Is cultural marxism just a myth or conspiracy theory created by right wing conservatives?

[J_the_Centrist]

Ultimately, I despise them both as politics is a very destructive set of ideologies, identity politics in particular.
However, you are right and not all leftists want to merely control the poor. I guess not all rightists are warmongers either. Though both are such a rarity it makes one wonder why there aren’t more or why don’t they speak out more at least. That would really help heal this countries wounds but both have to look to interests first and I guess that’s what I’m driving at.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

The response was to a prior comment indicating that the rich do not pay a fair share. We can chat about the Rockefellers and other dynasties; but much of the wealth of the rich is from starting businesses from scratch. Take a look at the originator of Domino’s Pizza - no one handed him anything. Take a look at Bill Gates or any of the other wizards in the general area of computing - no one handed them anything.

Well, somebody handed them something because they sure got a lot out of our economy. And you can’t say it is all due to their hard work because: You hold up Bill Gates as an example. So let’s look at Bill Gates. His income was 11 billion in 2013. At the same time a sanitation worker with more than 5 years on the job earns 88K per year. So Bill Gates earns 125,000 times as much as the highest-paid sanitation workers. It is impossible that Bill Gates works 125,000 times as hard as even the laziest sanitation worker. So whatever Bill Gates has is due to his being very lucky and very blessed by God with native intelligence. And he knows it. He is quite modest about the degree to which he credits his own sacrifice for his success. He would never make the argument you are making here in his defense.

Clearly there is something about our total economic system that favors the rich because they are doing better and better each year at a faster rate than those who have less. The progressive tax system is not so progressive as to even out this trend. So why do you think income and wealth disparity is growing?

The bottom 40 to 50% have little or no skin in the game.

They have as much skin in the game as they are capable of giving.

It is the wealthy who invest in business, through direct ownership, stock ownership, and seed capital. And it is those businesses which give the bottom 50% a job.

And it the bottom 50% who give the wealthy the labor they need to do the great things they do. It is not so one-sided. The jobs are not charity, so don’t paint them as charity.

Shall we take away seed money, and reduce the number of jobs being created?

It is a question of where the money do the most good (which is what I think you are getting at here), it would do more good if that money were put into education for all, then more people could be in a position of creating more jobs for others.

Our tax system has generally been skewed to taxing the most from those who make the most.

But is it skewed “too much?” That is the question. The evidence presented by the growing income and wealth disparity says “no.”

 

[goodcatholic]

So Bill Gates earns 125,000 times as much as the highest-paid sanitation workers.

Can you honestly compare those two? Bill Gates was lucky I agree. To be born in ther US for a start. But his vision, creativity and intelligence were rewarded. Maybe 10 billion a year is too high but still.
I’m not rich but I don’t resent people like him becoming rich. The ones who are born with rich parents is a different matter.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

LeafByNiggle:

So Bill Gates earns 125,000 times as much as the highest-paid sanitation workers.

Can you honestly compare those two? Bill Gates was lucky I agree. To be born in ther US for a start. But his vision, creativity and intelligence were rewarded. Maybe 10 billion a year is too high but still.
I’m not rich but I don’t resent people like him becoming rich. The ones who are born with rich parents is a different matter.

I don’t resent Bill Gates being rich either. In fact I am more often defending him in this forum because he is regularly attacked for other things. But he is not the one who is decrying higher taxes, because as I said he is well aware of how fortunate he is. He is on record saying that people like him should pay significantly higher taxes. So I am a great admirer of Bill Gates. You say his vision, creativity, and intelligence were rewarded. Isn’t that what I said too? I said he was blessed by God with native intelligence. Blessed by God. Is this any reason to reward him further than he already is?

