actual use make sicking dogs on someone look like a vacation. If that doesn’t work, I will be happy to supply you with contacts who were present for the niceties inflicted on Protestants in Ireland by Catholics, and vice versa. Please wake up to where your beleifs come from. You are too comfortable, perhaps, for your own good?

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Regardless, it’s time to “clean house” so to speak. Every priest, bishop, and cardinal involved in abuse or covering up abuse needs to be removed from their position immediately. It’s time for the Church to do something drastic regarding this, something for the world to see. Otherwise, they are going to lose a lot of members who do not want to be complicit in supporting those who were a part of any abuse.

One tiny hitch in what sounds like a very good idea: we can’t do a thing; good or bad. The power needed for that is up at the top - pew-squatters don’t have it. Which prevents some injustices, but makes others possible.​

IMNSHO, the Pope ought to excommunicate every single cleric & religious, however high up, for the things you mention. Removing them would be something, & it’s needed - but it’s not enough.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

All of these abusers and their superiors who simply moved them around only to abuse again and again and again should be turned over to the law for their just punishment and excommunicated. I certainly don’t want any of them in my parish nor do I want to have to support them in any way, shape or form now or during their retirement. I am so disgusted even if “only” one out of ten complaints are truthful. That is still too many. Repulsive.

This may be of interest to any sceptics out there, FWIW:​

• [Molesting and Raping Children for Decades, then Covering it Up - A Pagan's Blog (Molesting and Raping Children for Decades, then Covering it Up - A Pagan's Blog)

 

[Norminha]

My God is the same God of the Irish and of the whole world. That God became man for the love of us all and took to the cross all the abuse of young and adult, male and female. It is on the cross where He asked the Father to forgive the abusers for they did not know what they did. He is God and I’m the creature, therefore, I don’t understand the reason of so much evil. All I understand is on the cross there was the Son of God and Man, He knew what He said and He died forgiving
I also know that He died for all the sinners of the world. My job is to pray for the abused and abusers as my Lord and Savior did for me.
When we make it to heaven, He’ll make us anew.

 

[ConfusedTim]

I wondered about teh cultural aspect of this behaviour. Is it more prevalent amongst Anglo/Celts than amongst other cultures e.g. are such abuses alo prevalent in South America, Phillipines, etc?

 

[Detales]

Norminha,

Forgiveness is wonderful and necessary. One can’t lovingly go through life bearing a grudge. What we are primarily concerned with here, I would think, is an assesment of how things work in order to allow or prevent such phenomenon in our or any church or institution. I would also think that if you have children it would be your concern to watch out for their safety. It is also a concern that it is appearant from some evidence that a proportion of the offenders were protected from scrutiny and from corrective action. This means that more children were at risk.

As I have said, this is a “Catholic” problem institutionally, but it is a problem not restricted to the Church. As far as the Church covered up actions sinful by its own definitions, where does that leave us all as being expected to trust such “leaders” not only with ourselves, but with our children? Insofar as churchmen and women commited such acts, being representatives of the Church and its dogmas, they have done damage, serious damage, to the reputation and credibility of the Church as an institutuion.

What is further disturbing is that the appologies offered are clearly insufficient compensation to those effected. Those appologies also came only after evasive action on the part of the Church. I’m not saying that others, even I, are or am without sin. But if there is a code we are to live up to, why would those promulgating that code be exempt from consequences? Yes, the Universe is just, and we will all recieve our just deserts. But that does not mean we are to be stupid sheep or pious cows. We have gifts to use and develop. The cheif of these is Love.

In the discovered and reported cases the Church has not acted dissimilarly from political or financial figures who have wronged the public. They are covering the part they sit on. Who wouldn’t, to some extent at least? Remember, it is the most entrenched serial killers who tend to have the highest self esteem.

But we need to stop looking at these things in the context of a church or a government or a social group. These are behaviors that, among others and in many forms, effect all of us in the world. We need to explore a method of understanding ourselves that is not falible in the way that religion clearly is, despite its high ideals. If we look at a generalized human problem in the terms of a particualr faith, again we have dissention and wars. We have to learn to deal in Universal truths, not beliefs systems that purport to be so.

Perhaps there will come a day when we worship the God that IS, not the one we make up in ignorance thruogh politics and greed. We will not have to call that way by any religious name, it will just be that way we live, in communion with God.

