Is cultural marxism just a myth or conspiracy theory created by right wing conservatives?

[Brendan_64]

Modern day Marxists aren’t following the true culture of Communism so much as being useful idiots good only for destabilizing western nations.

I’m not even sure that they’re Marxists. Marx seemed to be primarily concerned with things like economics, property, means of production, labour and capital, not things like gender ideology.

 

[steido01]

No, because it’s an utterly meaningless salad of words!

It’s just a way to toss a “scary” label on an arbitrary grouping of people, as if assigning them a category gives their self-proclaimed enemies some magical power. But all it proves is that the far-right is just as illogically obsessed with race as the far-left. Both are reactionary, both rely on race-baiting, neither actually has a place in Christianity.

Look, labels are, like everything, a tool. They can be used to help us understand the world, or they can be abused to sow division. This is clearly a case of the latter. The alt-right individual in this thread even admits that he’s mongering for a literal war! Extremists want to sow division. This is unChristian behavior.

 

[steido01]

Seems it just depends on your political leanings. If you are on the right, it is a legitimate term, if you are on the left, it is just a term of vilification.

That’s overly-simplistic. I’m as conservative as one can get short of abandoning Christianity to worship Rand, and the best words I have for a term like ‘cultural Marxism’ are: useless, void of meaning, or downright stupid.

Old-school conservatism accepted the insane notion that being honorable losers was a desirable position.

When dignity remains intact, then something remains that is worth defending. As Churchill put it when he was asked to cut arts funding to support the war effort, he replied: “Then what are we fighting for?”

The Populist Right wants to strike back and win.

You don’t get to heaven by selling your soul to the devil. You’ll win nothing but condemnation for yourselves. And you’ll have earned it. Turn back and repent.

It’s hard for me to understand the logic of a) left-wing people do XYZ terrible things! b) let’s do XYZ, too!

Preach.

 

[J_the_Centrist]

One of the reasons (many) why I am leaving the RCC for Orthodox Christianity is because the Roman Church itself has become Cultural Marxist, especially with this Pope. It is true that the Church hasn’t given completely in to this ideology but it has, let’s say, relaxed its positions on everything from Islam and Judaism to divorce, yes I am aware of the Orthodox Church’s position on divorce. The point is, as the Muslims say, who are you to change it? I truly lament that I can no longer be apart of the Church any longer, it truly breaks my heart but the Church has changed so much in the past 50 years it is no longer even Saint Therese of Lisieux’s Church anymore, nor Maxiliamian Kolbe. It has become culturally Marxist with a Christian accent. It does have what other churches lack, however, and that is people from all nations truly within it, unlike the many ethnic centered churches I now attend. Perhaps that is why, because it has to accommodate all of these people and view points and not “offend” anyone even at the expense of offending the Gospel. If I am wrong about any of this then let God judge me and guide me to the right path, but it certainly seems that way to me with my human limitations and vision which is limited as all of ours is.

 

[pnewton]

One of the reasons (many) why I am leaving the RCC for Orthodox Christianity is because the Roman Church itself has become Cultural Marxist, especially with this Pope

I have to admit that is the most bizarre thing I have read in quite a while. I actually started to laugh until I realized that you said you were leaving. Anyone who would leave what they believe to be the Church Christ started over political stuff, watches too much political stuff. Was your faith in God or in politics?

 

[steido01]

Was your faith in God or in politics?

My greatest fear for the church, in general, is that too many of her children do not know the difference between the two.

 

[J_the_Centrist]

I do not watch “political stuff,” as you put it. I don’t even have cable TV and take polititics with a grain of salt. I haven’t voted in years and never, ever will vote again. I support no party and I no longer even identify myself as an “independent.” I only watch what happens in the world and the Roman Catholic Church has shifted in its ideology to a great extent in the past fifty years. The Orthodox Church is the only Church, that is, the only Church not to change itself to fit the times and seasons which is what every other Church, RRC included, has done. So your assertion is wrong and I would never vote for the Republican Party if that’s what you were thinking.

 

[J_the_Centrist]

I posted a comment above addressing this issue. I am not political in any way, in fact, I have nothing but contempt for politics and see it as little more than theater. However, this theater is exceedingly dangerous as it hold the lives of the entire world contained in its performance. I respect your opinion and if my motives were as you described I would indeed be ashamed but you are unfortunately wrong. Unfortunately, because I wish it were as simple as all that.

