Is contraception the answer to reducing abortions?

[Scottgun]

A disservice is simply calling your children “evil” and pretending like they aren’t engaging in what 99.9% of unmarried children do when they go out on Friday nights. I refuse to just bury my head in the sand and hope that my rants about the evils of premarital sex and an enternity in hell for rounding second will be enough to discourage my children (it won’t be, children rarely think in terms of eternity, they are impulsive and think in the here and now)… But you got your way of parenting I got mine…

In other words, against the power of Mordor, there can be no victory, so let’s just join him.

 

[fix]

A disservice is simply calling your children “evil” and pretending like they aren’t engaging in what 99.9% of unmarried children do when they go out on Friday nights.

Where did I call any person evil? I am not pretending anything. I said bad actions happen.

I refuse to just bury my head in the sand and hope that my rants about the evils of premarital sex and an enternity in hell for rounding second will be enough to discourage my children (it won’t be, children rarely think in terms of eternity, they are impulsive and think in the here and now)… But you got your way of parenting I got mine…

How is accepting we each have dignity and giving more credit to young people burying one’s head? The problem seems to be you think acting correctly is some pie-in-the-sky ideal. It is not some out of reach ideal.

And do you think contraception really will make children safer?

 

[Jennifer123]

Forgive me if this has already been discussed - but according to the Guttmacher Institute, the research arm of Planned Parenthood, a majority of women who get abortions had been using contraception:
prolifeaction.org/cinta/case.htm

If a woman is already using contraception to avoid getting pregnant, the leap to getting an abortion when the contraception fails is not a great one. Contraception obviously begets abortion.

 

[D317]

Forgive me if this has already been discussed - but according to the Guttmacher Institute, the research arm of Planned Parenthood, a majority of women who get abortions had been using contraception:
prolifeaction.org/cinta/case.htm

If a woman is already using contraception to avoid getting pregnant, the leap to getting an abortion when the contraception fails is not a great one. Contraception obviously begets abortion.

Amen Jen!

 

[brycelaliberte]

A disservice is simply calling your children “evil” and pretending like they aren’t engaging in what 99.9% of unmarried children do when they go out on Friday nights. I refuse to just bury my head in the sand and hope that my rants about the evils of premarital sex and an enternity in hell for rounding second will be enough to discourage my children (it won’t be, children rarely think in terms of eternity, they are impulsive and think in the here and now)… But you got your way of parenting I got mine…

Are you saying you have no trust in your children at all? That is very sad.

Your way of parenting… Well, I’d be ashamed to call you my parent, to be truthful.

 

[hasikelee]

A disservice is simply calling your children “evil” and pretending like they aren’t engaging in what 99.9% of unmarried children do when they go out on Friday nights. I refuse to just bury my head in the sand and hope that my rants about the evils of premarital sex and an enternity in hell for rounding second will be enough to discourage my children (it won’t be, children rarely think in terms of eternity, they are impulsive and think in the here and now)… But you got your way of parenting I got mine…

Children? I hope your use of the term does not indicate that your “children” are minors! Have you considered the legal implications of this, especially if you have sons?

Also, your use of 99.99% is a complete inaccuracy. The only statistic that actually even gets near 99.99% is that of being raped, sexually harassed or molested as a young girl to womanhood. Perhaps, if you have daughters, you should take that into account, instead of equipping them with chemicals or latex that even the CDC and Guttmacher institute admit isn’t entirely effective.

 

[lukewarm]

Are you saying you have no trust in your children at all? That is very sad.

Your way of parenting…** Well, I’d be ashamed to call you my parent, to be truthful**.

Ohh to be truthful… or just vindictive and nasty?

Go ahead and bank on your children being good boys and girls and not didling each other until they’re legally married in their late 20’;s, good luck with that pipe dream… Hopefully someone with good enough sense will show them how to protect themselves from the ill effects of the innevitable “lapse” they WILL have.

It’s irresponsible parents like you that makes it mandatory to teach children in our schools what should be taught by parents…

 

[lukewarm]

Children? I hope your use of the term does not indicate that your “children” are minors! Have you considered the legal implications of this, especially if you have sons?

Also, your use of 99.99% is a complete inaccuracy. The only statistic that actually even gets near 99.99% is that of being raped, sexually harassed or molested as a young girl to womanhood. Perhaps, if you have daughters, you should take that into account, instead of equipping them with chemicals or latex that even the CDC and Guttmacher institute admit isn’t entirely effective.

I don’t even know what this post means, it makes no sense at all, children are minors and there are no legal implications at all for minor on minor trysts.

Consider the 99.99% statement me speaking in hyperbole to emphasize that it is very common, get off your rape nonsense that isn’t pertinent to the discussion at all and simple fear mongering.

 

[fix]

Go ahead and bank on your children being good boys and girls and not didling each other until they’re legally married in their late 20’;s, good luck with that pipe dream… Hopefully someone with good enough sense will show them how to protect themselves from the ill effects of the innevitable “lapse” they WILL have.

It’s irresponsible parents like you that makes it mandatory to teach children in our schools what should be taught by parents…

So, teaching kids to use each other as a means of pleasure is good for them and society? They cannot “help” themselves because they have no reason or intellect. Is that your understanding of people?

 

[lukewarm]

So, teaching kids to use each other as a means of pleasure is good for them and society? They cannot “help” themselves because they have no reason or intellect. Is that your understanding of people?

When did I say that?

I stopped responding to you because of your style of argument, stop attributing stuff to me that I never said, it’s not honest debate.

The two are not mutually exclusive, you can teach your children the virtues of chastity and show them how to protect themselves if they were to fail (which they probably will sorry to say). Same way I will teach my children not to drink but also teach them to call me if they do and don’t get behind a wheel.

