Is abortion ever, ever okay?

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Hatikvah said:
No, no. The OP was claiming that it was respectively rape and crippling deformities, though it is not one that causes the other.

Still, it’s not okay.
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Oh, I goofed. 😊

Still, even in that case, it is evil. When a child is mentally or physically disabled, do we kill him or her? :mad:
 
And they don’t believe that abortion is premeditated and brutal?
They should watch footage of one. Simply horrifying.
 
AmericanRose said:
My relative is very adament on their stance. How can I make them see otherwise?
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I think you should focus on whether the unborn baby is a human person.

If it’s a human person, then it’s never moral to kill an innocent human person.

If it’s not a person, when does it become a person?
 
No abortion is not ok in any corcumstance just like all sexual sin such as contraception, adultary, sodomy, etc etc.
 
I understand and sympathize with a woman who wouldn’t want to have to endure a pregnancy after a rape. She did not control ending up that way, it was forced on her, an injustice to the woman in this case, but there should be no injustice to the child either. That child has a right to life. If it were me, I would, at the worst, maybe just hope for a miscarriage. And I would imagine that does happen. The woman might just lose the baby, the natural way, without trying to induce it, after a month or so. Not that it is right to wish this either, but I can understand.
 
AmericanRose said:
A relative of mine says that abortion is acceptable if a woman is raped or the child will have crippling deformities. An abortion clinic in my state is allowing abortions up to (I’m not quite sure) 24 weeks. Opinions?
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Can you see the disconnect between the sin of the father and the life of the child? An innocent should die whilst the rapist might get six years in jail after good behaviour? Justice?

If we kill all who need our mercy and our special love, we destroy our society and as Christians cannot surely reasonably expect our pleas of mercy to be heard by our Lord.He wasn’t very merciful to his servant whose debt he forgave, who did not carry that mercy to those under his power. If we legitimise the destruction of the crippled, how crippled do they have to be? If we legitimise the destruction of the crippled as saving inconvenience, cost or care required, why stop at birth? Nazi Germany went down this route until their evil was destroyed. Why should we not wait until we are certain as to the deformity after birth and then decide if it will be a continuing drain on our time and money. All babies are a drain on our time and money. It will be all relative and fair. We might end up just picking the pretty ones…

What murderers are doing in your neighbourhood has little to do with the argument.
 
DaddyGirl said:
If someone was for sure carrying a child that was half-human, half-satan…even then, the Catholic church would say no-go to an abortion, right?

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Interesting question, but I don’t think human / angel hybrids are possible in that sense. They are more the stuff of horror movies. 😃
 
AmericanRose said:
A relative of mine says that abortion is acceptable if a woman is raped or the child will have crippling deformities. Opinions?
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2 comments. Your relative is not fully informed. Studies have shown that women who carry their child to term after a rape are happier than those who abort. They are able to love their children, and separate the child from the rape itself. Here is an article about that.

It has also been found that genetic abnormalities often correct themselves in utero. That may be part of the reason for so many stories about babies who doctors predicted would have serious problems, but were born normal. See here.

You can pray that your relative will come to see the value in every life.

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AmericanRose said:
A relative of mine says that abortion is acceptable if a woman is raped or the child will have crippling deformities. An abortion clinic in my state is allowing abortions up to (I’m not quite sure) 24 weeks. Opinions?
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Yes there are particular circumstances when medical abortion is OK.
But those cases of medical abortion are NO LONGER called immoral acts of abortion by the Church.
And rape and crippling deformities are not examples of such conditions.

Nor is civil abortion law a good guide to the Church’s view on what constitutes an immoral act of abortion.
 
Blue_Horizon said:
Yes there are particular circumstances when medical abortion is OK.
But those cases of medical abortion are NO LONGER called immoral acts of abortion by the Church.
And rape and crippling deformities are not examples of such conditions.

Nor is civil abortion law a good guide to the Church’s view on what constitutes an immoral act of abortion.
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I don’t think “medical abortion” is the right term. The Church does permit morally neutral medical procedures designed to save a pregnant woman’s life that may have an unintended side-effect of causing a child to die in the womb, such as the removal of a cancerous uterus. This is not considered abortion.
 
AmericanRose said:
A relative of mine says that abortion is acceptable if a woman is raped or the child will have crippling deformities. An abortion clinic in my state is allowing abortions up to (I’m not quite sure) 24 weeks. Opinions?
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When you realize that abortion always means intentionally killing an innocent unborn child, then you realize why it’s never okay to do it. Now, if you unintentionally kill an unborn child in the process of say, trying to save the mother’s life- then it’s not abortion. A raped woman can also be given a drug in an attempt to prevent conception, according to Catholic teaching.

If we have no right to kill a 1-year-old child with crippling deformities or who was conceived via abortion, what makes anyone think that they have a right to kill that child before he is born? Birth does not make one exist- conception does. The conceived, but unborn are just as alive as we are.

This issue is hard because of hot emotions and because of all the relativism and self-centeredness in our culture, but not because the arguments are difficult to understand or wishy-washy- They’re as clear as can be.
 
There are some circumstances in which an abortion is acceptable in Catholic morality. Disclaimer: It is never acceptable as an* intentional *medical procedure.

The Principle of Double Effect states that an action can be morally permissible if the act isn’t “intrinsically wrong”, its negative consequences cannot be reasonably predicted, and the intended consequence is good. Suppose then that a pregnancy threatens the mother’s life. If a surgery to save her unexpectedly causes a miscarriage then the operation could still be moral by this principle.
 
Oreoracle said:
There are some circumstances in which an abortion is acceptable in Catholic morality. Disclaimer: It is never acceptable as an* intentional *medical procedure.

The Principle of Double Effect states that an action can be morally permissible if the act isn’t “intrinsically wrong”, its negative consequences cannot be reasonably predicted, and the intended consequence is good. Suppose then that a pregnancy threatens the mother’s life. If a surgery to save her unexpectedly causes a miscarriage then the operation could still be moral by this principle.
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I think the issue is not “unexpectedly”, so much as “indirectly”. Witness the nuances around the issue of ectopic pregnancies. Interesting stuff. 🙂
 
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