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Marsha_Adams
Guest
So do the SDAs believe in One Triune God or Three Gods in One God Head?
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LiftHimUp
Guest
If I’m not mistaken, your status says that you are a former SDA. Did you have an understanding of this as an SDA?
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Marsha_Adams
Guest
Yes, I am a former SDA. I was born in the denomination, went to Andrews University in Berrien Springs, Michigan, minored in Religion and took 54 credits of religion classes. So yes, I do have an understanding of the SDA belief on the subject of the Trinity.
The reason for my question is that I want to know what the denomination is teaching the grass roots members these days. History has shown us that the early pioneers were semi-arian until the early 20th century when the denomination decided it wanted to be acceptable to mainstream evangelical denominations. So I am understandably curious as to how its theology has changed in the last thirty years.
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LiftHimUp
Guest
To my understanding, theology has not changed. The people on the other hand, I can’t speak for.
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Marsha_Adams
Guest
Well then, according to what you have learned in your studying with the SDAs, do the SDAs believe in One Triune God or Three Gods in One God Head?
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CMatt25
Guest
Not exactly. For instance they seem to differentiate between ornamental jewelry and a wedding band. An SDA friend of mine wore a wedding ring.Adventism does do this. Their teachings determine what you can eat. what clothes you can wear. How to wear your hair. They do not allow jewelry, not even the wedding band. Further more. you cannot drink any alchohol, use tobacco, or drink caffinated products. these are just a few of the restrictions if you wish to be part of the “group.” There are far more restrictions on normal day to day life, in Groups like these, than you would ever find in the CC. Peace
"In some countries the custom of wearing the marriage ring is considered imperative, having become in the minds of the people, a criterion of virtue, and hence is not regarded as an ornament. Under such circumstances we have no disposition to condemn the practice.” –SDA Church Manual, 1971 edition, p. 212.
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CMatt25
Guest
Yes CCC 1782 says man has the right to make moral decisions and must not be prevented from acting in accordance with conscience in religious matters. And 1790 says to not obey one’s conscience is to condemn oneself.
Yet after informing one’s conscience, if the conscience is still in opposition to Catholic Church teaching, I’ve seen it concluded by even some right here on CAF that one’s conscience is not informed. Or that one’s catechism is lacking. Because their mind does not agree with the Catholic Church. And then they are unwelcome for instance to approach and receive Jesus. Or called nominal or told they should not identify themselves as Catholics. Mind you I’m not calling either Catholicism or Adventism a cult. Only that it might depend though on one’s definition of control.
It also appears a poster here on this thread walked out of the SDA door.
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benidict
Guest
Hi LiftHimUp. I really value your candor with us. Thank you so much. Im not trying to belittle you in any way. But do you know any Adventist that could come on here and state the same thing you just posted here. I understand you are still studying Adventism, and It would be great to have someone come on here, Who is an expierienced Adventist to confirm what you are stating. Thanks
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LiftHimUp
Guest
I know quite a lot of them but as far as them coming on here I would have to ask. If so I will let you know. I understand completely. I try to help in any possible way that I can.Hi LiftHimUp. I really value your candor with us. Thank you so much. Im not trying to belittle you in any way. But do you know any Adventist that could come on here and state the same thing you just posted here. I understand you are still studying Adventism, and It would be great to have someone come on here, Who is an expierienced Adventist to confirm what you are stating. Thanks
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benidict
Guest
Thank you, and I greatly appreciate it. And upon futher review of what some other Adventist posters have read, I dont think you are too far off from the statements they are making. I just dont want to jump to any conclusions, or misinterpret what you are trying to say. Peace
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CMatt25
Guest
I just got to thinking further about this and actually while we have a poster here who walked out of the SDA door and became ex SDA, a Catholic is considered by Baptism permanently a Catholic. Even excomunicated Catholics are still considered Catholics.