 

[pnewton]

I only watch what happens in the world and the Roman Catholic Church has shifted in its ideology to a great extent in the past fifty years.

The ideology of the Church is Jesus Christ and Him crucified. There is no political ideology. That is why I was confused by your post.

I am curious as to the coincidence of you using the term “cultural marxism” as if there was some meaning behind it, when you invent or come up with the same term used by political pundits without having watched them. It would be like me and someone totally unrelated coincidentally coining a term like ideological surfing.

 

[ATraveller]

Marx seemed to be primarily concerned with things like economics, property, means of production, labour and capital

‘Seemed’ is the key word. Marxist theories go beyond economics. It’s also applied to philosophy, history, literature and sociology.

Nationalisation, for instance, was always rather marginally connected with socialism. It existed before socialism . Leaving aside the armed forces (the earliest state enterprises) King Charles II nationalised the mails
[…]
The question of whether, say, the railways, are state-owned or not is a practical one, not an ideological one.

Roy Jenkins’s 1959 book ‘The Labour Case’ and Anthony Crosland’s ‘Future of Socialism’ correctly identified the left with moral and cultural revolution, and with dogmatic social egalitarianism. The lasting achievements (like them or not) of the 1964-70 Labour government were not economic or in the field of state ownership. They were : comprehensive schooling, an egalitarian political project of huge power, adopted (despite its utter educational failure) by the Tory Party as well. This issue is the true litmus test of modern politics, and is not merely Labour’s real Clause Four, but has become David Cameron’s Clause Four as well; the array of legal changes summed up (by a resentful Jim Callaghan) as ‘ the permissive society’ - simple, swift unilateral divorce, the de facto decriminalisation of cannabis (actually enacted, using a Labour template, by the Tories in 1971), the removal of the principle of punishment from the criminal justice system, the keystone of this being the abolition of capital punishment for heinous murder; the introduction of what rapidly became abortion on demand. This last would be followed by the prescription of contraceptive pills first to the unmarried and then to those under the legal age of sexual consent without the knowledge of their parents.

These vast changes, described and explained in my books […] utterly transformed private life and the nature of British society, and have been continued and reinforced, never reversed or moderated, by subsequent governments of all parties. One major result has been the transformation of the police force from a locally run, conservative consensual enforcer of the public will into a highly-politicised (and nationalised) exercise in social engineering, with a hilariously slight interest in actual crime or disorder.

They were accompanied by an increasing willingness to permit large-scale immigration, and a decreasing willingness to insist on the integration of the new arrivals. This aided the process of diluting and replacing the former conservative, Christian culture of the country, which came to be seen as ill-mannered towards the new citizens. Thence came multiculturalism, and the insistence on ‘Diversity; and ‘Equality’ eventually enshrined in the Equality Act put through Parliament by Harriet Harman with the qualified but definite assistance of Theresa May.

http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2015/09/why-owen-jones-has-got-it-all-backwards.html

 

[steido01]

Friend, and I mean this with the greatest sincerity and charity a fellow Christian could give, I think you might be doing exactly what you’re hoping to avoid. The church has not changed any of its teachings, even if the culture of those within it grows political. We should be careful not to confuse the politics of people for the teachings of the church. That fact that you’re accusing the church of a made-up political thing like ‘Cultural Marxism,’ might be evidence that you’re conflating the two.

I am not Roman Catholic, but I sincerely hope you take time to talk with a priest before leaving your communion. It has been my observation that those who leave one communion because of politics end up leaving many.

Please, go and talk with a trusted priest.

 

[Xantippe]

You don’t get to heaven by selling your soul to the devil. You’ll win nothing but condemnation for yourselves. And you’ll have earned it. Turn back and repent.

I’d add that a lot of the new right talks a lot about “winning.”

To that I’d respond–winning what?

There’s a lot of focus on short-term tactics at the expense of long-term goals.

 

[J_the_Centrist]

The ideology of the Church is Jesus Christ and Him crucified. There is no political ideology. That is why I was confused by your post.

Why do you assume I am addressing politics here? I have been away awhile and I have forgotten how sophisticated these boards are so I am sorry for the misunderstanding. I wish I could believe that since Vatican II the Church held to this theology (the proper terminology), but cannot, or I am almost certain I cannot, for some of the reasons I addressed already.

