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SouthCatholic
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How are they going to do that? I thought the new rule is that once you are baptized Catholic, there is no way to get out of it?!
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Mustard
Guest
As an Irish Catholic myself, I have to say I agree with the archbishop. I would go further. After the Irish state was founded, the government essentially franchised out almost all education and a significant portion of health care to the Church. The Church, IMHO, made a massive mistake in accepting that role. It essentially became an arm of the state and as such, was corrupted. People forget that the separation of church and state is not good for the state alone, but also for the church. The Catholic Church should turn all the schools and hospitals it runs back over to the state, expel the a la carte Catholics and return to its roots, supporting itself from those committed believers who are willing to stand by Rome. I suspect that if it does, then the Church will last a lot longer than the state.
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Rich_Olszewski
Guest
The truism I heard was “the Catholic Church isn’t a country club for the saved, but a hospital for the sinners.”
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Teelynn
Guest
Yep, you got it!
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CMatt25
Guest
Which is basically my point too.
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CMatt25
Guest
A bishop once explained who is a Catholic to me in this manner. He said Baptism makes one a member of the Catholic Church and there are practicing and non practicing but all are still Catholics. He added that being practicing of course does not exclude the possibility of sin in one’s life.
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Ecoclimber
Guest
In the early church, if you were a Christian and defected or engaged in sinful activities, you were expelled from the church until you repented and only were allowed back in if your behavior matched your confession. Simon Magus was baptized by Philip but apostatized. Paul caution on allowing a leaven to corrupt the church body. Unlike today, the church was filed with saints not sinners. Saints who fell into sin were asked to leave the church. Those sinners outside the church who wanted to become Christians were given instructions,catechumens, over a period of time and then gradually were allowed into full admission. 1 Cor 5: 1-12
I suppose those who want to leave the Church could care less about signing documents but just leave with many not caring to ever come back. You can reach a point, apostatize, where God removes His grace whereby it will be impossible for you to even have the desire to come back. Heb 10:19-31. Those who only use the Church for baptism, marriage and death and skipping out on attending Mass are probably using the ritualistic aspects of the Church then for anything resembling real faith.
Blessings
I suppose those who want to leave the Church could care less about signing documents but just leave with many not caring to ever come back. You can reach a point, apostatize, where God removes His grace whereby it will be impossible for you to even have the desire to come back. Heb 10:19-31. Those who only use the Church for baptism, marriage and death and skipping out on attending Mass are probably using the ritualistic aspects of the Church then for anything resembling real faith.
Blessings
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Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
FAQ
Q. People go to the Church as are worse than the others.
A. Now imagine if they did not go ?
Q.There are people outside who never go to Church and are better than the people who go!
A. Those who do not go, do need God. I need. (irony) Those are the good ones, the ones going to the Church are the bad ones.
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Tigg
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All fall short of the glory of God and practicing Catholics then repent and go to confession for absolution. Apparently you don’t distinguish the difference in the degrees of sin, which is also against church doctrine. Apostasy and abandonment of the faith cuts one off (even the baptized) from the sanctifying life of Christ and salvation. Unrepentant lapsed Catholics on judgment day, can no longer cling to their “Catholicism,” in fact I would go so far as to say that it might further serve
(by their own choice) to condemn them since they rejected God’s treasury of grace to go their own way. They might even be found guilty, as we see so often on these threads, of leading others to sin by encouraging them to dissent from church teaching.
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Tigg
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Then I wish I could respond to you in Italian. Are you also a mathematician or a scientist? C’mon…we form a right conscience by study and prayer and assenting to the truth of the faith through the grace of God given to us at Baptism; in which instance, reason will not contradict, but edify. Life in the Spirit is REAL - it is part of sensus fidei - we hear the voice of the Shepherd and can discern the law of God written upon our hearts. We ourselves, in a greater sense, determine those “conditions.”
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saveusfromhell
Guest
neither does just being a baptised catholic stop you from entering hell.
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Semper_Zelare
Guest
This flys in the face of Catholic teaching.
There’s no such thing as good and bad people. I mean, perhaps there is. BUT, it is the job of Jesus Christ to be the judge. Humans shouldn’t comport themselves judging themselves and others, comparing themselves to others.