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CMatt25
Guest
The information you get might well be right. My SDA experience consists only of having taken a basic online Bible study because I have SDA friends and wanted to know more. And conversing with my SDA friends. But you’re relying on a former SDA to explain the Adventism Christian faith yet many Catholics here don’t want lapsed Catholics explaining Catholicism.Hi Marsha. I thank God you showed up here. I was beginning to doubt myself and wonder if in fact I had misinterpreted what had been said by some Adventist on this forum. I would hate to do that. It is good to hear from a former Adventist. Quick question. Do the Adventist wait until they have a convert before they teach the more shall we say, Unique Christological doctrines they hold? I much Appreciate you being here. Peace and prayers for you.
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Marsha_Adams
Guest
The problem with a former anything explaining the beliefs of that group is the argument that if the former whatever truly understood those beliefs he/she wouldn’t be a former. To some extent that is true. It is also true that many formers are former because they DID understand the beliefs and couldn’t stomach them. The coin tosses both ways.
You will notice that I asked LiftHimUp a basic question about SDA understanding of the Trinity. Rather than say, “See, this is what they believe!!” I asked. In fact, I asked twice. No answer. But I am patient, perhaps Lift needs to do some research in order to answer.
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LiftHimUp
Guest
Please do not drag my name through the mud. I clearly stated that I am studying SDA. I never said that I was an SDA and I never said that I have a complete understanding. I explained to the best of the knowledge that I have at the moment because no one was stepping to the plate. You claim to have a full understanding yet you keep asking someone who isn’t an SDA to explain something to you that is of SDA doctrine. What exactly are you trying do? I’ve talk to someone who has asked those same questions continually and not really wanting an answer, therefore when I suspect things like that I stray away from them. If you have a complete understanding of SDA teachings then why are you asking what do SDA’s believe? You are a former SDA right?
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CMatt25
Guest
True Marsha. I just know SDAs like some Catholics about lapsed Catholics, might say an ex could have an agenda because they couldn’t stomach some beliefs. Not you necessarily. I in no way am saying you don’t know what you’re talking about. As you will note I said we might well be getting it right from you and your knowledge and experiences.
You already know this of course but their fundamental beliefs say this about the Trinity, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit complete with their Scripture references:
- Trinity:
There is one God: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, a unity of three co-eternal Persons. God is immortal, all-powerful, all-knowing, above all, and ever present. He is infinite and beyond human comprehension, yet known through His self-revelation. He is forever worthy of worship, adoration, and service by the whole creation. (Deut. 6:4; Matt. 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:14; Eph. 4:4-6; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Tim. 1:17; Rev. 14:7.) - Father:
God the eternal Father is the Creator, Source, Sustainer, and Sovereign of all creation. He is just and holy, merciful and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness. The qualities and powers exhibited in the Son and the Holy Spirit are also revelations of the Father. (Gen. 1:1; Rev. 4:11; 1 Cor. 15:28; John 3:16; 1 John 4:8; 1 Tim. 1:17; Ex. 34:6, 7; John 14:9.) - Son:
God the eternal Son became incarnate in Jesus Christ. Through Him all things were created, the character of God is revealed, the salvation of humanity is accomplished, and the world is judged. Forever truly God, He became also truly man, Jesus the Christ. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit and born of the virgin Mary. He lived and experienced temptation as a human being, but perfectly exemplified the righteousness and love of God. By His miracles He manifested God’s power and was attested as God’s promised Messiah. He suffered and died voluntarily on the cross for our sins and in our place, was raised from the dead, and ascended to minister in the heavenly sanctuary in our behalf. He will come again in glory for the final deliverance of His people and the restoration of all things. (John 1:1-3, 14; Col. 1:15-19; John 10:30; 14:9; Rom. 6:23; 2 Cor. 5:17-19; John 5:22; Luke 1:35; Phil. 2:5-11; Heb. 2:9-18; 1 Cor. 15:3, 4; Heb. 8:1, 2; John 14:1-3.) - Holy Spirit:
God the eternal Spirit was active with the Father and the Son in Creation, incarnation, and redemption. He inspired the writers of Scripture. He filled Christ’s life with power. He draws and convicts human beings; and those who respond He renews and transforms into the image of God. Sent by the Father and the Son to be always with His children, He extends spiritual gifts to the church, empowers it to bear witness to Christ, and in harmony with the Scriptures leads it into all truth. (Gen. 1:1, 2; Luke 1:35; 4:18; Acts 10:38; 2 Peter 1:21; 2 Cor. 3:18; Eph. 4:11, 12; Acts 1:8; John 14:16-18, 26; 15:26, 27; 16:7-13.)
