Is Allah equivalent to Yahweh?

[TK421]

@SeekerOfTruth7

Although I agree that allusions to the Trinity can be found in the Old Testament, the ancient Jews before Christ were not Trinitarian and this knowledge of God was not revealed until the New Testament, and it was not cemented in a Council until a few centuries later.

The Catholic Church officially recognizes that Muslims worship the same God as we do. That doesn’t mean there aren’t major doctrinal differences but Muslims invoke the God of Abraham, and the God of Abraham is the true God.

If our standard for worshiping the true God was that a person had to have a perfect understanding of God, then nobody who ever lived would be qualified, because nobody has a perfect understanding of God or a perfect comprehension; not even the angels and saints in Heaven. If God could be comprehended then he would not be God.

Here is the relevant reference:

“But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place among whom are the Muslims: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium 16, November 21, 1964

 

[Wesrock]

Allah is the Arabic word for God. Arab speaking Christians use the word Allah for God. It is like asking if Dieu in French or Dios in Spanish or Gott in German or Theos in Greek or Deus in Latin is equivalent to God.

 

[Wesrock]

Allah is the specific name for the god of Islam

This is not true. At least, not in any sense beyond the terms God or The Most High is a name for God.

 

[SeekerOfTruth7]

“Allah is usually seen as the personal name of God, a notion which became disputed in contemporary scholarship, including the question, whether or not the word Allah should be translated as God” . -Wikipedia.
While I already stated above that Allah is a generic arabic word for god, I also stated that within Islam itself it is the name of God. And the Islamic Allah according to the Quran and Hadith is starkly different than Yahweh, the God of Israel and I would say of Christians as well.

Allah means god in general in Arabic. So we could say El and Allah are like Zeus and Jupiter.

So clearly since Allah is either the God of Islam or a generic god, and Yahweh is a specific God, the two words aren’t equivalent.

God bless

 

[Salibi]

Yahweh of Israel is Triune,

Really? This is news for the Jews.

Allah is the specific name for the god of Islam, w

Incorrect. Allah is a word, not a name.

Please see if you can provide evidence for your opinion backed by Church teachings as outlined in the Catechism.

 

[SeekerOfTruth7]

Although I agree that allusions to the Trinity can be found in the Old Testament, the ancient Jews before Christ were not Trinitarian and this knowledge of God was not revealed until the New Testament, and it was not cemented in a Council until a few centuries later.

Don’t know how this relates. We know as Catholics that Yahweh is triune. So this has no bearing on the conversation.

The Catholic Church officially recognizes that Muslims worship the same God as we do. That doesn’t mean there aren’t major doctrinal differences but Muslims invoke the God of Abraham, and the God of Abraham is the true God.

The Church acknowledges that Muslims worship the God of Abraham in the fact that the God of Abraham is the God of Israel who is the One God.
But with further revelation in the Person of Jesus Christ, we now know that the God of Abraham is the Triune God, Father, Son, and Spirit. And with that further revelation comes further responsiblity. If a Muslim is ignorant of the Trinity and has no knowledge of the Trinity, but worships the One God of Abraham, then yes he worships the same God through ignorance. But if a Muslim knows of the Trinity and yet he denies it, then he does not worship the true God for he is no longer ignorant and now culpable for his sin.
Here is a good video on this:

If our standard for worshiping the true God was that a person had to have a perfect understanding of God, then nobody who ever lived would be qualified, because nobody has a perfect understanding of God or a perfect comprehension; not even the angels and saints in Heaven. If God could be comprehended then he would not be God.

Never said this. But we are held accountable for what we know. And if the Gospel has been proclaimed to us, and the identity of the Son has been proclaimed and shown, then we are accountable if we reject that and worship something else the the Triune God

God bless

 

[SeekerOfTruth7]

Yahweh of Israel is Triune,

Further revelation in the Person of Christ revealed this. I am not a Jew, therefore in the revelation of the New Testament and the revelation in the Tradition handed on through the Apostles we see that Yahweh of Israel is Triune and always has been. New for a Jew has no bearing on a Catholic.

Incorrect. Allah is a word, not a name.

A name is first and foremost a word. But to answer the question better let me ask a question: Is the Allah of Islam the same allah as Allah the Son?
In my question I am attempting to prove that Allah in Islam has a unique and specific identity that can’t be said of anything else. Yahweh is specific and one can’t say that Yahweh is the god of the pagan greeks, for Yahweh was not their God in that time.
Allah is specific and treated as if a name within Islam. Outside of Islam it is treated as a noun, therefore one can say that the Son is Allah.