Drinking = bad
Drinking + driving = much worse

premarital sex = bad
unprotected premarital sex = death wish

Really not a hard concept, you guys seem to have a very black or white, no middle ground view of the world and that is not good and not realistic.

 

[davidv]

Really not a hard concept, you guys seem to have a very black or white, no middle ground view of the world and that is not good and not realistic.

It is a black and white, because there is no grey with God on this subject.

 

[manualman]

As a former kid (and not one particularly able to resist peer pressure), let me say Thank you God for not giving me parents like Lukewarm! My parents and my catholic schooling gave me great instruction on the matter. Sex was explained as a wonderful bonding experience that permanently tied the souls of spouses together in a way that could never be severed. Attempts to sever it (divorce or extramarital sex) merely result in the person having a reduced capacity to love and receive love.

Is such teaching enough? No way. You also need to provide kids with a genuine catholic social environment where they experience peers who have the same values and also reject the prevailing culture of hedonism. Give them both and you will be shocked at what a teenager is capable of. On the other hand, if you assume they are just hormone controlled drones with no reason or self-control, then that is the kind of kid you will get.

 

[lukewarm]

In other words, against the power of Mordor, there can be no victory, so let’s just join him.

That isn’t what it’s saying at all…

I mean have you ever heard of the term throwing the baby out with the bath water? Is everything in your life so black and white? Do you junk your car if the air filter needs replacing? Is it that hard for you to accept that the vast majority of unmarried adolescents even adults engage in premarital sex? And a condom is the best way to protect them in the event that they do engage in intercourse?

You can teach abstinence and chastity and the benefit of condoms and contraception if they were to fail. The two are not mutually exclusive.

 

[lukewarm]

It is a black and white, because there is no grey with God on this subject.

Let me guess you’re married?

All the most outspoken people against sins like these are the people who don’t have to worry about it anymore. Like NFP most people who go on and on about it are people past the age of child bearing, not all but most.

 

[fix]

When did I say that?

I stopped responding to you because of your style of argument, stop attributing stuff to me that I never said, it’s not honest debate.

You are the one who claimed I called people evil when I did no such thing.

The two are not mutually exclusive, you can teach your children the virtues of chastity and show them how to protect themselves if they were to fail (which they probably will sorry to say). Same way I will teach my children not to drink but also teach them to call me if they do and don’t get behind a wheel.

But, that is not the analogy. The analogy would be more like saying do not take drugs, but if you do be sure to only use a clean needle.

Letting your child know you still love them and wanting to help them does not mean teaching them it is good to do wrong.

Drinking = bad
Drinking + driving = much worse

True. And fornicating bad, fornicating and using a device or a pill is worse as it allows one to keep doing bad and increases the chance more bad will happen as one continues to do what they ought not do.

premarital sex = bad
unprotected premarital sex = death wish

“Protected” sex ensures safety? How often? When the “protection” fails what happens then?

Really not a hard concept, you guys seem to have a very black or white, no middle ground view of the world and that is not good and not realistic.

Well, living or dying is black and white. Acting correctly in this situation is black and white. Acting immorally is never good. Claiming “protection” will save you is incorrect.

 

[fix]

Just for info:

Condoms are a popularly promoted method of birth control, and are considered the bulwark against the spread of infectious STDs, including the HIV virus. A recent large survey of studies, however, documented only an 87% rate of pregnancy prevention and a 69% effectiveness rate in preventing the spread of HIV (with the range from 46% to 82%)[42]. Condoms offer no protection from STDs, like herpes and HPV, communicable from contact with areas of skin not covered by the condom.

 

[lukewarm]

True. And fornicating bad, fornicating and using a device or a pill is worse as it allows one to keep doing bad and increases the chance more bad will happen as one continues to do what they ought not do.

Real simple question - your 18 year old daughter fails your high moral standards (which you probably didn’t even preach until you were safely married after years of partying and low level debauchery, but that’s neither here nor there) and lies naked with her boyfriend or even worse some drunk dude at a frat party she barely knows. Are you telling me you would rather her not insist on him using a condom?

The rest is a smoke screen, answer that very simple question honestly.

 

[lukewarm]

Just for info:

“Laboratory studies have demonstrated that latex condoms provide an essentiallyimpermeable barrier to particles the size of STD pathogens.”

64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:gSjXWwh3LbkJ:www.cdc.gov/nchstp/od/condoms.pdf+condom+studies&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us

Not saying it is perfect, but answer my hypothetical if you will…

 

[fix]

Real simple question - your 18 year old daughter fails your high moral standards (which you probably didn’t even preach until you were safely married after years of partying and low level debauchery, but that’s neither here nor there)

High moral standards? You mean like love one another?

and lies naked with her boyfriend or even worse some drunk dude at a frat party she barely knows. Are you telling me you would rather her not insist on him using a condom?

The answer is do not lie naked with anyone. Why must I answer a type of Hobson’s choice? I note you see the action as absolutely inevitable. That premise you have is part of he problem.

The rest is a smoke screen, answer that very simple question honestly.

I see it is hard for you to think differently than what you see as “normal” behavior. Do you know that life is more than hedonism and relativism? There are many people, young people, who choose good.

 

[fix]

“Laboratory studies have demonstrated that latex condoms provide an essentiallyimpermeable barrier to particles the size of STD pathogens.”

64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:gSjXWwh3LbkJ:www.cdc.gov/nchstp/od/condoms.pdf+condom+studies&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=us

Not saying it is perfect, but answer my hypothetical if you will…

Yea, and when they break? And what about pathogens like herpes viruses? And what about the fact the more you grow accustomed to that “lifestyle” the more chances for failure and the more accustomed one becomes to using another as a mere instrument?