 

[Xantippe]

Here’s an interesting story:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/i-hel...invited-from-ucla.-heres-why./article/2011656

“I’m a conservative student at UCLA and a member of the Bruin Republicans. Last week, my club invited Milo Yiannopoulos to speak on campus as a fundraiser for our group. About 24 hours after making his invitation public, the leadership of the Bruin Republicans changed their minds and rescinded the invitation. Here’s what happened.”

"When the Bruin Republicans announced their decision to invite Yiannopoulos, and that his talk would be called “10 Things I Hate About Mexico,” I was distraught. Not because Yiannopoulos would be speaking on campus—it’s a free country and he has the right to say what he wants to, where he wants to, no matter how puerile or malicious he is.

"My objection was that I didn’t want my club hosting him.

"The question goes to the issue of why the Bruin Republicans exist. Is the club’s mission simply to provoke people? If so, Yiannopoulos would make perfect sense as a speaker. But then, so would Richard Spencer. Or Chris Cantwell. Or Ward Churchill. Provocation has an absolute value sign around it and once you make that your guidestar, there is no logical way to differentiate between provocateurs.

“I would argue that while the Bruin Republicans might provoke people with the speakers we host, that’s tangential to our true mission: To promote conservative ideas in the public square.”

"Part of that task means countering the liberal dogma that conservatives are racist troglodytes and demonstrating that Republicans aren’t all old, or white, or men—I’m a 21 year old Mexican-American woman—and explaining that at the end of the day, it’s ideas that matter, not identity politics.

“Hosting Milo Yiannopoulos would surely have undermined all of that.”

“Some members of the club took this as a loss, because disinviting Yiannopoulos was what liberals on campus had wanted. But this view misses the point: Conservative ideas do not exist simply to counter liberal ideas: They rest on bedrocks of human nature and philosophy. We don’t believe in free speech because progressives believe in curtailing speech. We don’t believe in limited government because progressives believe in big government. We believe these things because they are right and can be justified on their own terms. They are first principles. An ideological movement based around nothing but knee-jerk oppositionalism isn’t a movement at all. It’s a pose.”

This is a nice example of the conflict between alt-right tactics and long-term strategy, and how unnecessarily puerile and alienating alt-right tactics can be to people outside the alt-right bubble. Sure, if being racist and insulting Mexicans is the name of the game, I suppose it makes sense, but hopefully American conservatives have larger, nobler goals.

Also, again we have the mismatch between goals and methods–how exactly does being racist about Mexicans get us a more Christian, more Western-culture friendly US? If being more Christian and more Western is the goal, talk about how awesome Christianity and Western culture are.

 

[J_the_Centrist]

Also, again we have the mismatch between goals and methods–how exactly does being racist about Mexicans get us a more Christian, more Western-culture friendly US? If being more Christian and more Western is the goal, talk about how awesome Christianity and Western culture are.

You didn’t respond to my posts above so I’d thought I would ask something quite directly. Why don’t we address the aggressive left wing ideologies, prevalent for decades in the West, that created the Alt-Right? That’s really the best place to begin and I’m not even Alt-Right, nor nazi. I am neither Republican or Democrat and “politically homeless.” The left is more responsible for this movement then anyone else.

 

[otjm]

And absolutely nothing is standing in the way of Bill paying more taxes. He is intelligent enough to write a check, should he so desire.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

And absolutely nothing is standing in the way of Bill paying more taxes. He is intelligent enough to write a check, should he so desire.

I mentioned his position only to show how he does not need (or want) your defense of his taxes being lowered. So using him as an example does not further your cause.

