Is contraception the answer to reducing abortions?

[lukewarm]

I’m 16

Talk to me when your 22 son…

 

[lukewarm]

**No. **A second sin does not make the first one go away.

Besides, if she is going to have sex anyway, she should do it right and have fun with it; what is the good of committing a mortal sin if you have to fumble around with a nasty bit of latex that takes all the spontenaity out of the act? And then the nastiness of going looking for it in the bedsheets afterwards.

My take on it is, if you’re going to trade your eternal happiness for five minutes of fun, then that five minutes had better really be fun. Right?

WOW

Don’t ever question my parenting capabilities again…

At least you’re honest and can answer the question. One day you’ll think back to this bit of insanity and think “how the **** did I ever had that deluded mindset?” where I would be o.k. with my own daughter foregoing a condom just so she doesn’t “compound sins”. I would think risking her very life is a worse sin.

 

[jmcrae]

WOW

Don’t ever question my parenting capabilities again…

At least you’re honest and can answer the question. One day you’ll think back to this bit of insanity and think “how the **** did I ever had that deluded mindset?” where I would be o.k. with my own daughter foregoing a condom just so she doesn’t “compound sins”. I would think risking her very life is a worse sin.

She is risking her very life either way - condoms are not 100% effective even when used correctly, and I seriously doubt that someone who is drunk would use it correctly.

 

[RWMorris]

So no one can answer the hypothetical honestly? Let’s say your daughter has ignored your very admirable lecture on abstinance, she is not being raped, she is very willing participant in fornication (yes contrary to the popular opinion here women do like sex, have sexual urges, and can be willing participants in fornication without being “forced” or “pressured into it” I mean how friggin naive and frankly sexist). She is about to commit the act, do you want her to use a condom or no? Simple question requiring a simple answer. Either answer it or admit you are afraid to answer the question honestly and stop with the rest of this nonsense about homeless people, date rape, incest, murder and burning bodies and whatever other nonsense I’ve read here.

Of course I would want her to use a condom, but that changes nothing. She is still committing a sin and I am also. That is the problem with sin, it’s so easy and it’s like the best interest rate you’ll ever earn; over 100%. And it compounds continuously. But you haven’t seen anything until you start receiving the dividends. And the best is saved for last, an eternity of rewards, for me and my daughter.

 

[guanophore]

Because others, usually men, try to control how women use their bodies and threaten them with hell if the women don’t conform to their teachings.

This attitude is representative of a soul who has been very wounded by a controlling male (or more than one).

I think it is quite impossible for a man to understand and cooperate with the rhythms of a woman’s body without her consent. what man will succeed in taking vemperatures and checking mucosa viscosity without her help?

The reason fertility clinics want unified couples in this endeavor is because it requires a lot of discipline, and they know that the woman needs the support and encouragement. It is not about control, but cooperation!

 

[brycelaliberte]

Talk to me when your 22 son…

No problem. And it will be the same answer.

 

[guanophore]

This is dumbest load I’ve read yet and I’ve read a few doozies in this topic. It’s almost like some of you folks are incapable of making any sort of logical point.

Again:

Your daughter experiments with alcohol at a frat party she makes a mistake and is about to engage in sex with a borderline stranger. Do you want her to know how to protect herself? Or do you want to not choose the evil condom? Keep in mind that roughly 95% of all adolescents will engage in this type of activity (yes even your daughters and sons) at one point or another. This isn’t rape, incest, stealing from a pharmacy or murdering someone and burning the body. This is sexual exploration of which the overwhelming majority of the best children out there will patake in including your children no matter what you say to them.

IF you can’t answer that question you are just blowing smoke…

Yes, I want her to know how to protect herself. She should know that it is an inestimable risk to experiement with alcohol at a frat party. If she does not, then I have not done my job as a parent.

 

[1234]

If that’s the kind of environment you grew up in and/or regularly observe, then I feel very sorry for you. It is not, however, the norm.

It is the norm in a certain wing, by no means the majority, of the Catholic church. Members of that minority post on this forum.

The Catholic birth rate in this country does not differ significantly from the Protestant one. Protestants use birth control. So do the vast majority of Catholics.

 

[1234]

This attitude is representative of a soul who has been very wounded by a controlling male (or more than one).

Wrong.