 

[Alethiaphile]

When we make it to heaven, He’ll make us anew.

No, our task is to start being made anew here and now. And that means taking the right attitude when shameful scandals like this are brought to light.

 

[Alethiaphile]

Thankfully, Pope Benedict is very serious about protecting the innocent from such evils.

What makes you think that? When he was Cardinal Ratzinger, he was part of the power structure in the Vatican that tried to keep a lid on these scandals.

And the last I heard, Cardinal Law is still a Cardinal, and is still celebrating Masses in one of the four pilgrimage churches of Rome. That, to me, is not being “serious.”

 

[ConfusedTim]

i feel really mad at the fact that the “Christian Brothers” knew what was going on and did nothing about it. How could they know about sexual and physical abuse of Children and not do anything to stop it.

 

[Tybourne]

We have also had other scandals, which haven’t made the news to the point that the Church scandals have: the Native American children taken from their parents and put into boarding schools (who were physically disciplined if they spoke their native language)

This is quite right and the media in Canada, at least, have woken up to the scandal (literally, a stumbling block) of the treatment of North American First Nations children in Catholic residential schools.

Someone mentioned the issue of culture. The currents that flowed through to the point of this horrendous abuse need to be traced. For example, St John Baptist de la Sales, founder of the Christian Brothers, is the patron saint of teachers. Yet, if you read his pedagogical method it seems to me to rely on an extreme distancing of teacher from student that, in the wrong hands, could easily lead to children being objectified. In contrast, St John Bosco, the founder of the Salesians, ruled out ‘hateful punishments’ from his method and sought to win his students over to goodness through love, exhortation and advice. We have different streams of thought and practise in Catholic education that need to be examined carefully. This scandal didn’t come from nowhere. We need to look carefully at our history, and particularly at the issue of clericalism.

One final point- the problem here is not that the Church shot herself in the foot. To take this position is to fall into the trap of putting the reputation of the Church above the lives of innocent children. Rather, the problem here is that mistaken currents of culture, theology and spirituality allowed people to engage in evil practises without being dealt with appropriately. Our Lord’s admonition stands as a solemn warning:

"And he said to his disciples, “Temptations to sin are sure to come; but woe to him by whom they come! It would be better for him if a millstone were hung round his neck and he were cast into the sea, than that he should cause one of these little ones to sin” (St Luke 17:1-2, RSV)

 

[Cinette]

Yeah right. For every money hungry welfare bum trying to line his pockets, there are probably 10 “good Catholics” who concealed the matter “for the good of the church.”

You may be right.

I do not think this is something which can be attributed to the Catholic Church as such. This is a human thing and occurs everywhere. I believe that at different times in the history of mankind there have been attitudes attributable to the mentality of the times. This is terrible and certainly if people in the Church are responsible it must be exposed and the people punished. Compansation in the form of money is not the answer I would think.

I wonder what will be revealed about “our times” in years to come? What with the drugs and the sex - sex is in our face all the time. We see young girls as young as 12 admitting on Television that they practice “oral sex” and people like Oprah offers their stories as “entertainment” on her shows. Can you imagine what is not being revealed at the present day? The paedophile rings which are active on the Internet. Children are being abused and spoiled.

I am of celtic French descent and grew up in South Africa where I attended Convent schools. Most of the nuns were Irish and they saved my sanity. They loved us and made us very happy. I always say that I have an Irish rib because they were such good caretakers. I criticise the religious instruction we received but then that is probably the way it was done then. Today we need more apologetics. We need to know how to defend our Faith. I wish we had apologetics then. Anyway I drifted from the Church for 27 years but found my way back and perhaps it is partly due to the early religious instruction I received when I was young.

My husband and I attend daily Mass at a Chapel in a nearby Convent and I have got to know the nuns who are mostly Irish. Most have retired. They are so devoted. Even though they still visit their families about every 3 years or so in Ireland they come back here and will spend their last days here. There is a frail care centre run by nuns for the old nuns and it is beautiful and there is such devotion.

I am so sorry for those who suffered abuse. I will pray always for them and I do pray every day for the youth and ask God to “deliver them from evil”. The media will have a field day because bashing of the Catholic Church is a favourite activity of theirs. If they can’t find something to write about there is always the CC.