 

[otjm]

I was born in the 40’s. By 7th grade, I was picking strawberries and beans. My money did not go to hamburgers and Cokes; it was saved as I was going to go to a Catholic high school. My money went partially to tuition and/or clothes for school. In high school, I worked evry Satruday caddying at a golg club; during the summer I added other part time jobs as there were no full time jobs in my area. I went to college seminary for my first two years, and in the summer I had a full time job working for a commercial supply company; the last two years of college I carried 20 to 22 semester hours, and worked 20 hours per week in a grocery store during school, and full time during the summers. I paid for my own car (as the college was 20 miles away - a used Datsun Bluebird - and when I graduated, I owed a little over $800 for the remainder of my tuition - which I paid off during my first year in the military (initial pay was $115/month; by the time I arrived in Vietnam, it was $214/month). I was the oldest of 4; my dad had a severe stroke while I was in the 6th grade, apparently from brain cancer. My mother started work after that, as a clerk in a manufacturing company, and we all worked; and our money went into the family coffers to get us all through Catholic grade school and high school; and all of us graduated from college.

Anything which is free is usually worth what one has paid for it. And that includes free college. There are plenty of issues as to the cost of college tuition and costs which need to be addressed, but free tuition is not one of them.

 

[otjm]

I am not interested in continuing to debate with you about wealth; the topic is about cultural marxism.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

I was born in the 40’s. By 7th grade, I was picking strawberries and beans. My money did not go to hamburgers and Cokes; it was saved as I was going to go to a Catholic high school. My money went partially to tuition and/or clothes for school. In high school, I worked evry Satruday caddying at a golg club; during the summer I added other part time jobs as there were no full time jobs in my area. I went to college seminary for my first two years, and in the summer I had a full time job working for a commercial supply company; the last two years of college I carried 20 to 22 semester hours, and worked 20 hours per week in a grocery store during school, and full time during the summers. I paid for my own car (as the college was 20 miles away - a used Datsun Bluebird - and when I graduated, I owed a little over $800 for the remainder of my tuition - which I paid off during my first year in the military (initial pay was $115/month; by the time I arrived in Vietnam, it was $214/month). I was the oldest of 4; my dad had a severe stroke while I was in the 6th grade, apparently from brain cancer. My mother started work after that, as a clerk in a manufacturing company, and we all worked; and our money went into the family coffers to get us all through Catholic grade school and high school; and all of us graduated from college.

Anything which is free is usually worth what one has paid for it. And that includes free college. There are plenty of issues as to the cost of college tuition and costs which need to be addressed, but free tuition is not one of them.

There are millions of people in this country who could tell a struggles-through-hardship story more compelling than yours. So using that story to support how much consideration you deserve in lower taxes is not convincing.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

I am not interested in continuing to debate with you about wealth; the topic is about cultural marxism.

It was you who posted:

In 2014, the top 1% (incomes in excess of $615,000) paid nearly half (45.7%) of the individual federal income taxes collected.

The top 20% (incomes above $134,400) contributed nearly 84% of all federal income taxes.

Those in the bottom 80% paid 15%, and the bottom 60% paid only 2%.

So it is kind of late to complain about my bringing in the subject of wealth and income.

 

[ChunkMonk]

It is a conspiracy fact. A theory implies it hasn’t been proven.

 

[steido01]

Indeed. I’m amazed at how little Boomers understand of the world they’ve created.

They grew up in literally the greatest time of financial prosperity and economic mobility in human history, benefited most from the explosion of social legislation (GI Bills, etc.) and entitlements (Social Security, Medicare, etc.), that have been created throughout the years to serve their population bubble as it ages, and will ‘depart’ before the bill comes due. Some even received a paycheck and free healthcare from the government for a conscripted year of training/travel and one year of service.

And how does the Millennial live?

Poor. Since the late 1960s-early 1970’s (when Boomers entered the workforce) wages have increased just 9%. In fact, about 80% of Americans earn $3,472 less per year today than even 15 years ago – yes, that’s in today’s dollars and adjusting for inflation! In 1968, the minimum wage was $1.60, or the equivalent of $10.55/hr in today’s dollars. Today’s minimum wage hasn’t increased since 2009: it’s $7.25. That’s an adjusted $3.30 difference. It means that, in today’s dollars, working a 40-hour week (good luck, if you’re going to school!) at minimum wage would gross $21,000/year in 1968, but less than $15,000/year today – and that’s before considering that taxes have only risen.

