Is Adventism Christian

[CMatt25]

Wrong. Actually LiftHimUp explained it with these words which you apparently did miss or simply do not accept. But just because you might not accept an explanation does not equate to deflection or that an explanation was not done.

LiftHimUp: “I will try to explain to the best of my ability. I will start with your first question. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to my understanding of SDA doctrine is that they are three separate beings yet are all equal (for lack of words) An example of this is at the baptism of Jesus when all three were there. See Matthew 3:16,17”

 

[CMatt25]

Matt:

I have no problem with what you said, it was a valid point.

Now this is the problem with the SDA understanding of the Trinity. What exactly is “a unity of three coeternal Persons”? No where do they say.

If you buy a package of candy containing three pieces, you have three pieces of candy NOT one. The three pieces will never be one. If you have a husband, wife and child, you have three individuals not one, you may have one family but it will never be one individual.

Catholics believe in One God in three Persons all of the same substance. Take an eye dropper and drop one drop of water on the top of the plate, one drop in the middle of a plate and one drop at the bottom of the plate. Now tip the plate, all three drops flow into one drop. Because they are all of the same substance they form one large drop. The three are one. If you try, using the eye dropper you can seperate the three drops again. This is as close to an explanation of a Mystery as I ever hope to get.

The SDA explanation for the unity of three co-eternal Persons is “a oneness in purpose, mind and character”, but that does not make One God.

If Ralph, Oscar and Mortimer are walking down the street to buy the package of candy I discussed earlier, they have one purpose, since they all want chocolate they are of one mind, and since they are all honest and upstanding individuals they are of one character, but I’m sorry they are still three guys going to buy candy, not one.

The question is this:

a. Do you believe the God is 100% the Father and 100% the Son is 100% and 100% the Holy Spirit ?

OR

b. Do you believe that the Father is 1/3 God, the Son is 1/3 God and the Holy Spirit is 1/3 God?

If you believe B, you are a polytheist. SDAs believe b.

Hi Marsha, I just bought a Mounds candy bar last night. It comes in 2 pieces but is considered one candybar. I’m going to right now pose your question to my SDA friend via email. Don’t know how long it might take her to respond. But if she does soon enough and this thread is still going, I’ll try to post back her response.

 

[benidict]

Wrong. Actually LiftHimUp explained it with these words which you apparently did miss or simply do not accept. But just because you might not accept an explanation does not equate to deflection or that an explanation was not done.

LiftHimUp: “I will try to explain to the best of my ability. I will start with your first question. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit to my understanding of SDA doctrine is that they are three separate beings yet are all equal (for lack of words) An example of this is at the baptism of Jesus when all three were there. See Matthew 3:16,17”

Yes, I caught it. and that is why I asked for clarification. Because here, we see a clear denial, of the view of the Trinity, that the Church has always taught. Peace

 

[benidict]

Please do not drag my name through the mud. I clearly stated that I am studying SDA. I never said that I was an SDA and I never said that I have a complete understanding. I explained to the best of the knowledge that I have at the moment because no one was stepping to the plate. You claim to have a full understanding yet you keep asking someone who isn’t an SDA to explain something to you that is of SDA doctrine. What exactly are you trying do? I’ve talk to someone who has asked those same questions continually and not really wanting an answer, therefore when I suspect things like that I stray away from them. If you have a complete understanding of SDA teachings then why are you asking what do SDA’s believe? You are a former SDA right?

I think my friend that Marshas questions are fair. Former Catholics have approached me the same way, and I have no problem either answering their questions, or finding someone who can. Peace

 

[CMatt25]

Yes, I caught it. and that is why I asked for clarification. Because here, we see a clear denial, of the view of the Trinity, that the Church has always taught. Peace

By Church you mean the Catholic Church I presume. However different folks have different beliefs as to what constitutes “the Church” of course. Peace to you too Benedict and God bless you.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

By Church you mean the Catholic Church I presume. However different folks have different beliefs as to what constitutes “the Church” of course. Peace to you too Benedict and God bless you.