I have been happily married (and only once) for a long time. I work mainly among men and have excellent relationships with them.

 

[wanner47]

Just an FYI I don’t read your rambling insane posts, they delve so far out of the realm of reality I simply can’t get through them, so you can stop responding to my posts and maybe get some mental help while you’re at it, you are like a crazy person…

Translation: You make excellent points that I know are true and that I am unable to rebut, so I resort to insults and brush-offs so I can feel smug and superior.

Lukewarm, in the scenario you postulate, I wouldn’t want my daughter to use contraception, because she’d just be adding another mortal sin to her conscience. If she got pregnant or contracted an STD as a result, then she’ll just have to live with the consequences of her bad choice. As a parent, it’d be irresponsible of me to try and “bail her out” when she makes extremely bad choices. How else will she learn?

Also, regarding this:

yes contrary to the popular opinion here women do like sex, have sexual urges, and can be willing participants in fornication without being “forced” or “pressured into it” I mean how friggin naive and frankly sexist

Who on this thread has said that women don’t like sex, don’t have sexual urges, and can’t be willing participants in fornication?

The answer is NO ONE HAS. You’re becoming delusional and making things up.

The Catholic Church teaches that women do like sex and have sexual urges because that is the way God made us! No argument there! I can honestly say that I like sex and I have sexual urges.

However, I’ve never seen the appeal or had the urge to fornicate. When I was unmarried (and a non-Catholic, btw), I didn’t think the benefits of fornication were worth the risks involved, because my parents took the time to TEACH me about those risks.

After I was married, I had no desire to fornicate because I had made a vow to love, honor, cherish, and be faithful to my husband – not to mention that the thought of sex with anyone BUT him sickens me. There is no appeal whatsoever.

That’s why marital love is such a beautiful thing – you give your whole self to your spouse and reap amazing benefits in return.

Teenagers are much smarter than you give them credit for, Lukewarm. But if you start out expecting the worst of them, that’s EXACTLY what you’re going to get.

You never did answer my earlier question, btw. If you do indeed love your children, why do you want to teach them a substandard way of protecting themselves from STDs and unplanned pregnancy?

 

[wanner47]

It is the norm in a certain wing, by no means the majority, of the Catholic church. Members of that minority post on this forum.

I have never seen a single post on this forum that so much as hints at such an attitude, nor have I observed this attitude in real life. Source, please?

The Catholic birth rate in this country does not differ significantly from the Protestant one. Protestants use birth control. So do the vast majority of Catholics.

Again, source, please.

And since when is Truth determined by majority vote?

 

[hasikelee]

Just an FYI I don’t read your rambling insane posts, they delve so far out of the realm of reality I simply can’t get through them, so you can stop responding to my posts and maybe get some mental help while you’re at it, you are like a crazy person…

Ah, my hopes that you were not a young troll have been dashed upon the rocks of scientific ignorance… and it was actually sooner than I thought. Saad!

Edit: Oh, it should be noted that “Saad” is Arabic for “Good Luck” and not a descriptive statement of someone’s prior postings.

 

[guanophore]

I would think risking her very life is a worse sin.

yes, risking her life is a worse sin. What jmcrae is talking about is a mortal sin, which will cause eternal death. If someone chooses to “experiment” with alcohol at a frat party, and one knows the effects of alcohol and frat boys (which any well educated young lady would know) then she is taking her life into her own hands. Should this be on the moral theology thread?

 

[guanophore]

No problem. And it will be the same answer.

Well, only if you don’t allow God any room to grow you up!

 

[IzzyIdle]

There is no evidence that an increase in education regarding contraception would decrease the number of abortions. In fact, the opposite is true.

Do Sex Education and Access to Contraception Cut Down on Abortion?

When one falls prey to a contraceptive mentality, then abortion is easier to justify simply as a backup plan. When one believes that contraception is contrary to the natural law, one also tends to believe that abortion is also contrary to the natural law.

…
Thank you, dear God, for 35 years and counting of safe and legal abortion and contraception.
Stop pretending that Catholics support your position and are of one mind on this issue
In fact, 35% of the women in America are Catholics and they obtain 32% of the abortions nationwide.
How you all can ignore this spiritual schizophrenia is a mystery to me.

 

[IzzyIdle]

That’s the problem. Properly used. And it’s bogus because if one lacks the formation and virtue to avoid fornicating, they ain’t going to have the virtue required to properly use contraceptives every time.

