Is a lack of dating experience by 25 a turn off to women?

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From another article of his:

“Since I am not only a dating coach, but a long-time participant in the hook-up culture (1991-2008), I’d like to think I’ve got a pretty good grasp of what it entails.”

So I guess to become as good with women as he is, one must therefore live a life of fornication for two decades to figure them out? :confused:
You don’t have to be “as good with women” as he is to wind up happily married, but the advice in the article I linked to is very sound.

Don’t forget, guys–there are roughly the same number of men as there are women, so your chances really are very good.
 
You don’t have to be “as good with women” as he is to wind up happily married, but the advice in the article I linked to is very sound.

Don’t forget, guys–there are roughly the same number of men as there are women, so your chances really are very good.
Well if pick up artists like this Evan Marc Katz are to be believed, due to the evolutionary psychology pseudoscience they subscribe to and its subsequent biological determinism and social darwinism, this parity of the sexes doesn’t actually lead to bundles of happy relationships and marriages thanks to what gets called female hypergamy, a.k.a. dating up.

Of course I’m pretty certain the diabolical is behind the mentality of the whole pick up artist scene anyway, what with telling men to follow their concupiscence and sleep with as many attractive women as possible (or as they often call it “spreading their seed”) or telling women to follow their concupiscence and never ever settle for a boring man but always be looking for the confident “bad boy” (a.k.a. hypergamy/dating up) (these are the two flip sides of the message they push).

You can see the results in that Elliot Rodgers boy, heavily influenced by the pick up artist scene that this Marc Katz pushes, who goes out and kills several innocent people because he can’t get any sex, which according to these pick up artists ought to be the goal for any fulfilled man or woman.

Of course folks like Moses, Isaiah and Jesus would have never given this kind of dating advice that PUA scene pushes, i.e. calling people to their true, noble, higher, self-sacrificial selves. Nope, we need to listen to folks who were raised like this Marc Katz on the “hook up scene” on how to build stable relationships and marriages. :rolleyes:
 
Well if pick up artists like this Evan Marc Katz are to be believed, due to the evolutionary psychology pseudoscience they subscribe to and its subsequent biological determinism and social darwinism, this parity of the sexes doesn’t actually lead to bundles of happy relationships and marriages thanks to what gets called female hypergamy, a.k.a. dating up.

Of course I’m pretty certain the diabolical is behind the mentality of the whole pick up artist scene anyway, what with telling men to follow their concupiscence and sleep with as many attractive women as possible (or as they often call it “spreading their seed”) or telling women to follow their concupiscence and never ever settle for a boring man but always be looking for the confident “bad boy” (a.k.a. hypergamy/dating up) (these are the two flip sides of the message they push).

You can see the results in that Elliot Rodgers boy, heavily influenced by the pick up artist scene that this Marc Katz pushes, who goes out and kills several innocent people because he can’t get any sex, which according to these pick up artists ought to be the goal for any fulfilled man or woman.

Of course folks like Moses, Isaiah and Jesus would have never given this kind of dating advice that PUA scene pushes, i.e. calling people to their true, noble, higher, self-sacrificial selves. Nope, we need to listen to folks who were raised like this Marc Katz on the “hook up scene” on how to build stable relationships and marriages. :rolleyes:
What the crude evolutionary biology stuff doesn’t quite get is that these days, middle class parenthood is an extremely taxing and demanding activity. It requires at a minimum two fully engaged parents. Hence, a middle class woman who desires to have a smoothly running middle class family is not going to be willing to share a man with another woman or women. She needs a man whose available resources (time, money and love) are fully available to their joint offspring.

Furthermore, bear in mind that hypergamy has a lot of different available axes. A guy can be funnier than average, smarter than average, harder working than average, higher earning than average, more frugal than average, more athletic than average, better looking than average, more charming than average, more musical than average, more artistic than average, knows more languages than average, from a more interesting country than average, a snappier dresser than average, better with his hands than average, have a more welcoming more fun-loving family than average, etc. There are many, many different ways in which to excel. My future husband, for instance, originally attracted my attention by quoting a bit of Thomas Aquinas at a book group. And the good news is that the same guy cannot monopolize all of those categories–the most athletic guy is usually not the same person as the smartest guy, and the best looking guy is not the same person as the highest earning guy, etc.

Jesus doesn’t give any dating advice at all, as I recall (except to suggest that celibacy might indeed be more attractive than marriage). Moses or Isaiah, either (although, obviously there’s some purely legal stuff on marriage and sexuality in the Mosaic law). You have to look in a very different part of the Bible (Proverbs and other wisdom literature or the NT epistles, for instance) to get much advice on marriage and sexuality.
 