Meanwhile, rent has exploded by 10-25% or more. Internet and cell phone service (which are price-gauged by monopolies) are practically required for all jobs today. Education, which is now essential to procure a job with a living wage, has increased by 1120%, so most Millennials graduate with $36-80k of debt, which is usually loaned at absurdly-high interest 8-16%. Millennials will work until their 40s or 50s until they’ve paid it off. Want kids? A house? To live somewhere other than a parent’s basement? Even longer. (Note: Millennials tend to live in a parent’s, not parents’, basement; the Boomers are around 66% more likely to be divorced than Millennials.) Now to further Millennial plight, consider the Great Recession that Millennials have graduated into, coupled with the fact the Boomers are retiring later (thanks to improved healthcare subsidized by Millennials) and therefore using more Social Security than anyone expected. It’s not like a bank account, where you’re saving for your future self; the money that you pay in now is essentially ‘withdrawn’ by retired folks today. That’s right; what little money Millennials could be saving for their own retirement is actually subsidizing Baby Boomers’ post-professional lives. Talk about kicking a man when he’s down!

And those are just the overarching financial issues. Should an individual Millennial face any personal hardship, they may find themselves racking up credit card debt to boot.

 

[Inisfallen]

’ll put to you this way, when you have Ivy Leaguers with degrees telling factory workers to, “check your privilege” you are not only attacking the already economically disenfranchised but you also look stupid and incredibly stupid.

I’ve never heard or seen anyone with an Ivy League degree telling a factory worker to check his or her privilege. Has that happened? Can you provide an example?

 

[otjm]

That was not a complaint. It was a statement. Shall we return to the topic?

 

[J_the_Centrist]

I’ve never heard or seen anyone with an Ivy League degree telling a factory worker to check his or her privilege. Has that happened? Can you provide an example?
[/quote]

This is a reference from New York Magazine, which is no bastion of conservatism trust me, that I read just prior to the 2016 election. I never forgot it because it conveys exactly as to why Trump was, and still is, so popular with many and was thereafter elected. This statement is all too true among many people who are struggling and not particularly interested in hating the skin they’re in because of some imaginary privilege they’ve never experienced. Personally, other than some encounters with the police years ago, which I admit would’ve gone very differently if I were black or Latino, I never experienced this “privilege” and neither have millions of other whites either. If I ever succeed in life it’ll be because I work my butt off (which I do already and I am proud of that) and not some nonsense elites use only to divide and conquer. I never give up so I’ll be alright.
As I said, most on the left hate poor whites and poor people in general to be sure but special scorn is reserved for poor whites in particular and I have experienced it and so have millions of others as well. Hence, Trumps victory.
If you want to fight the Alt-Right then deal with the left wing culture which gave birth to it. If you want to argue that the child is more evil than the parent then ok fine, but you have to deal with the parent first. However, we have come to a point in our history where we are approaching a post PC era, whether the left likes it or not, so this matter must be approached delicately. Heck, I’ll even join you, provided you go after both parent (far left) and child (Alt-Right) equally. And again, I didn’t even vote for Trump and don’t vote at all and never will again. I loath politics but reality is reality.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

That was not a complaint. It was a statement. Shall we return to the topic?

OK, as for the original topic, I find the term “cultural marxism” to be such a hodgepodge of disparate concepts so as to be impossible to discuss in any meaningful way. There is no single unifying feature that they all share.

 

[ChunkMonk]

I’ve been told to check my privilage by college students before and I would kill for a factory job. Factory job… Lol. Most of us work entry level wage-Hell.

 

[goodcatholic]

and I would kill for a factory job

From what I’ve seen of factory jobs, I wouldn’t kill for one. Mind-numbingly repetitive, unforgivingly fast paced and your colleagues can exhibit passive aggressive tendencies due to the stress and boredom.