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freeRadical
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oh, it’s “old economics”, okay.
Your link is dead by the way. Even if it wasn’t, I doubt there is much “research” being done there.
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Your link is dead by the way. Even if it wasn’t, I doubt there is much “research” being done there.
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freeRadical
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Well, you can thank the government, the banking system, and the Federal Reserve for sub-prime mortgages.Good point here… OK, legitimate as I believe he meant, would refer to the opposite of the con games such as sub-prime mortgages. An arms-length, good-faith, conscientious transaction.
I don’t see what that has to with free markets, free enterprise, and private ownership of the means of production.
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ThomasJMullally
Guest
Sorry, it is… www.happyplanetindex.org .oh, it’s “old economics”, okay.
Your link is dead by the way. Even if it wasn’t, I doubt there is much “research” being done there.
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ThomasJMullally
Guest
They are all to blame, they work together, the government regulators and the private bankers. At this point, none of them are working for the common good. Sound like the attribute of a certain economic system, that has taken over the government?Well, you can thank the government, the banking system, and the Federal Reserve for sub-prime mortgages.
I don’t see what that has to with free markets, free enterprise, and private ownership of the means of production.
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freeRadical
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That is just some index trying to measure well-being, which is very hard to do because people have different definitions of well-being.Sorry, it is… www.happyplanetindex.org .
I don’t see what that has to do with what we are talking about, which is economic systems and clearly defined terms such as productivity and wealth which you have just hand waved and dismissed as “old economics” and we should listen to the “new economics” at the HPI. The HPI is not an economic system, it is just an index trying to measure their definition of well-being.
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freeRadical
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Government regulators and private bankers do not equal free markets, free enterprise, and private ownership of the means of production.They are all to blame, they work together, the government regulators and the private bankers. At this point, none of them are working for the common good. Sound like the attribute of a certain economic system, that has taken over the government?
Taken over the government? Yeah, right. More like the government has taken over the economic system, which is the problem.
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ThomasJMullally
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Well, it is a very sane definition, and one in line with Church teaching…That is just some index trying to measure well-being, which is very hard to do because people have different definitions of well-being.
I don’t see what that has to do with what we are talking about, which is economic systems and clearly defined terms such as productivity and wealth which you have just hand waved and dismissed as “old economics” and we should listen to the “new economics” at the HPI. The HPI is not an economic system, it is just an index trying to measure their definition of well-being.
I was a libertarian in an earlier life. But times have changed. The threat to liberties now is no longer led by the government.
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magnet
Guest
How does one create wealth by travelling to the store on a breezy day whether walking or driving? In both cases, you are burning energy. And what do you have in the end? Fatigue and/or a thinner wallet. How is wealth created when you take the time to thank God? Are you any better off economically?Here is my answer:
Wealth is created when you walk a mile to the store on a breezy day instead of driving. Wealth is created when you forget to look at your email. Wealth is created when you gaze at the stars. Wealth is created when you take the time to thank God, for the best things that you have.
Wealth is created when you save surplus after your basic needs are met. Investing that surplus in an income producing instrument takes you on the road to creating even more wealth. Consuming can send you to the poor house. Investing wisely means you have not thrown your money down a rat hole such as would happen if you blew your surplus in Las Vegas or bought lottery tickets.
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freeRadical
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But it has nothing to do with economic systems, which is what we are talking about.Well, it is a very sane definition, and one in line with Church teaching…
Well, I was never a libertarian and I’m not one now.I was a libertarian in an earlier life. But times have changed. The threat to liberties now is no longer led by the government.
Oh, really. Then where is the threat to liberty coming from?
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Seraphim73
Guest
Trite. But in the context of this discussion how is wealth created?Here is my answer:
Wealth is created when you walk a mile to the store on a breezy day instead of driving. Wealth is created when you forget to look at your email. Wealth is created when you gaze at the stars. Wealth is created when you take the time to thank God, for the best things that you have.
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freeRadical
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Actually, it is even simpler than that. Wealth is created any time a voluntary trade happens.Wealth is created when you save surplus after your basic needs are met. Investing that surplus in an income producing instrument takes you on the road to creating even more wealth. Consuming can send you to the poor house. Investing wisely means you have not thrown your money down a rat hole such as would happen if you blew your surplus in Las Vegas or bought lottery tickets.
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ThomasJMullally
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Anyway, what the HPI measures for countries is: life expectancy X experienced well-beingThat is just some index trying to measure well-being, which is very hard to do because people have different definitions of well-being.
I don’t see what that has to do with what we are talking about, which is economic systems and clearly defined terms such as productivity and wealth which you have just hand waved and dismissed as “old economics” and we should listen to the “new economics” at the HPI. The HPI is not an economic system, it is just an index trying to measure their definition of well-being.
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Code:
ecological footprint
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freeRadical
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I am familiar with the HPI. I just don’t see how it has anything to do with what we are talking about in this thread.Anyway, what the HPI measures for countries is: life expectancy X experienced well-being
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The US is low on the list…Code:ecological footprint
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Seraphim73
Guest
Then forget those terms. Wealth is created when man applies his God given faculties to his God given resources to produce a value added good or service. A simple example. A baker takes his God given resources of flour, water and eggs. He then applies his God given faculties, time and skill to produce bread. The consumer is then willing to pay more for the bread than the total value of the flour, eggs and water. And the beauty of a free market system is both parties gain from the exchange. For the baker the money he charges is worth more to him than his time and resources used to produce the bread, and for the consumer the bread worth more to him than the money he gives the baker for it. It’s a win for both parties.I am sorry, I just do not like the empiricism inherent in terms such as productivity, employment, income, GDP. These are old economics, they only consider the way to pile up more widgets… pls consider the research at: www.happyplanetfoundation.org
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ThomasJMullally
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Incorrect… many transactions are lose-lose, made in an effort to build volume and “grow” or “expand” but finally regretted by BOTH parties.Actually, it is even simpler than that. Wealth is created any time a voluntary trade happens.
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freeRadical
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If the trade is “lose-lose” then why would two people voluntarily trade?Incorrect… many transactions are lose-lose, made in an effort to build volume and “grow” or “expand” but finally regretted by BOTH parties.
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ThomasJMullally
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Yes, that is a nice, legitimate, positive transaction. I wish capitalism would stay as simple as that!Then forget those terms. Wealth is created when man applies his God given faculties to his God given resources to produce a value added good or service. A simple example. A baker takes his God given resources of flour, water and eggs. He then applies his God given faculties, time and skill to produce bread. The consumer is then willing to pay more for the bread than the total value of the flour, eggs and water. And the beauty of a free market system is both parties gain from the exchange. For the baker the money he charges is worth more to him than his time and resources used to produce the bread, and for the consumer the bread worth more to him than the money he gives the baker for it. It’s a win for both parties.
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ThomasJMullally
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External pressures-- to perform, produce, pay, grow, not fall behind, etc…If the trade is “lose-lose” then why would two people voluntarily trade?
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freeRadical
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Do you have any examples of this? Do you know what voluntary trade is? Or even trade for that matter?External pressures-- to perform, produce, pay, grow, not fall behind, etc…
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ThomasJMullally
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Well, there are the sub-prime mortgages. Do you watch the news?Do you have any examples of this? Do you know what voluntary trade is? Or even trade for that matter?
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