Irish abuse report is 'shocking'

[NDN]

My God is the same God of the Irish and of the whole world. That God became man for the love of us all and took to the cross all the abuse of young and adult, male and female. It is on the cross where He asked the Father to forgive the abusers for they did not know what they did. He is God and I’m the creature, therefore, I don’t understand the reason of so much evil. All I understand is on the cross there was the Son of God and Man, He knew what He said and He died forgiving
I also know that He died for all the sinners of the world. My job is to pray for the abused and abusers as my Lord and Savior did for me.
When we make it to heaven, He’ll make us anew.

Great answer!

 

[pnewton]

it is nice to forgive and it is nice to apologize for the Church, but what can Catholics do to prevent these type of scandals from happening again.

The only successful way to stop all abuse and scandals is to withdraw from the business of charitable acts, especially toward children. Let the state, or someone else, or no one deal with the problems of society and with draw to a state of prayer and not action.

 

[Cinette]

The only successful way to stop all abuse and scandals is to withdraw from the business of charitable acts, especially toward children. Let the state, or someone else, or no one deal with the problems of society and with draw to a state of prayer and not action.

You are joking of course!

Voltaire, who was atheist and hated the Church, once said “No institution has given more or done more for the poor than the Catholic Church. No matter how hard others have tried nobody has been able to outdo the CC - nobody has done more for charity.” (I am paraphrasing of course).

He also said that if you lie enough something is bound to stick.

The Church has many enemies.

In August the Pope has declared “The Year of the Priests”. We should value, love and support our Priests. If a Priest steps out of line we should challenge them.

 

[Cinette]

No it does not make it okay. And what people are saying is not an excuse but just a statement of fact that we all belong to the sinfull human race. Yes we are called to live by higher standards but it is also a reality that we all fail (some more so than others).

Let those without sin cast the first stone.

Yes and no. To say that happened a long time ago is to put things in perspective, to show that perhaps there has been a change, albeit small, towards the good.

Still we cannot brush off these incidents with such a statement. We are called to acknowledge our sins and repent. Sometime repentance takes time.

If they are not excuses then we must keep reiterating them.

Another important thing we must remember is that the Church is here to preach the Truth even if some of her members fail miserably.

There has got to be ZERO TOLERANCE. We cannot allow such things to happen.

At my previous Parish the Priest was also a Psychlogist and he trained many parishioners in counselling - they would also do a course at the university. A Counselling Centre was set up to serve the entire community, not just the Parish. This was a very good thing.

 

[Cinette]

I was abused by a priest and my mother forced me to go to confession. Guess who was the only priest in my parish I had to go to confession to ?
But I also have a comment : Sexual abuse is the only crime I know of who, when declared a crime, was also retro-active. I was quite shocked when I heard on TV a priest coming out of a court-room, saying to the crowd of parishioners who were applauding his conviction : I agree it was a sin, but it was not a crime. I am not in any way excusing him, but it got me to thinking :What if I am doing something now which will be declared a crime in ten years and be retro-active ? This could happen to all of us who comment on homosexuality if it comes under the list of hate-crimes law .

In my humble opinion, a Priest who sexually abuses someone* IS *guilty of a CRIME and it is a mortal sin!

Priests have a duty and a responsibility to teach faith and morals. They are there to support us, to care for our souls and to teach. Any priest that is unfaithfull to his vows is commiting a CRIME. Any adult that abuses is also guilty of a crime but more so a Priest because of his vows and his responsibility and his position of trust. God expects more from his representatives here on earth.

You have a point in regard to comments on homosexuality. Surely if we express the truth we cannot be accused of a hate-crime. Hmmmm food for thought!

 

[pnewton]

You are joking of course!

It is important to remember that the only way to avoid doing anything harmful is to do nothing at all. The more we do the more likely some abuse will occur at some turn. The sheer size and scope of the Church and the amount of service done will mean somewhere some wolves will use us as a way to find victims. Facts, statistics and logic are cold counsel though if you are one of the victims.

 

[Cinette]

It is important to remember that the only way to avoid doing anything harmful is to do nothing at all. The more we do the more likely some abuse will occur at some turn. The sheer size and scope of the Church and the amount of service done will mean somewhere some wolves will use us as a way to find victims. Facts, statistics and logic are cold counsel though if you are one of the victims.