25 isn’t that bad. Lose the weight by joining a gym, gain some confidence by reading some books or taking acting classes. Just work on any problems you may have. I do think that some women do find it weird that some men at our age have very little dating experience, but there are also some women who don’t care. It all really depends on the girl.
 
“Okay not to get on the negative bus again but you say time will be when i’m ready. Well I’m already 25. What if it takes me another 20 years. My dad was married at 45 (granted he dated a decent amount in his years before then) and you know what happened to him? he died of cancer. I don’t want that to happen to my kids. If my mom and dad had met even 5 years earlier things would be so much better. With my luck though that’s what will happen if anything at all. Granted by that time my parents probably just ended up together because no one was left.”

There is no need for artificial deadlines in your love life. Pursuing advanced education is admirable, and will be of great money value in the future. My own father and mother were both army veterans of World War II. After the war, they went back to university, and thus secured economic security. My father lived at home, while earrning a law degree. They went on to have six children, and a 55 year marriage.
 
But somebody could easily wind up corresponding with someone who says (over the course of a number of emails), “Hi! I’m Natasha in Russia, here’s a picture of me in a bikini, and by the way, my mom is sick and needs expensive medicine quick!”

Plus, Natasha may actually be a Boris, for all we know.
Sounds sketchy. Why would anyone go on a website with such people. Not that they don’t have scammers, but try catholicmatch or match if you are doing the online route. Not some sketchy chat site.
 
Sounds sketchy. Why would anyone go on a website with such people. Not that they don’t have scammers, but try catholicmatch or match if you are doing the online route. Not some sketchy chat site.
Keep in mind there may be some sketchy people on catholicmatch. Not everything is so blatantly obvious at the surface. Keep in mind people dont ask you straight out for money, not if theyre pro scammers. The good ones will condition you and take their time with you, to the point of making you fall in love with them. Then they sink their teeth in you like a shark.
 
Keep in mind there may be some sketchy people on catholicmatch. Not everything is so blatantly obvious at the surface. Keep in mind people dont ask you straight out for money, not if theyre pro scammers. The good ones will condition you and take their time with you, to the point of making you fall in love with them. Then they sink their teeth in you like a shark.
Am I just that Naive? I mean don’t get me wrong but you guys make it sound like there is a scam artist around every corner.
 
“Okay not to get on the negative bus again but you say time will be when i’m ready. Well I’m already 25. What if it takes me another 20 years. My dad was married at 45 (granted he dated a decent amount in his years before then) and you know what happened to him? he died of cancer. I don’t want that to happen to my kids. If my mom and dad had met even 5 years earlier things would be so much better. With my luck though that’s what will happen if anything at all. Granted by that time my parents probably just ended up together because no one was left.”

There is no need for artificial deadlines in your love life. Pursuing advanced education is admirable, and will be of great money value in the future. My own father and mother were both army veterans of World War II. After the war, they went back to university, and thus secured economic security. My father lived at home, while earrning a law degree. They went on to have six children, and a 55 year marriage.
Well good for them. I’m glad it worked out. Granted I’m kind of a cynical person. I always wonder back then how many people ended up together just because it was “expected”. My grandparents on my mom’s side kind of had that. My grandma got pregnant with my mother and while she was dating my grandpa and i’d like to think they would have been married, it wasn’t exactly the greatest marriage and they weren’t exactly the greatest people. How many people came home from World War Two or Korea and just settled down with whoever and didn’t think about it?
 
Well if pick up artists like this Evan Marc Katz are to be believed, due to the evolutionary psychology pseudoscience they subscribe to and its subsequent biological determinism and social darwinism, this parity of the sexes doesn’t actually lead to bundles of happy relationships and marriages thanks to what gets called female hypergamy, a.k.a. dating up.

Of course I’m pretty certain the diabolical is behind the mentality of the whole pick up artist scene anyway, what with telling men to follow their concupiscence and sleep with as many attractive women as possible (or as they often call it “spreading their seed”) or telling women to follow their concupiscence and never ever settle for a boring man but always be looking for the confident “bad boy” (a.k.a. hypergamy/dating up) (these are the two flip sides of the message they push).

You can see the results in that Elliot Rodgers boy, heavily influenced by the pick up artist scene that this Marc Katz pushes, who goes out and kills several innocent people because he can’t get any sex, which according to these pick up artists ought to be the goal for any fulfilled man or woman.