Sin makes you stupid. Meaning more abortions with or without contraceptives.

I don’t support the concept of sin. I don’t believe Jesus did either. I certainly don’t believe sex is sinful. You need to sell this idea to someone else.
Will you kindly support your last sentence with proof of your assertion. The rate of abortion in America is falling. No one is clear why but nobody who is sane or has brains is looking for this kind of sanctimonious blather as any kind of solution or explanation.
Your morality is no one’s imperative. Start at home. Catholic women make up 35% of the population and they have 32% of the abortions nationwide. If we listen to you, than only 3% of Cathoic women are not fornicators and sinners.
Can you not see the pure silliness of your assertions? Trust me, other people can.

 

[guanophore]

Wrong.

I have been happily married (and only once) for a long time. I work mainly among men and have excellent relationships with them.

Perhaps, then, you are just giving voice for the Culture of Death, on behalf of those who are not able to voice it. You are representing the values of the fallen world.

 

[guanophore]

I  don't support the concept of sin. I don't believe Jesus did either. I certainly don't believe sex is sinful. You need to sell this idea to someone else.

“I dont support the concept of sin”. Wow. Jesus is a liar, I guess? The idea of fornication is not for sale, so no need for buyers. Jesus taught that sex outside the sacrament of marriage is a sin.

Will you kindly support your last sentence with proof of your assertion.

For a person who will say “I don’t support the concept of sin” I doubt there is any proof that will suffice. The way we know what “sin” is only a result of Divine Revelation. If you refuse the Revelation, what “proof” is left?

The rate of abortion in America is falling. No one is clear why but nobody who is sane or has brains is looking for this kind of sanctimonious blather as any kind of solution or explanation.

You speak as the mouthpiece of the culture of death. The rate of abortion is falling because people of faith are stepping forward to storm the gates of hell. With Our Lady, help of Christians, we are in prayer every minute of every day that the crimson holocaust of 4000 lives taken daily in the US will stop, and that we may once again be One Nation Under God.

Your morality is no one’s imperative.

Please do not confuse valid moral commandments for God as belonging to the persons that follow them. Those of us that have accepted the 10 commandments recognize that they are, indeed, imperatives, and that there are temporal and permanent consequences for disobedience.

Start at home. Catholic women make up 35% of the population and they have 32% of the abortions nationwide. If we listen to you, than only 3% of Cathoic women are not fornicators and sinners.

It is shameful that people who call themselves Catholic will disgrace Christ in this matter.

Can you not see the pure silliness of your assertions? Trust me, other people can.

This wisdom of God is wiser than the foolishness of man.

 

[mikew262]

That isn’t what it’s saying at all…

I mean have you ever heard of the term throwing the baby out with the bath water? Is everything in your life so black and white? Do you junk your car if the air filter needs replacing? Is it that hard for you to accept that the vast majority of unmarried adolescents even adults engage in premarital sex? And a condom is the best way to protect them in the event that they do engage in intercourse?

You can teach abstinence and chastity and the benefit of condoms and contraception if they were to fail. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I agree with you, but you won’t find much support here. I’ve got the lumps and bruises to prove it.

I think a truly responsible parent needs to teach their children all the options, minus abortion. Emphasize abstinence first, but also educate on the other options.

 

[fix]

So no one can answer the hypothetical honestly? Let’s say your daughter has ignored your very admirable lecture on abstinance, she is not being raped, she is very willing participant in fornication (yes contrary to the popular opinion here women do like sex, have sexual urges, and can be willing participants in fornication without being “forced” or “pressured into it” I mean how friggin naive and frankly sexist). She is about to commit the act, do you want her to use a condom or no? Simple question requiring a simple answer. Either answer it or admit you are afraid to answer the question honestly and stop with the rest of this nonsense about homeless people, date rape, incest, murder and burning bodies and whatever other nonsense I’ve read here.

I answered you correctly once before. There is no choice to act immorally. The answer is do not have sex.

I find your reasoning peculiar. You draw a line at condom use, but not before. Why? You say getting drunk at a frat party is a mistake, but then claim such a person in such a state will make a “good” choice to use a condom. That makes little sense.

Again, the choice is not use a condom or not. The choice is have sex or not.