Behaviour patterns change over time just like fashion. The environment changes.

Today, our children are more streetwise and knowledgeable of sex for instance. Television and Movies serve to “educate” them from an early age. Children are more outspoken. They are more exposed to things.

It can be a very bad thing but it can also be good. Parents have more of a challenge nowadays.

Whereas in years gone by children had more “respect” or should I say they were “scared” of speaking up, this has now changed. Children then could be more easily intimidated. Therefore I feel it would be more difficult for an abusive adult to convince a child to “co-operate” with the abuse.

We all know that the abusers are most times a parent, a family member or a family friend. Those who are abused simetimes end up by being abusers themselves.

Democracy has contributed largely to embolden people.

 

[benedictus2]

it is nice to forgive and it is nice to apologize for the Church, but what can Catholics do to prevent these type of scandals from happening again. we can’t remain silent, because that is part of covering up. sometimes forgiving and apologizing isn’t enough.

Vigilance. Report them straight away if you know this to be so. And never rest until some action has been taken.

 

[benedictus2]

It is important to remember that the only way to avoid doing anything harmful is to do nothing at all. The more we do the more likely some abuse will occur at some turn. The sheer size and scope of the Church and the amount of service done will mean somewhere some wolves will use us as a way to find victims. Facts, statistics and logic are cold counsel though if you are one of the victims.

Christ said allow the tares to grow with the wheat. You are suggesting to pull out the wheat along with the tares.

 

[Kwashic]

Although sexual abuse is obviously, in any form at all, completely abhorrent and inexcusable I would like to make a little point here.

These claims, as I have heard them today on UK news, date back to the 1920’s. I don’t know what it was like in the US but here up until, I believe, the 1970’s corporal punishment was the done thing in schools. Children were caned, hit with a leather strap, had blackboard chalk and sometimes even the erasers (wooden ones!) thrown at them. Parents routinely disciplined their own with slippers and belts and it was a completely acceptable way of dealing with a errant child.

The claims I have heard today are unacceptable by today’s standards, and quite rightly so, but to make out that the Catholic Church was the ONLY authority to be doing this is disingenuous. (And I realise ‘2 wrongs don’t make a right’ but the point is that that was the way that society at that time expected you to discipline your child.)

Our news reports here have lead almost all day with this - although important it is not the only important thing going on. And I’d bet that many Church of England orphanages had the same problem, only its not as ‘sexy’ (for want of a better word) to report those - say the words ‘Catholic Church’ and ‘abuse’ together and watch your ratings soar.

I agree with you. If they sent delinquents to such places you can imagine the pressure on those running them in trying to control them. You would have to whip them to make them grow up. We grew up being whipped in the late 80’s at high school too. I am sure they were not electrocuted or hung from their tongues in the blazing sun. Corporal punishment was allowed then and my child still gets the odd threat of it today, but she loves me and i love her. I hardly have to punish her because she got the odd pinch or two when she was a rowdy toddler, but is now a sweet little lady who is disciplined. something which today’s children who have never been chided cant achieve.

As for the SEXUAL abuse, I cant understand people who claim to have been abused but chose to keep quiet like they were in some kind of cult organization. The beauty of the Catholic church is you can leave any time and you can freely report your priest to the newspapers and there wont be men with dark glasses following you. So why did they keep quiet till they are old men? If a priest dared to touch me the wrong way I would punch him across the face and warm him that if i ever saw him with a young boy again he would answer to me and then the police. Many are clearly liars, even though many are of course telling the truth.

 

[Daz]

I don’t know if anyone has already reproduced this, I have tried to keep track of this thread since I started it but I haven’t read all of it, but Fr Tim Finigan (he who suffered the infamous Tablet hatchet job) has written a very thoughtful response to this sorry story.

Please read the whole comment here:“It Would Be Better For Him…”

Our Lord said what needs to be said in the case of one who commits scandal against children, let alone sodomy:

**It were better for him that a millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of the sea. (Matt 18.6)

**
I am reminded of the heartfelt words of Pope Benedict at his Homily at the Mass for bishops, Seminarians and Novices during his visit to Australia last year:

"Here I would like to pause to acknowledge the shame which we have all felt as a result of the sexual abuse of minors by some clergy and religious in this country. Indeed, I am deeply sorry for the pain and suffering the victims have endured, and I assure them that, as their Pastor, I too share in their suffering. These misdeeds, which constitute so grave a betrayal of trust, deserve unequivocal condemnation. They have caused great pain and have damaged the Church’s witness. I ask all of you to support and assist your Bishops, and to work together with them in combating this evil. Victims should receive compassion and care, and those responsible for these evils must be brought to justice. It is an urgent priority to promote a safer and more wholesome environment, especially for young people."