This idea of “good ones and bad ones”… that is not the job of a Christian to determine. Every person that goes to Church deserves death on a cross for their sins. Every person that doesn’t go to Church deserves death on a cross for their sins.
We all deserve to be crucified for our innate sinfulness. That’s what we deserve. But, Jesus Christ saved us from this fate by saving us from our sins and allowing us to share in the inheritance of eternal life.
Everyone is evil, everyone is a sinner. Whether you tell 1 lie, kill 10 people, or rape 100 people. We are all sinners.
If someone is good, they are not good, but it is the good which was given to them by the grace of Christ that we determine they are good. A determination that we shouldn’t make bc it is judgemental.
Lastly, all people need to go to Church who are Christian.
But, this is just another example of Pfaffenhoffen applying his own beliefs to his faith. And not submitting to the beliefs that are already in place of the faith.
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Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
Sorry, my fault and my mistake.
I did not say why I put it there so out of question.
The first sentence is common used sentences used by people who do not go to Church. the others pretend, I repeat, pretend to be good humored answers to these fellows.
I think I totally missed the point so I beg you please to just erase this post off you mind for it was not edifying not funny… which was supposed to be !!! Bad day, bad luck…
sorry…
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Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
You may answer in Italian. Prego.
Maths, a little, Science, a little.
I think you are completely right.
But…your are a mathematician and a scientist. You are a person of culture.
Now imagine a person who lives in Papua New Guinea, who hardly had heard about Jesus or in the Amazon Basin or a person of little intelligent and culture in Europe.
Even so, The Church Teaches us that you can never be sure whether you are in a state of Grace for GRACE IS GIVEN it is not (only!) earned.
So, about mortal sin, if one of these things exist.
As for me, though I am the most intelligent person in the world
, I am a zero compared to God.I prefer not to judge me.
I prefer that God judges me.
He is more just than I. He is more loving to myself than me.
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CMatt25
Guest
Who said it did?
I’m still going to leave people’s hearts on judgment day to our Savior though. May God’s blessings and His peace be with you and all of us in our faith journeys always.
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Pfaffenhoffen
Guest
Now, I am defending the poor Bishop.
maybe he had a bad day.
Maybe he was badly quoted.
Maybe it was taken out of context.
Most probably it was intended to shake up consciences.
HAvins said what I said, I am with him and finish my posting here.
maybe he had a bad day.
Maybe he was badly quoted.
Maybe it was taken out of context.
Most probably it was intended to shake up consciences.
HAvins said what I said, I am with him and finish my posting here.
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saveusfromhell
Guest
here you piont out that a bishop says one is a catholic just by being baptised which is true. but piontlesss being a catholic if you end up in hell.
the devil is conatantly getting people to say i am a catholic but i don’t believe in xy z this is an attempt to dilute the one true faith.
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drvelociraptor
Guest
I’m a lapsed Catholic and I agree whole heartedly with the Arch-Bishop. I left because of certain issues I could not reconcile, so instead of trying to make the Church conform to me I decided to leave knowing i could come back if lead there.
This is in direct opposition to others in my family who say they’re Catholic but are pro-choice, never actually go to Church or follow the faith. They also have a laundry list of things they want fixed in the Church, gay marriage, abortions, female clergy, married clergy, no statues tc… etc… I try to explain that the Church they want already exists in a myriad of different Protestant flavors why don’t’ they just leave the Catholic Church and find a Church that fits their ideas? They always become incensed at that and state how they love the Church and are here to fix it.
This is in direct opposition to others in my family who say they’re Catholic but are pro-choice, never actually go to Church or follow the faith. They also have a laundry list of things they want fixed in the Church, gay marriage, abortions, female clergy, married clergy, no statues tc… etc… I try to explain that the Church they want already exists in a myriad of different Protestant flavors why don’t’ they just leave the Catholic Church and find a Church that fits their ideas? They always become incensed at that and state how they love the Church and are here to fix it.
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Tigg
Guest
During Lectio Divina yesterday, I just happened to be in the book of Hebrews, Chap. 6 (NAB.) I was struck by the similarity between the bishop’s comments and most especially by his use of the word “maturity” within the context of this Scripture. Could he have thought of this passage when he spoke?
Just a thought…
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Tigg
Guest
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