God bless you and peace.
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Marsha_Adams
Guest
LiftHimUp:
If you are studying SDA (presumably with the the intent of deciding to join or not) it is important that you understand what they believe about so important a topic as God. You need to know if the denomination that you are studying with believes in One God or Three. I would think that you would be beating down the doors of your instructors to find out the answer to this question.
I am a former SDA, and I do understand the SDA doctrine. But if I start expounding on it, many people will cry foul. They will say that because I am a Catholic convert from SDAism that I am skewing SDA beliefs to make them look bad, or that I never understood what the SDAs believe on the matter, or that it has been thirty years since I left the SDAs and I may have it wrong. All of those are valid points. So I ask you who are currently studying with the SDAs and have current ties with the SDAs (although you are not a member) to answer the question so that the other members of the thread will get it almost straight from the denomination.
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Marsha_Adams
Guest
Matt:
I have no problem with what you said, it was a valid point.
CMatt25;:
Now this is the problem with the SDA understanding of the Trinity. What exactly is “a unity of three coeternal Persons”? No where do they say.
If you buy a package of candy containing three pieces, you have three pieces of candy NOT one. The three pieces will never be one. If you have a husband, wife and child, you have three individuals not one, you may have one family but it will never be one individual.
Catholics believe in One God in three Persons all of the same substance. Take an eye dropper and drop one drop of water on the top of the plate, one drop in the middle of a plate and one drop at the bottom of the plate. Now tip the plate, all three drops flow into one drop. Because they are all of the same substance they form one large drop. The three are one. If you try, using the eye dropper you can seperate the three drops again. This is as close to an explanation of a Mystery as I ever hope to get.
The SDA explanation for the unity of three co-eternal Persons is “a oneness in purpose, mind and character”, but that does not make One God.
If Ralph, Oscar and Mortimer are walking down the street to buy the package of candy I discussed earlier, they have one purpose, since they all want chocolate they are of one mind, and since they are all honest and upstanding individuals they are of one character, but I’m sorry they are still three guys going to buy candy, not one.
The question is this:
a. Do you believe the God is 100% the Father and 100% the Son is 100% and 100% the Holy Spirit ?
OR
b. Do you believe that the Father is 1/3 God, the Son is 1/3 God and the Holy Spirit is 1/3 God?
If you believe B, you are a polytheist. SDAs believe b.
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LiftHimUp
Guest
Who says I don’t have an understanding of it? I have an understanding of it and many other beliefs. I explained it to the best of my ability on a forum. It wasn’t long or detailed but that does not mean I don’t have an understanding. I have been studying SDA doctrine for under two years and I have a lot of knowledge. I may not have a complete understanding of everything but neither do you and everybody else. We all learn something new as the days pass. That’s why I’m studying.
If you truly have an understanding then it’s fine to say what they believe as long as you use scripture as evidence. I am completely fine with that. But if you start giving your opinion with no proof (and I mean hardcore proof with no assumptions) then what can one say? If you put something that does not match up with their doctrine then expect someone to correct you. Like I said, how can someone argue if you have proof and not speculation? If I’m not mistaken, I saw you on another thread stating what SDA’s believe.
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LiftHimUp
Guest
I see where this is going. I gave my belief. If you missed, please go back and read. Like I said, it wasn’t long but I answered it. Let’s not forget that she is a former SDA who says she has an understanding of SDA doctrine. With that being said, she should take my answer and apply it with what she claims to have knowledge of.
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LiftHimUp
Guest
An ex-member who has an understanding does not need to be biased. That person would provide proof. This is exactly why I don’t engage in conversations like this. We as in you and I, are not getting anywhere nor are we discussing anything beneficial. Therefore I will not continue to go back and forth.
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