Is Christ Spiritually Present in Protestant Communion? (POLL)

[Dan-Man916]

Ashley:

Christ is the head of all CHRISTian churches and as I said above, the Catholic way is not the only way to Christ. I came on these forums to try and get a better understanding of the Catholic faith purely from an interest in it, not with any intentions of converting to it. After reading many things on here I sincerely feel sorry for those wishing to convert to such an elitest group of Christians.

As a former evangelical Christian, I can understand why you are upset. I was at one time yoo because everything I heard sounded holier than thou and all high and mighty and very condescending.
For me, though, I came to understand that my perceptions were based on a lot of misunderstanding. Looking at it now, while these comments may seem high and mighty, i can see them in the context they are said, and i honestly don’t think that is the case anymore.
it took me quite a while to learn and understand why Catholics were saying what they were saying.

to try to explain, it is like speaking to someone who believes in wicca. You tell them that Christ is the only way to salvation, and that you only hope they come to the truth that you feel in your heart.
When Catholics say what they say, it is kind of the same thing.
You might feel indignant because you don’t see yourself as the pagan (and you’re not). But that is the dynamic going on here.

just as it would take the pagan time to understand where you’re coming from as an evangelical, it would take the same effort to understand why Catholics beleive that the protestant denominations and the belief in sola scriptura is the wrong interpretation of what Jesus preached about what a personal relationship with him means.

i hope that kinda makes sense.

 

[Ubipetros]

Catholics no longer remember to complete the phrase “Real Presence” and so confusion comes in to this discussion. Formerly, the phrase used was “Real AND SUBSTANTIAL” presence.

So, is Christ’s presence REAL in the people gathered in prayer at the Mass, in the person of the priest, in the Word??? EMPHATICALLY YES!!! Is He present in the same way as in the Eucharist? EMPHATICALLY NO!!!. In the Eucharist, His presence is BOTH REAL and SUBSTANTIAL. His very substance - Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity is present in the Eucharist - to the exclusion of any other substance.

Now, I believe this allows my answer to be YES, Jesus is really, spiritually present in the communion of our Protestant bretherern. Surely the pious prayer and intentions of the Protestents to honor Jesus’ command to “do this…”, no matter how incomplete when compared to the Sacrament, are pleasing in the eyes of God. He surely will be faithful to BE PRESENT in their pious prayer. Does this mean he is substantially present in their grape juice and wafer? EMPHATICALLY NO!!!

 

[YADA]

Hello to all,

After months of viewing, reading and pondering many forums, this is my first post!

I think that this is a difficult question and may not be the question to ask. I do not think we can say Christ ‘is’ or ‘is not’ in a Protestant Communion, ‘Real Pressence’ or ‘spiritually’. Why you might ask would I say this?.

As Catholics, we can speak for what we know to be true. Christ is present body, blood and soul, (truely present) in the Eucharist. We know this because Jesus instituted the Eucharist, the Church has taught this, the Early Church Fathers confirm the belief and 2000 years of Church practice give assurance. So we can attest to the validity of the Eucharist, properly consecrated by the priest.

What I am not sure we can do is limit God’s ability to work in the world. The Father, Jesus, the Holy Spirit can be whereever, whenever and however in this world and worlds we know not. I view this as saying someone is not in heaven, the Church would never presume to say who was not in heaven. It is not for the church to judge. The Church has a duty to teach and affirm what it is to be a Christian, live a Christian life and proclaim the good news of salvation. The Church affirms and teaches the Truth of the Eucharist but if the Holy Spirit works to create the true species in another way we do not know and cannot judge. We do not hold God captive adn we do not set His limits.

I offer these thoughts in the Peace of Christ. For me I will share the truth of the Eucharist as found in the Catholic Church. We know he is there. I will not seek Him somewhere else. With assurance I can offer that to our seperated brethren…come home to the table…be sure

 

[Malachi4U]

WhiteDove:

Is Christ Spiritually Present in Protestant Communion?

Do you mean in protestant communion or when protestants gather together?

In their communion remembrance no, wherever they are yes.

All protestant communion is symbolic only.

 

[Ubipetros]

Can Christ be spiritually present in non-sacramental symbols? I most certainly believe that when I make the sign of the cross in a crowded restraunt that Christ is making himself spiritually present to me, and to those who witness this trinitarian prayer. Is it a sacrament - no. Does it bring about the reality it symbolizes - no. Is Christ really present in the action - spiritually I believe yes. So why not in the Protestant communion service?