Of course folks like Moses, Isaiah and Jesus would have never given this kind of dating advice that PUA scene pushes, i.e. calling people to their true, noble, higher, self-sacrificial selves. Nope, we need to listen to folks who were raised like this Marc Katz on the “hook up scene” on how to build stable relationships and marriages. :rolleyes:
👍
 
Is it? I’m 25 and while i’ve had a few dates here and their, i haven’t really had a relationship with anyone. Now I know people will be sympathetic on here, but be honest, would it be a turnoff to find a 25 year old man who’d never had some sort of relationship before? I mean i had such bad self esteem issues throughout high school that I couldn’t even ask girls to dances because I thought I was a “fat ugly weird loser” and in college I focused on school but was still afraid to ask women out.

Now it feels like its the same old refrain. I’m still scared, granted now it’s my economic situation (I’m living at home getting my masters) as well as my experience. Sadly on this site I hear about guys who don’t have experience at a certain point (especially over 30) and are considered creepy, weird, odd,etc. It makes me wonder if i’m heading down that path and the path to single hood since every year less and less women are available, and at this point I won’t date someone with kids, I’m not big on dating non-catholics (only because I grew up in a house where my mother converted just to marry my dad and really didn’t do it for any other reason, though there may be exceptions) and I also won’t date lukewarm Catholics (and by lukewarm I mean don’t go to mass at least every week and disagree with church teachings).
No, at 25 I don’t think at all this is bad.

I don’t think, by what I’ve read, that you have fully discovered your value. This isn’t too unusual for your age as you are still starting in life. Jesus didn’t start his ministry until he was 30 .

People posted a lot of good advice here for you. I just wanted to say be more concerned with becoming what is needed to be a good husband. The Lord will surely help you with this when you follow Him. It sounds like you are already doing this but have a few more things to sort out. (that’s not unusual for your age). Just keep going and don’t give up. Trust in the Lord and lean not on your own understanding…or the current culture’s worldly “wisdom” which usually leads people to make bad decisions since they were following a script rather than what was right and timely for them.

The only way you can be a loser is if you give up. Fat can be fixed of you want it to be…hopefully for your own personal health benefit. Handsomness doesn’t do jack squat for getting done what needs to be done. Weird… Some people go for weird. Everything that is not understood is weird. If some gal doesn’t take the time to understand, that’s a plus for you as she wouldn’t be the one for you then. Don’t settle!
 
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WildCatholic:
Is it? I’m 25 and while i’ve had a few dates here and their, i haven’t really had a relationship with anyone. Now I know people will be sympathetic on here, but be honest, would it be a turnoff to find a 25 year old man who’d never had some sort of relationship before? I mean i had such bad self esteem issues throughout high school that I couldn’t even ask girls to dances because I thought I was a “fat ugly weird loser” and in college I focused on school but was still afraid to ask women out.
Hey, as someone who is a little older than you (33) but has many friends in your age range…

Don’t waste your time overanalyzing this. It is a TRAP.

If a girl asks, confidently tell her (like you would in a job interview) that you haven’t dated much because you spent your life focusing on other areas of life, like school and career, but now you would like to meet women and get to know them.

She can’t fail to understand that. If she still judges you, forget her and move on.

Now, if she says “I need a man who knows what he wants; you haven’t dated much so how do I know I’m not just an experiment?” or something like that, this is what you say:

“I chose you because you seem like a high-quality person. If you keep degrading yourself, then I am offended because you’re degrading my choices.”

This is a confident answer that also makes her more comfortable.

If she still rejects you, you’re in grad school, so there are other women to meet. You’re in the most target-rich environment you’ll ever be in. Adult life is not as target-rich. It’s College 2.0, college with legal drinking, smarter classmates, more relevant material, and professors who respect you! So enjoy College 2.0 while you still can!
 
I’m a single girl in my early 20’s and It’s not a put off to me. I wouldn’t want a man who’s had a string of other women who he can compare me to.
All I would suggest though is don’t be afraid to talk to or ask women out.
I prefer shy guys but as a shy girl I think I would rather he at least make the first move.
 
Hey, as someone who is a little older than you (33) but has many friends in your age range…

Don’t waste your time overanalyzing this. It is a TRAP.

If a girl asks, confidently tell her (like you would in a job interview) that you haven’t dated much because you spent your life focusing on other areas of life, like school and career, but now you would like to meet women and get to know them.

She can’t fail to understand that. If she still judges you, forget her and move on.