 

[JosieElaine]

But the point is, dear Kwashik, that in the 1940’s and 1950’, nobody believed you, not even your parents. The Catholic priest was a God and could do no wrong. And like I said, it was NOT a crime then, only a Sin. Nobody went to jail for a sin. Now, you can report them, but back then, it was hopeless.

 

[pnewton]

Christ said allow the tares to grow with the wheat. You are suggesting to pull out the wheat along with the tares.

I am not suggesting that we stop all charity. I am only saying that stopping all charity is the only way to be sure we prevent any future abuse. My opinion is we accept the reality that abusers will exist among us. While we do what we can to screen people and see punishment is extended to criminal activity, we stop worrying about the hype surrounding every report.

 

[cknick]

Mrs Miggins

I want to leave clearly expressed here that in any way, I agree with any type of abuse to anyone, specially sexual abuse from our priests. Our Holy Father when visited USA said, those abuses will not be tolerated anymore.

Our pastor once told me…“Gone is the day when we can just hop in the car and go for a drive with any kid…it just can’t happen. We used to have the freedom to interact normally, and recreate with the flock and we can’t any longer.”

Not all abuse is extinguished though. Far from it. It may be less obvious, but it is still there.

 

[CelticColleen]

It is sick and disgusting for people to attempt to say that the numbers are possibly inaccurate, due to people ‘in it for the money’. In fact it is the other way around actually. I think that the numbers are probably much higher, but many of the victims are to ashamed to admit the abuse, or too disturbed to go through the pain once more.
I am deeply ashamed to be Catholic, and from Ireland, a country where the Catholics were allowed have their wicked ways.
The sad thing is that there are good, kind priests out there, they want to do good, they were doing good and were horrified by the abuse in front of them. One of them, famously tried his best to highlight the problem…
irishcentral.com/news/Boys-Town-founder-Fr-Flanagan-warned-Irish-Church-about-abuse-46390952.html

 

[JosieElaine]

The worst thing about the sexual abuse is that the Church itself kept covering it up and just moved priests around so they could abuse a new batch of kids. The excuse I am hearing is that they did this to protect the Church. Is the Church more vulnerable than a 7 year-old boy ? Is the Church so fragile that it will fall apart at the first hint of scandal ? If Catholics really, really believed, from the bottom of their heart, that the Church is divinely instituted by Christ and that the gates fo Hades shall not prevail against it, would they be so afraid ? Does God need the sacrifice of thousands of innocent children in order to keep his Church afloat ? “If anyone scandalizes one of these little ones that belong to me, better would it be for him to put a stone around his neck and throw himself at the bottom of the sea”. No tolerance and no political correctness from Jesus here !

 

[cknick]

Until we extinguish behaviors, such as conspiracy of silence, in the church as a whole, these issues will continue to occur.

 

[pnewton]

Until we extinguish behaviors, such as conspiracy of silence, in the church as a whole, these issues will continue to occur.

I’ve got news for you. They will continue to to occur anyway this side of heaven. Nothing will change that short of taking an extreme action like never helping anyone. Using large text doesn’t make your appear more correct. When one has something of value, they do not need to resort to such gimmicks.

 

[JosieElaine]

Priests are men and men need sex. Maybe if celibacy was an option instead of being an obligation, we would have less pedophilia. And by the way, why is marriage for a priest more of a terrible thing than pedophilia ? It is my understanding that the Apostles were married, and even Paul said he could have taken a wife if he had wanted one .

 

[cknick]

I’ve got news for you. They will continue to to occur anyway this side of heaven. Nothing will change that short of taking an extreme action like never helping anyone. Using large text doesn’t make your appear more correct. When one has something of value, they do not need to resort to such gimmicks.

Well a reduction of maladaptive behaviors would be nice. Reaction to abuse by admin is as much a part of whether or not reduction of said behavior occurs in the future. To look the other way or sweep it under the rug is not a good sign.