The Christian Church is monotheistic. The SDA understanding of the Godhead is polytheistic. Is Adventism Christian?

 

[CMatt25]

Matt:

The question is this:

a. Do you believe the God is 100% the Father and 100% the Son is 100% and 100% the Holy Spirit ?

OR

b. Do you believe that the Father is 1/3 God, the Son is 1/3 God and the Holy Spirit is 1/3 God?

If you believe B, you are a polytheist. SDAs believe b.

Hello again Marsha, well my SDA friend was quick to reply. She quoted their same fundamental regarding the Trinity and the Scripture basis they refer to as I had earlier. The one saying there is one God.

 

[CMatt25]

The Christian Church is monotheistic. The SDA understanding of the Godhead is polytheistic. Is Adventism Christian?

Since Christians profess Christ Lord and Savior which Adventism does. And they state in their fundamentals there is one God. A unity of Father, Son and HS. Then I answer yes. But YMMV. God bless you and peace.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Matt:

Did your friend venture any opinion on my a or b question? Did she express any thoughts on how the denomination can call three Persons = one God?

 

[CMatt25]

Matt:

Did your friend venture any opinion on my a or b question? Did she express any thoughts on how the denomination can call three Persons = one God?

No but I have “Outlines of the Catholic Faith”, a publication of The Leaflet Missal Co, St Paul MN, copyright 1980, Imprimatur the Archbishop at the time of St Paul and Minneapolis right here in front of me. And on pg 6 it states, “There are 3 persons in one Godhead.”

So I’m pretty certain since she also quoted SDA belief that there is one God that she wouldn’t accept your thoughts that SDAs are polytheists and not monotheists. But I can run it by her tomorrow if you’d like.

 

[Marsha_Adams]

No but I have “Outlines of the Catholic Faith”, a publication of The Leaflet Missal Co, St Paul MN, copyright 1980, Imprimatur the Archbishop at the time of St Paul and Minneapolis right here in front of me. And on pg 6 it states, “There are 3 persons in one Godhead.”

That is true. The key word in the title of your booklet is “Outline”. It may or may not go into detail on substance. I would refer you to the Catholic Fundamental Beliefs also known as the Nicene Creed A good translation of which will tell you that Jesus is consubstantial with the Father. Since the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, He too is of the consubstantial. Or as the Greek has it, homoousious (forgive my spelling.) Homo being same and ousious being substance. The reason that the three Persons are One is because they are of the same substance.

The SDAs (as I have only recently been treminded by a current member) do not believe that the Three Persons of the Godhead are consubstantial. Instead they view the Three Persons as One merely because they are of one purpose, mind and character. So we are back to my original statement. The SDAs are polytheists.

Please ask your friend my a & b question just exactly as I phrased it. I would be most interested in her answer.

 

[BYUChemAlum]

That is true. The key word in the title of your booklet is “Outline”. It may or may not go into detail on substance. I would refer you to the Catholic Fundamental Beliefs also known as the Nicene Creed A good translation of which will tell you that Jesus is consubstantial with the Father. Since the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, He too is of the consubstantial. Or as the Greek has it, homoousious (forgive my spelling.) Homo being same and ousious being substance. The reason that the three Persons are One is because they are of the same substance.

The SDAs (as I have only recently been treminded by a current member) do not believe that the Three Persons of the Godhead are consubstantial. Instead they view the Three Persons as One merely because they are of one purpose, mind and character. So we are back to my original statement. The SDAs are polytheists.

Please ask your friend my a & b question just exactly as I phrased it. I would be most interested in her answer.

Just curious: if this is the case, why does (does it?) the Catholic Church accept SDA baptism as valid?

 

[benidict]

By Church you mean the Catholic Church I presume. However different folks have different beliefs as to what constitutes “the Church” of course. Peace to you too Benedict and God bless you.