Another way to look at it is to see Protestant communion as a manifestation of the Word. Surely Charity requires us to believe that Protestants are attempting (albeit in an incomplete, non-sacramental way) to fulfill the Word of God - “do this…”. So, in a way that is not as full as ours, their communion is a physical manifestation of the Word…surely worthy of God’s spiritual presence. I can’t imagine why God would withold His spiritual presence from such a pious act. I only wish that Protestants would all come to see the Truth of the Church and come into full Communion. I can only imagine how the world would be changed if our Protestant brethern were able to tap into the converting power of the Eucharist!

 

[Bryan]

I’m personally tired of hearing the word “protestant” used. This whole poll is nonsense…mainly because not all “protestants” believe the same things. Come on people, you guys know this, so why do you continue to make such pointless polls? Lutherans beleive in real presence during communion, while baptists don’t, etc. And yes, the Lutheran communion is sacramental. The body and blood of Christ are present (not a symbol) and the left-overs are dealt with in the same way as the Catholic Eucharist left-overs.

Stop blanketing all protestants, if you want to talk specifics then do it…but do NOT blanket all protestants. As a Lutheran, it upsets me to hear the Lutheran communion said to be the same as the Baptist communion. They aren’t, even the RC Church recognizes that.

 

[Dan-Man916]

Bryan:

I’m personally tired of hearing the word “protestant” used. This whole poll is nonsense…mainly because not all “protestants” believe the same things.
Stop blanketing all protestants, if you want to talk specifics then do it…but do NOT blanket all protestants. As a Lutheran, it upsets me to hear the Lutheran communion said to be the same as the Baptist communion. They aren’t, even the RC Church recognizes that.

they do have one thing in common, though.
they protest against the Catholic Church.
What they protest about may be different, but they all have this as their common denominator.

 

[StephiePea]

I was protestant for 20 years, and crackers and juice once a month was our view of communion…I’m not saying Christ couldn’t choose to make his real presence known here, but since protestants don’t believe this anyway, I don’t think he does.

And since protestants don’t confess formally, most aren’t in a state to take true presence communion anyway

 

[StephiePea]

Dan-Man916:

they do have one thing in common, though.
they protest against the Catholic Church.
What they protest about may be different, but they all have this as their common denominator.

Please keep in mind that most protestants don’t have a clue about what the catholic church teaches…they don’t know if it is different or the same or what…and they aren’t against it, they are just uneducated about it

 

[Philthy]

WhiteDove:

Is Christ Spiritually Present in Protestant Communion?

Sorry - the question is a little too vague.

What is “spiritually present”? When/where is Christ not spiritually present?

Spiritually present as opposed to physically present?

Present in a significantly different way than when “2 gather in his name”?

Communion? The union of the members or the actual host itself?

Ifyou were simply trying to ask if there is a substantial difference between Protestant communion ceremonies and the Eucharist of the Mass, I say yes, absolutely.

 

[Bryan]

Please, all of you do me a favor and read this website…

orthodoxlutheran.fws1.com

I’m not saying I agree with all of it at all, but it will hopefully get you guys to understand that Lutherans are not Protestants and just because they have a problem with the Catholic Church, that doesn’t group them together. The views of different parts of the RC Church contradict eachother, are they not catholic either?

Lutherans, in essence, are Catholic…more so than protestant. Remember, the Lutheran train of thought has been around since the first century, it just wasn’t give a name until Martin Luther came along.

 

[Anne]

Bryan:

Please, all of you do me a favor and read this website…

orthodoxlutheran.fws1.com

I’m not saying I agree with all of it at all, but it will hopefully get you guys to understand that Lutherans are not Protestants and just because they have a problem with the Catholic Church, that doesn’t group them together. The views of different parts of the RC Church contradict eachother, are they not catholic either?

Lutherans, in essence, are Catholic…more so than protestant. Remember, the Lutheran train of thought has been around since the first century, it just wasn’t give a name until Martin Luther came along.

Bryan, LUTHERANS are protestant!
lutherans ARE protestant!
lutherans are PROTESTANT!
GOD BLESS

 

[Bryan]

I hope you are being sarcastic.
If not…
Anne, don’t be so naive.
It’s unattractive.

 

[StephiePea]

Bryan:

I hope you are being sarcastic.
If not…
Anne, don’t be so naive.
It’s unattractive.

Bryan,

any christian denomination that isn’t catholic is protestant…I was Lutheran, and I was protestant.
What is your defination of protestant?

 

[bryang]

StephiePea:

Bryan,

any christian denomination that isn’t catholic is protestant…I was Lutheran, and I was protestant.
What is your defination of protestant?