God bless us all
Cinette

As

 

[Cinette]

St Francis,

I agree with much of what you said. One of our difficulties, and I have attempted to point to it in my two prvious posts in this thread, is that we often make the mistake of labeling a problem as solely the fault of the institiution in which it occurs. This is reasonable up to a point, but ultimately we are dealing with human nature itself, and the cultivation of its potentials in individuals, or the lack thereof.

Certainly we had different public standards at one time. But we have the option now of looking at matters in a broader context.We are bolder than we have ever been. One good thing in our times is that we do not hesitate to be transparent. There are so many scandals in every walk of life. (Right now I am reading about arms deals all over the world - yesterday I heard an interview with a person who has written several books on the subject and he said that arms deal abuse accounts for 40% of dirty money in the world) It is because, I think, of the alleged high spiritual standars of the perpatrators in religious institutionsThis is especially terrible. Priests and nuns whom I have known and met throughout my life have been essentially very self-sacrificing and dedicated. Giving up good careers to dedicate their lives to God. I am aware that in times past there was a tendency to seek religious life to escape poverty and not necessarily due to vocations. of any kind, that we find those offenses particularly abhorent. Absolutely - had I been a victim I think I would have gone off my head. Such abuse is also an abuse of power and trust and such people should be severely punished because they are criminals. Some offenses might happen in more “ordianary” familial or other situations that never had a claim of deific sanction as their cheif reason for being and therefore appear to have a less far reaching implication.

Insofar as it was an act of complicity of the institution to hide or mitigate claims of abuse by whatever means, those institutions are also at fault. But this is why it is necessary to take such behabviors away from the labeling of them in terms of only the institutions. It must be seen as a human problem occuring irrespective of a particular institution.you make a very good point We can litanize other churches than our own, and private institutions or public as well. But what are the common factors in these behaviors? Where do they stem from? how does the structure of an institution or a social unit faciltate of prevent such abuse? We could behoove ourselves to look at a larger, more inclusive picture, as could the press, in order to get to the root of this continuing drama and stem it where it starts.

Let me share my experience. We immigrated when I was 6 years old and my sister 5. As both my parents worked they placed us in a Convent school. We were learning to speak English at the time and were out of our depth. The experience was not a very good one.

The nuns had little girls and boys in junior school to take care of and teach. Some children were abandoned or came from divorced families. The nuns also took care of new born babies and toddlers as well as old men and women. There was also a hostel for school leavers. The nuns had their hands full. The teachers were all nuns. However during break and after school the seniors would keep us in order and without going into too much details these seniors made us suffer - in order to make us obey and keep quiet they often used cruel tactics. There was never any sexual abuse but they would make us sit on benches, fold our arms and close our eyes for what appeared to us long periods of time. These so-called seniors were only about 13/14 years old themselves.

There was one senior who was particularly nice to me and my sister. She would hug us and give sweets and was a great comfort. Years later we re-established contact with her especially my sister who went to live in English and this person (we shall call her Ann) would spend week-ends and holidays with my sister and her family. Ann was a very cheerful and sunny personality but at the same time often depressed. Her big problem in life was her parents divorce - she often mentioned it. She had twin brother and sister - the brother tried to commit suicide several times and I think finally succeeded. The other twin had 4 children and her marriage ended in divorce - a lot of hardship. Ann had an abortion, always depressed and one day she jumped off a building to her death.

We were only at that school for 18 months and the school itself was not bad but the nuns did have their hands full. The children were a product of the war and there was a lot of divorced and single parents.

There are many things that contributed to all the pain and suffering. Ann always spoke well of the nuns and would go back and visit when she eventually began to work. It was the divorce (and who knows what other symptoms arose from that) which caused her the greatest pain.

God bless

 

[NPC]

Apart from the shock of this report, I am very surprised by some of the things I am reading here - suggestions that this is “news”, that the report is exaggerating the number of “true” abuse cases, that the Christian Brothers (and other orders) were not aware of the abuse.