And the majority of protestant Churches. The doctrine of the Trinity, was not one that was changed by Luther or Calvin. It is an old heresy, ressurected by Ellen G. White and company. Are you familiar with the gnosticts? The Arians? the Nestorians? The Cathlolic Church Is the Church that Christ founded, and is still in existence today. But that my friend is a topic for another thread. If I may ask. Are you Adventist, or are you studying to be one. Or are you just sympathetic. Its ok to admit your loyalties here. What is your denomination? Adventist are notorious for hiding their affilliation. Thank you. Peace

 

[benidict]

Just curious: if this is the case, why does (does it?) the Catholic Church accept SDA baptism as valid?

That My dear Latter Day Saint friend. is a very good question. I love Mormons.org. Its not a website, but it should be… Got a soft spot for your folk. Peace to you and yours.

 

[benidict]

The Christian Church is monotheistic. The SDA understanding of the Godhead is polytheistic. Is Adventism Christian?

imntbh opinion…No.

 

[BYUChemAlum]

imntbh opinion…No.

But it seems that the Catholic Church disagrees if it accepts SDA baptism as a valid Christian baptism…

I must say that this discussion has been enlightening, since I always assumed that Seventh-day Adventists were simply traditional Trinitarian Christians. I was aware of their view of Jesus-Michael, however I didn’t know that their view of the Trinity was more similar to the LDS view (a oneness of purpose and intent of three distinct divine personages) than to the traditional view. Which makes the issue of why the Catholic Church accepts their baptisms as valid all the more interesting (in comparison to the rejection of LDS baptisms as valid).

 

[benidict]

But it seems that the Catholic Church disagrees if it accepts SDA baptism as a valid Christian baptism…

I must say that this discussion has been enlightening, since I always assumed that Seventh-day Adventists were simply traditional Trinitarian Christians. I was aware of their view of Jesus-Michael, however I didn’t know that their view of the Trinity was more similar to the LDS view (a oneness of purpose and intent of three distinct divine personages) than to the traditional view. Which makes the issue of why the Catholic Church accepts their baptisms as valid all the more interesting (in comparison to the rejection of LDS baptisms as valid).

It is strange, isnt it my friend. This is just one thing I like about the Mormons. You are pretty clear about your differences up front. another thing is, you dont hide your affiliation. I commend you for that. I had no Idea for the longest time, that Adventist held a different idea about the Trinity as well, until I started reading harder into some of the posters on this forum. This is why I started this thread. I hope somewhere a Priest with influence is reading this, and can pass it up the chain so to speak. Peace to you and yours

 

[CMatt25]

That is true. The key word in the title of your booklet is “Outline”. It may or may not go into detail on substance. I would refer you to the Catholic Fundamental Beliefs also known as the Nicene Creed A good translation of which will tell you that Jesus is consubstantial with the Father. Since the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son, He too is of the consubstantial. Or as the Greek has it, homoousious (forgive my spelling.) Homo being same and ousious being substance. The reason that the three Persons are One is because they are of the same substance.

The SDAs (as I have only recently been treminded by a current member) do not believe that the Three Persons of the Godhead are consubstantial. Instead they view the Three Persons as One merely because they are of one purpose, mind and character. So we are back to my original statement. The SDAs are polytheists.

Please ask your friend my a & b question just exactly as I phrased it. I would be most interested in her answer.

I did ask her your a & b question the first time exactly as you phrased it and as I stated she responded with the fundamental teaching that they believe in one God. The same thing I had previously quoted myself. But I will run it by her once more and get back with you if she has any further enlightenment to add.

 

[CMatt25]

It’s not always necessary to followup when they had already answered.

 

[CMatt25]

Just curious: if this is the case, why does (does it?) the Catholic Church accept SDA baptism as valid?

I’ve asked this myself and they won’t answer. But good for you to followup. Maybe one of us will get an answer. One would assume though if the believed to be one true Church of Christ did not consider Adventism Christian, then they would not accept their Baptisms.