 

[K9Buck]

That passage is not in the Quran. Therefore, I’m not sure of its significance.

 

[poche]

Wouldn’t YHVH be the God of Moses?

 

[TK421]

The Church acknowledges that Muslims worship the God of Abraham in the fact that the God of Abraham is the God of Israel who is the One God.
But with further revelation in the Person of Jesus Christ, we now know that the God of Abraham is the Triune God, Father, Son, and Spirit. And with that further revelation comes further responsibility. If a Muslim is ignorant of the Trinity and has no knowledge of the Trinity, but worships the One God of Abraham, then yes he worships the same God through ignorance. But if a Muslim knows of the Trinity and yet he denies it, then he does not worship the true God for he is no longer ignorant and now culpable for his sin.

This is reasonable, however a passing 3rd party knowledge of the Trinity (let’s say the average Muslim in Saudi Arabia is vaguely aware of the Christian belief in the Trinity, which they are) would itself not necessarily mean that they no longer worship the true God.

Or another way to put it: as creatures, we do not have the authority or the knowledge to judge the state of another person’s soul in order to make that call. This is something fully known only by God. And, moreover, as Catholics we are morally obligated to give people the benefit of the doubt. So we should assume innocence rather than assume guilt. There is no shame in assuming innocence and then it turns out we were wrong There is, however, shame in assuming guilt and then being wrong. There is no sin in the former, but there is sin in the later.

Therefore, we are morally obligated to assume that a Muslim does worship the true God, and then leave the rest in the hands of God.

 

[Niblo]

Therefore, we are morally obligated to assume that a Muslim does worship the true God, and then leave the rest in the hands of God.

We do indeed…after all, there is only the One.

What differs is our perception of God; and since His nature…his very Self…does not depend on how He is perceived He remains the One, true God, no matter how we describe Him. I see a bus that is red; someone else - at the same time - may see it orange, or some other hue. It’s the same bus.

 

[TK421]

@Niblo

Generally I agree with this. A person might have an incomplete understanding of God, but since everybody has an incomplete understanding of God, this in itself doesn’t mean that a person doesn’t invoke and worship the one true God. Eternity isn’t long enough for a creature to have a complete understanding of God. It is inherent to the Divine Nature that the more a person knows about God, the more there is to yet know.

BUT I do agree with SeekerOfTruth that if a person is fully culpable of divine revelation and rejects it anyway, then they are following their own version of God. Or rather: they are following their own ego.

However, a person is obligated to give another person the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Principium_Aeternum]

That sums it up.

 

[rf9661]

Yes…YHVH is the God of Moses, the God of Jacob, the God of Issac, and the God of Abraham.

 

[Dovekin]

with further revelation in the Person of Jesus Christ, we now know that the God of Abraham is the Triune God, Father, Son, and Spirit. And with that further revelation comes further responsiblity. If a Muslim is ignorant of the Trinity and has no knowledge of the Trinity, but worships the One God of Abraham, then yes he worships the same God through ignorance.

This correctly says things that are true, but I suspect there is a misunderstanding of the Trinity underneath it.

Yahweh is the God of Abraham, the one true God. It is a name for the Father, the creator.

The Son is also the one God. And he Spirit is the one God. But even if you do not acknowledge these persons, and you only know the Creator as the one God, you know the one God. Knowledge of the Trinity is not strictly necessary to know God. Denial of the Trinity may be a denial of God, but it may not be. Knowledge of God is knowledge of God, not of a part of God, but the one true God.

Having said that, there are signs of an awareness of the Trinity among Muslims, though it is not expressed with Christian language. There is no God but God and Muhammed is God’s prophet contains an acknowledgement of the Holy Spirit, who speaks through the prophets. It clearly affirms that God speaks through Prophets, which is characteristic of the Holy Spirit in our terminology. That they do not affirm the Holy Spirit as a person distinct from the Father does not mean that they do not know the Spirit. Rather they affirm the One God who is present in the Holy Spirit, identifying the substance though not the person.

 

[Niblo]

BUT I do agree with SeekerOfTruth that if a person is fully culpable of divine revelation and rejects it anyway, then they are following their own version of God. Or rather: they are following their own ego.

Ego plays a part, no doubt about that; demonstrated most clearly in the person who will not permit a fact – or even a well founded opinion – to stand in the way of a cherished prejudice.