This is most certainly not old news - indeed, it won’t be for many years. One hundred and fifty years after the Great Famine and we still can’t get our heads around the horrors of it. The litany of abuse in these institutions which were rotten to the core is, I imagine, the most horrific chapter in the history of twentieth century Ireland. I used to be of the view which some people have expressed, that there are many false claims from people who wanted to make money. Granted, I’m sure there were people who “chanced their arm”, but I am more and more of the view that we will never get the full story. We will never hear from the children who died in these institutions after been beaten to death by sometimes one, sometimes gangs of religious. I heard one lady speak on television of the horrors she experienced as a child. She has deliberately withheld some accounts of her experiences - both for herself and because she doesn’t believe that Irish society could deal with the full truth - and I believe her. From what I’ve heard so far about the report - and that is only a small fraction of what’s contained in it - I am absolutely disgusted. The whole country is disgusted, and not just with the religious orders, but with the department of education, doctors, psychiatrists, and every area of Irish society which knew what was going on.

To illustrate just how corrupt the reformatory and education system was in Ireland, just think that in a country of 3.5 million in the twentieth century, we had as many children in these institutions as Britain which had a population of about 50 million. Why were alarm bells not ringing? This just doesn’t make sense. Why was there such a disproportionate number of children in these places compared to Britain? To find the answer, look at the crimes these children were supposed to have committed: wandering, begging, poverty. The lady to whom I referred earlier said that in the case of the nuns in the institution in which she was placed the nuns had a list of about six “crimes” and one crime would be chosen per day and that would be put on the report for the department of education.

The excuses offered by religious orders for the poverty which the children suffered in these institutions (i.e. that they were under-funded) have been rubbished by the report. There was sufficient money available but it went to the coffers of the orders. An institution in Dublin run by the Christian Brothers had hundreds of boys. The kitchen for the boys had one cook - an elderly brother who was helped by a number of the boys. On the other hand, the kitchen for the brothers had two chefs, employed by the brothers, maids and also some of the boys from the school. It should have been the other way around!

Of course, as I said, the buck does not stop with the religious orders. The department of education did not say anything as it would be challenging the status quo - i.e. it would be questioning the excessively high position of the Catholic Church in Ireland. On the one hand, I can see the truth in this, but on the other hand, these were children. How could one turn a blind eye - I can’t get my head around it. How did all the physical abuse escape the attention of the health system. I mean, the doctors were not treating cuts and grazes - these are a reality of childhood. They were treating severe bruising, cuts which (by their position on the body) could not have been the result of a fall, and broken bones. My own father attended a Christian Brothers school in the 1970’s and while I cannot comprehend the horrors he experienced, I know they were miniscule compared to what children in the reformatories experienced. He has told me of boys being sent to hospital with broken ribs, the result of a beating from none other than the school principal in at least one case. He told me that his Spanish book would probably still open at page sixteen because in all his years they never got past it - the teacher spent his time beating the boys. Granted, not all of his teachers were the same - he speaks very highly of some of the brothers. Also, remember that abuse (especially physical) was not just limited to religious - countless lay teachers used the leather liberally. The other plain fact is that everyone in the Ireland knew what was happening in these institutions - if they were such a good place for the children to be, why did parents threaten to send their children there if they misbehaved? When the children were eventually released from these places, they were abandoned not just by the state, but by society - they were less than third-class citizens. Do you think that if these institutions were doing their job that people on the outside would have treated the children as the scum of the earth?

I could go on for so long - I am disgusted beyond words. Indeed I believe the victims who say that words will never be able to express the horrors they witnessed and experienced. The report has given them a voice which was silenced by systematic cover-ups both within the schools and without. Regrettably, the brothers, sisters and lay people who carried out the atrocities and destroyed so many lives will not be prosecuted (not as a result of the report anyway). We have to stop making excuses and support attempts to have this filth removed from the Church. Finally, I can’t help but think about Blessed Edmund Ignatius Rice, founder of the Christian Brothers, and Sr Catherine McAuley, foundress of the Sisters of Mercy - these people dedicated their lives to God by caring for His children. I wonder what they would be thinking. I’m sure their hearts would be broken.

 

[Cinette]

Hi NPC!

I can understand your horror at these stories and your attitude that this must not be covered up but exposed in totality. On the other hand you obviously feel the pain of one who loves the Church and experienced the self-sacrificing and love of good religious and priest. It is so unfair because people will judge ALL priest by those bad apples.

When the abuse first broke out some years ago I felt the pain also. It was unbearable.