Um, Are you saying that the Orthodox Church is protestant?

FWIW, As a protetant I agree that Christ is present but not REALly present.

 

[Katholikos]

StephiePea:

Please keep in mind that most protestants don’t have a clue about what the catholic church teaches…they don’t know if it is different or the same or what…and they aren’t against it, they are just uneducated about it

Puhleeeeeze! What is your authority for these statements?

True - most protestants don’t have a clue about what the Catholic Church teaches, but that doesn’t stop them from attributing outrageous beliefs to the Church and repeating these erroneous beliefs authoritatively at every opportunity, as if they were experts in the matter.

And – most are against it and uneducated about it.

To paraphrase Bishop Sheen, they hate what they wrongly believe the Catholic Church to be and hate what they wrongly think she teaches. Yes, I do mean “hate.” Been there, done that.

The Catholic Church was founded by Christ and teaches what the Apostles taught. No more, no less.

JMJ Jay
Ex-Southern Baptist, ex-agnostic, ex-atheist, ecstatic to be Catholic!

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

Bryan:

… hopefully get you guys to understand that Lutherans are not Protestants and just because they have a problem with the Catholic Church, that doesn’t group them together. The views of different parts of the RC Church contradict eachother, are they not catholic either?

It isn’t just a difference of view, Bryan, it’s a difference in doctrine. Martin Luther was the Father of Protestantism.

Lutherans, in essence, are Catholic…more so than protestant. Remember, the Lutheran train of thought has been around since the first century, it just wasn’t give a name until Martin Luther came along.

…The Lutheran train of thought developed, in Martin Luther, into an outright error and heresy. In his arrogance, he claimed to be the arbitor of Truth, left the Church, and founded his own denomination, under his own name, with his own man-made doctrines. Others may have thought about it, but Martin Luther acted upon it. Yes, the Lutheran Church retained many Catholic beliefs. It also rejected some. That means it is no longer Catholic.
When one protests the Church’s Truths and creates new ones and establishes a new church, that new church is certainly protestant.

 

[Annunciata]

JGC:

Catechism of the Catholic Church

817 In fact, “in this one and only Church of God from its very beginnings there arose certain rifts, which the Apostle strongly censures as damnable. But in subsequent centuries much more serious dissensions appeared and large communities became separated from full communion with the Catholic Church - for which, often enough, men of both sides were to blame.” The ruptures that wound the unity of Christ’s Body - here we must distinguish heresy, apostasy, and schism - do not occur without human sin:

Where there are sins, there are also divisions, schisms, heresies, and disputes. Where there is virtue, however, there also are harmony and unity, from which arise the one heart and one soul of all believers.

818 “However, one cannot charge with the sin of the separation those who at present are born into these communities [that resulted from such separation] and in them are brought up in the faith of Christ, and the Catholic Church accepts them with respect and affection as brothers. . . . All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”

Thank you for posting this…it can serve as a reminder too all! Annunciata p.s. I did vote no but after reading this, I realized that the question was “is Christ Spiritually Present”
big difference than being fully present-Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity.

 

[PaulDupre]

Bryan:

Stop blanketing all protestants, if you want to talk specifics then do it…but do NOT blanket all protestants. As a Lutheran, it upsets me to hear the Lutheran communion said to be the same as the Baptist communion. They aren’t, even the RC Church recognizes that.

Hi Bryan,
I agree with you that we shouldn’t lump all non-Catholics together when talking about specific issues. The various non-Catholic communities have such widely disparate beliefs, it is hard to believe they all claim to derive those beliefs from scripture!

That being said, the reason we tend to lump them together so often is because of what they DON’T believe rather than what they DO believe. Generally they don’t believe in The Real and Substantial Presence, the communion of saints, most of the sacraments, authority of the Church to bind and loose etc. And those are the things they attack us on most often.

Lutherans and Anglicans started out believing in most of what Catholics believe (e.g.: Martin Luther was strongly devoted to the Blessed Virgin and commissioned a relief carving of her assumption into heaven for his gravestone) but over time, without a divinely guided magisterium they continue to drift ever further away from historical Christianity. Compare what the mainlines believed in 1900 with what they believe now (especially as regards morals), and you will be shocked.
Grace to you,
Paul

 

[SPOKENWORD]

To me communion is a representation[a memorial] a spiritual union. A union between me and our Lord and a rememberence for what He did for me at the cross.Jesus now lives and dwells in me, for I am the temple of the living God. .