One person’s ‘divine revelation’ can be another’s ‘fiction’. Perhaps the most we can hope of another – and expect of ourselves – is that we act according to our conscience; ideally, one that is well informed.

The CCC states:

‘Conscience is man’s most secret core, and his sanctuary. There he is alone with God whose voice echoes in his depths. Conscience is a judgement of reason by which the human person recognises the moral quality of a concrete act. A well-formed conscience is upright and truthful. It formulates its judgements according to reason, in conformity with the true good willed by the wisdom of the Creator.

‘Everyone must avail himself of the means to form his conscience; (and) a human being must always obey the certain judgement of his conscience.’ (Article 6: Moral Conscience; sections 1795; 1796; 1798 and 1800).

The one mind I know with any certainty is my own. I know the processes I went through when moving from one set of (cherished) beliefs to another. It was a long – and painful – journey. Most certainly, I availed myself of the means to form (to re-form) my conscience; and I formulated judgements accordingly.

Today, I act with a conviction that my judgements are correct; but with the possibility that they might well be wrong. Until something else comes along – something I have not experienced, or thought of; something that merits (even forces) a change of mind, a change of heart – then I will strive to obey my conscience.

The Exalted knows best!

 

[SeekerOfTruth7]

This is reasonable, however a passing 3rd party knowledge of the Trinity (let’s say the average Muslim in Saudi Arabia is vaguely aware of the Christian belief in the Trinity, which they are) would itself not necessarily mean that they no longer worship the true God.

While I would agree with this as I said before, my only caveat would be that if one denies the divinity of Christ out of ignorance, then I think they would be worshiping, at least in part, the One True God if they were Muslim or Jew. But, if they deny the Deity of Christ not out of ignorance, like quite a few Muslims do, I would only go as far to say that they are accountable to God for that. But I would never pronounce judgement or damnation on one no matter the sin. I would only say it is between them and God and all I can do pray and proclaim the Truth.

God Bless

 

[EricPH]

Exodus 3

God replied to Moses: I am who I am.* Then he added: This is what you will tell the Israelites: I AM has sent me to you.

Whatever we might call God, he is who he is - I AM.

 

[SeekerOfTruth7]

Yahweh is the God of Abraham, the one true God. It is a name for the Father, the creator.

This is not necessarily true. There has been discussion that Yahweh is actually the name for the whole of the Trinity, hence why Jesus is identified as Yahweh throughout the New Testament. If Yahweh was just the name of the Father then Jesus wouldn’t be identified as Yahweh for that would be heretical, saying that Jesus is the Father.

The Son is also the one God. And he Spirit is the one God. But even if you do not acknowledge these persons, and you only know the Creator as the one God, you know the one God. Knowledge of the Trinity is not strictly necessary to know God.

I wholeheartedly disagree! What is the point of evangelism then? We proclaim the Gospel, which contains the revelation of God in the Person of the Son, declaring the Triunity of God. Denying the Trinity out of ignorance yet worshiping the God of Abraham would indeed be worshiping the One God ignorantly. But denying the Trinity after learning of it with clarity then makes one accountable to God. It is as St John the Apostle said: " No one who denies the Son has the Father; everyone who confesses the Son has the Father also"
If one denies the the Deity of the Son after obtaining a knowledge of it, then they deny the Son, and now that results in denying the Father.

These type of language bothers me greatly, for it seems to imply a lack of need of evangelism to Muslims. Why would I preach the Gospel when they have the true God? IF they have the true God, why would I deny their Prophet? These issues are a hindrance to the Catholic Church and the proclamation of the Gospel she proclaims.
In the same line of reasoning, could one say that Jehovah’s Witnesses have the One True God? They worship the One God of Abraham…yet deny the Deity of Jesus…are they in truth?

 

[Dovekin]

There has been discussion that Yahweh is actually the name for the whole of the Trinity…

I have not seen that discussion. I tend to think of names as personal rather than substantial, but that might be wrong. If I had to guess, it sounds like adonai is being equated with Yahweh in an inappropriate way.

I wholeheartedly disagree! What is the point of evangelism then? We proclaim the Gospel, which contains the revelation of God in the Person of the Son, declaring the Triunity of God.

The point of evangelization is to bring people to a knowledge of Jesus, who reveals God to us in ways that go beyond the knowledge we can gain on our own. To bring the Holy Spirit to them. Nothing I have said eliminates that imperative to share with people who know only the Father.