As for the children I just cannot imagine what it is to be in their shoes. Children need love so much and on top of that to be abused and cruelly treated!! I read a true account of one who experienced terrible abuse for years in an orphanage in England and how after many years she was able to get her life together and later sued the orphanage and social services. The more these things are exposed the more unlikely these things will occur but you never know.

There are a lot of evil people in our world. Just look at that those men in Austria who sexually abused their daughters and kept them prisioner. We should all be forever alert to what goes on around us. One never can tell who might be suffering and needing our assistance.

We need to pray a great deal for children, that they will be safe and delivered from evil.

 

[NPC]

For example, St John Baptist de la Sales, founder of the Christian Brothers, is the patron saint of teachers. Yet, if you read his pedagogical method it seems to me to rely on an extreme distancing of teacher from student that, in the wrong hands, could easily lead to children being objectified…

Just on a point of information, lest there be any confusion, the brothers founded by St Jean-Baptiste de la Salle are not the same Christian Brothers referred to in the report into child abuse in Ireland. They are known as the De la Salle Brothers, but in the United States have become known as the Christian Brothers, because his order was originally called “The Institute of Brothers of the Christian Schools”. The Christian Brothers in Ireland who established (and continue to run) hundreds of schools there and abroad were founded by Blessed Edmund Ignatius Rice. He was an Irishman from County Kilkenny, and before founding the Christian Brothers, he followed Cork-woman Nano Nagle’s example (she had founded the Presentation Sisters) by founding the Presentation Brothers.

 

[dixieagle]

To illustrate just how corrupt the reformatory and education system was in Ireland, just think that in a country of 3.5 million in the twentieth century, we had as many children in these institutions as Britain which had a population of about 50 million. Why were alarm bells not ringing? This just doesn’t make sense. Why was there such a disproportionate number of children in these places compared to Britain? To find the answer, look at the crimes these children were supposed to have committed: wandering, begging, poverty. The lady to whom I referred earlier said that in the case of the nuns in the institution in which she was placed the nuns had a list of about six “crimes” and one crime would be chosen per day and that would be put on the report for the department of education.

The excuses offered by religious orders for the poverty which the children suffered in these institutions (i.e. that they were under-funded) have been rubbished by the report. There was sufficient money available but it went to the coffers of the orders. An institution in Dublin run by the Christian Brothers had hundreds of boys. The kitchen for the boys had one cook - an elderly brother who was helped by a number of the boys. On the other hand, the kitchen for the brothers had two chefs, employed by the brothers, maids and also some of the boys from the school. It should have been the other way around!

Of course, as I said, the buck does not stop with the religious orders. The department of education did not say anything as it would be challenging the status quo - i.e. it would be questioning the excessively high position of the Catholic Church in Ireland. On the one hand, I can see the truth in this, but on the other hand, these were children. How could one turn a blind eye - I can’t get my head around it. How did all the physical abuse escape the attention of the health system. I mean, the doctors were not treating cuts and grazes - these are a reality of childhood. They were treating severe bruising, cuts which (by their position on the body) could not have been the result of a fall, and broken bones. My own father attended a Christian Brothers school in the 1970’s and while I cannot comprehend the horrors he experienced, I know they were miniscule compared to what children in the reformatories experienced. He has told me of boys being sent to hospital with broken ribs, the result of a beating from none other than the school principal in at least one case. He told me that his Spanish book would probably still open at page sixteen because in all his years they never got past it - the teacher spent his time beating the boys. Granted, not all of his teachers were the same - he speaks very highly of some of the brothers. Also, remember that abuse (especially physical) was not just limited to religious - countless lay teachers used the leather liberally. The other plain fact is that everyone in the Ireland knew what was happening in these institutions - if they were such a good place for the children to be, why did parents threaten to send their children there if they misbehaved? When the children were eventually released from these places, they were abandoned not just by the state, but by society - they were less than third-class citizens. Do you think that if these institutions were doing their job that people on the outside would have treated the children as the scum of the earth?