Now, if she says “I need a man who knows what he wants; you haven’t dated much so how do I know I’m not just an experiment?” or something like that, this is what you say:

“I chose you because you seem like a high-quality person. If you keep degrading yourself, then I am offended because you’re degrading my choices.”

This is a confident answer that also makes her more comfortable.

If she still rejects you, you’re in grad school, so there are other women to meet. You’re in the most target-rich environment you’ll ever be in. Adult life is not as target-rich. It’s College 2.0, college with legal drinking, smarter classmates, more relevant material, and professors who respect you! So enjoy College 2.0 while you still can!
All very good. I would avoid using the term “high-quality” of a woman to her face, however, because it makes her sound like a block of artisanal cheese.
 
Is it? I’m 25 and while i’ve had a few dates here and their, i haven’t really had a relationship with anyone. Now I know people will be sympathetic on here, but be honest, would it be a turnoff to find a 25 year old man who’d never had some sort of relationship before? I mean i had such bad self esteem issues throughout high school that I couldn’t even ask girls to dances because I thought I was a “fat ugly weird loser” and in college I focused on school but was still afraid to ask women out.
Women really aren’t hard-charging, hard-judging darwinists. They aren’t guards patrolling the Great Wall of Texas with you on the Mexican side. They aren’t even perfectionists who won’t tolerate anything less than 100% smashing dating performance.

Well, okay, some are, but they’re a minority and probably have self-esteem issues themselves to begin with. The girl next door really lives, and she actually wants to co-operate and is ready to adapt, make adjustments and sacrifice and make room for you in her life and give you an honest chance. And a second one and sometimes a third, and sometimes even more. She probably goes down easy on you and lifts some of the emotional burdens behind the scenes. And she definitely has feelings. And, well, she’s an overall great fella, except female. 😉

Try to just hang out with women, have fun with them, relax around them, not be scared about them, like them. They’re people first, women second. If you can deal with people, you can deal with women.

Admittedly, it may be hard if you can’t help associating women mentally with some past rejections and betrayals and abuse or otherwise a threat of humiliation or emotional pain. But if that’s the case, it’s probably a good idea to see a trained counsellor to get some help and solve in weeks what would take you years on your own, and be free afterward. It’s neither their fault nor yours, and not even a shameful thing, just something that needs to be dealt with or you’ll find it difficult to be happy.

Finally, I don’t think well-adjusted Catholic women are likely to be put off by a lack of relationship experience. On the contrary, if anything, they would actually be more likely to be put off if you did have the experience, especially those with a little fragile self-esteem. This is somewhat different from the general dating scene where people are looking for comfortable short-tame dating or live-in relationships mostly for the good feeling of it.

For the record, they might even wonder why you haven’t had a girlfriend yet, if it isn’t some sort of past trauma or emotional handicap, but they (the ‘nice ones’) will probably be looking from a friend’s perspective, not a referee’s, so to know you, to help you, not to judge you, forget vet you. You’d be surprised.

Edit: There are also always malcontents. People who, if you haven’t had a girlfriend before, will wonder what’s wrong with you that you couldn’t find one — but if you have had one in the past, they’ll wonder what’s wrong with you that the relationship has not survived. Those are hard to please, and they need a therapist, not a person of the opposite sex trying to please them.
 
If a girl asks, confidently tell her (like you would in a job interview) that you haven’t dated much because you spent your life focusing on other areas of life, like school and career, but now you would like to meet women and get to know them.
Actually, you could just say: ‘I haven’t had much dating experience because I’m not that great with girls,’ and it would still be good. Heck, you could even follow up with an honest: ‘I can’t figure out your lot for the life of me,’ and it would be even better.

Like I said, women aren’t immigration officers. Some even have a sense of humour.
“I chose you because you seem like a high-quality person. If you keep degrading yourself, then I am offended because you’re degrading my choices.”

This is a confident answer that also makes her more comfortable.
Better be honest, or the ‘comfortable’ will be a very short sort of comfort. If she thinks the two of you should be getting engaged after simply hanging out a couple of times and not suffering any particular disaster, then she’s the one who needs to grow up. Give her truth, not flattery.

By the way, every date and every new relationship is an experiment, by definition. What’s wrong is when you’re really experimenting while professing deep and confident convinction, undying love etc.
 
Women really aren’t hard-charging, hard-judging darwinists. They aren’t guards patrolling the Great Wall of Texas with you on the Mexican side. They aren’t even perfectionists who won’t tolerate anything less than 100% smashing dating performance.
Yeah, we’re planning to improve you later.

Kidding!
 
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