I could go on for so long - I am disgusted beyond words. Indeed I believe the victims who say that words will never be able to express the horrors they witnessed and experienced. The report has given them a voice which was silenced by systematic cover-ups both within the schools and without. Regrettably, the brothers, sisters and lay people who carried out the atrocities and destroyed so many lives will not be prosecuted (not as a result of the report anyway). We have to stop making excuses and support attempts to have this filth removed from the Church. Finally, I can’t help but think about Blessed Edmund Ignatius Rice, founder of the Christian Brothers, and Sr Catherine McAuley, foundress of the Sisters of Mercy - these people dedicated their lives to God by caring for His children. I wonder what they would be thinking. I’m sure their hearts would be broken.

As someone who has visited Ireland many times and loves it, and whose grandparents emigrated from Ireland, this story is horrifying beyond words to me.

How could anyone have believed for a moment that these atrocities were - in ANY way - what Jesus would have wanted for His children?

No wonder so many in Ireland have left the Church in disgust, and the number of priests has dropped drastically. What a horrible example of institutions (Church, government) that should have been protecting the vulnerable failing miserably, and willfully.

 

[Miserissima]

It is a tragic thing that any such abuses occurred. Yet I would also caution against accepting the “official” numbers as being the truth.

Ever since the beginning of the abuse scandals in the US, people have been lining up for pay-offs. There is little doubt that at least some of them are lying in order to make money. And it is probable that it is happening here as well.

I would venture to say that this certainly predates the current US Scandals, and hardly anyone is lining up for a handout. If you’re looking for numbers from records that were kept, may I suggest the resources from my earlier post on a related topic:

It’s not only the Magdalen Laundries, or certain orders of nuns who took on a task for which they were unqualified. It was the whole movement of Industrial Schools which became pits of despair.

If you read, "

Do Penance or Perish" and “Suffer the Little Children”, you’ll see that many of these institutions were also Protestant. These were formed because of a societal need, not because an order of nuns wanted to make money from suffering. That having been said, there are many horrible atrocities that were perprtrated and buried.

Thee homes were initially incepted for the reform of “wanton women” and to prevent STDs from reaching soldiers. Corrupt people took that excuse and ran with it, taking in children for free labor and other horrible reasons. At times, women were given up to these institutions for the wrong reasons, such as to avoid scandal, and others became institutionalized and unable to live in the outside world. Young boys were [allegedly] abused by brothers and priests, as well.

Now, when the government(s) became aware of such abuses, they often did nothing. Sometimes they didn’t intervene because they didn’t want to overstep their bounds and argue with thee religious communities, and sometimes it was because they had no idea how to go about social reform. In fact, Father Flanagan was against the system of that period, and designed his dream, Boys Town, as its antithesis.

I strongly encourage you to pick up the books I mentioned. They’ll help you see things in a more balanced light. Did the church leaders drop the ball? Absolutely. Did the government sytems abandon people to a corrupt system which they helped to create? Certainly. Which only leaves the question: What can we do about it today?

 

[ckempston]

The devil in the last days will be attacking the Church and the sheep will scatter. You seem as if you are one of those scattering sheep I’m afraid. I pray for you and for myself that I cling to the Shepherd. We all need prayer in these times. We all need Christ.

This is not the devil attacking “the church” this is “the church” doing the devil’s work for him.

I haven’t scattered, and I am clinging to the Shepherd: his name is Jesus Christ.

 

[Cinette]

As someone who has visited Ireland many times and loves it, and whose grandparents emigrated from Ireland, this story is horrifying beyond words to me.

How could anyone have believed for a moment that these atrocities were - in ANY way - what Jesus would have wanted for His children?

No wonder so many in Ireland have left the Church in disgust, and the number of priests has dropped drastically. What a horrible example of institutions (Church, government) that should have been protecting the vulnerable failing miserably, and willfully.

I would hesitate to pass judgement like that on the Church.

The Church is both devine and human and the devil is always stalking.

I recounted my experience as a very small child in an earlier posting but in that case the nuns were not to blame - it was the consequence of a wounded society and there was no physical abuse.

Apart from that I have wonderful memories of the Irish nuns throughout my school life. As for priests, those with whom I had contact were mostly wonderful hard-working and dedicated men. I feel sad and as I said I suffered when the news of abuse broke out. I know that there were people who lumped all priests in the same category forgetting that there is a majority of good and upright priests. So many highly educated men who could make a lot of money in the corporate world have given up everything to serve God and His Church.

At the same time I hope that all abuse is exposed and those responsible severely punished. No child should endure abuse of any kind.