I am curious as to the coincidence of you using the term “cultural marxism” as if there was some meaning behind it

This is the term the pundits and polically motivated individuals use and I used to watch them daily. Believe it or not I didn’t even know that Bill O’Reilly was booted from his job until after a few weeks after the fact. I get my news from the internet mostly but there are times I simply ignore it entirely, I also have no access to cable television as I said and by choice. This is also, quite simply, the best way to describe it. Why is it that Saint Francis of Assisi’s burial place is now a place where interfaith celebrations take place, most of which are non-Christian? Why do all the recent pope’s defend Islam in such a way that former pope’s would shutter in terror if they knew of such statements? Why is Buddhism so influential among many modern Catholics while the Carmelites are a far greater form of mysticism that the Church already possesses? You can not deny the existence of these things and more and that they have been unleashed as a result of Vatican II, they never would’ve been possible prior to that. I am not, again, I am not political despite my language and you can call it what you will. It can be called cultural Marxism, liberalization, secularization, end times prophesy (like the Evangelicals), multiculturalism, or whatever you chose but I am taking no glory in it and I am genuinely heart broken by it.

I also hold no grudge against the RRC and I come from an interfaith background so I have nothing again Muslims and Jews, some of whom are in my immediate family and close to heart. However, I have taken great pains to come to the conclusion that the truth is the truth and either is or it isn’t. I await your reply. God Bless you.

 

[pnewton]

Why do you assume I am addressing politics here?

It was the reference to cultural marxism as a direction in which the Church has moved. The Church, has done the opposite and condemned communism, along with unrestricted (key word) Capitalism, based on society today. Interestingly enough, one of the first purely communist lifestyles as the very earlier Church.

 

[J_the_Centrist]

I have talked to Franciscan Friars and priests in a church where “pre-pride” Masses are celebrated and they were physically uncomfortable with my Orthodox opinions. In the confessional they looked like the ones that needed to confess and I am no saint believe me. It’s not just the Pope, I have reached out. Please, how can a person completely unaffiliated with any political party and loathes politics be politically motivated? I try not to harbour any anger or hatred for anyone, failing constantly of course but I try, but what I would never do would make the most important decision in my life based on something so empty as American politics.

 

[Xantippe]

I have talked to Franciscan Friars and priests in a church where “pre-pride” Masses are celebrated and they were physically uncomfortable with my Orthodox opinions.

That sounds like a regional issue.

I wouldn’t have been surprised to run into it when we lived in WA DC, but I would be very surprised in TX. (PNewton is also in TX, I believe.)

 

[Brendan_64]

Seemed’ is the key word. Marxist theories go beyond economics. It’s also applied to philosophy, history, literature and sociology.

Nationalisation of industries relates to state control of the means of production, which is consistent with Marx.

But this has nothing to do with gender ideology etc. So-called ‘cultural marxists’ seem to have little interest in nationalisation of the means of production, or in abolishing private property etc. They do however seem focussed on gender theory etc. They seem to be liberals rather than social marxists. Marx may have been many things, but I don’t think you could call him a liberal.

I think there is a confusion about what is meant by ‘the left’ and I believe it is an error to roll everything on the ‘left’ together under the same label. Marxists and liberals are very different animals, very different indeed.

 

[J_the_Centrist]

You are right and the Acts of the Apostles verifies this. However, that only worked because these people belonged to the same Body and there was no room for divergent opinions which were non-negotiable. Amazingly, even as the Church became more diverse this concept of Christian charity continued, again because they belonged to the same Body. Without this unity in Faith the Byzantine Empire would’ve fallen centuries before it did. No, I am not entirely sure if the Fourth Crusade was responsible for the conquest of Constantinople, too many issues are involve and that claim is debatable as the Byzantine empire was very corrupt by that time, that’s another issues though. Rome would’ve suffered the same fate if it didn’t ,”come under the Cross.” Anyway, Capitalism is a great evil also because it manipulates the mind and places material things and monetary gain at the center of a persons existence and more, but it is better than Communism but that is no excuse either. I am no raving capitalist to be honest, a mixture of government involvement and free market policies are likely best, both within reason. Again, you are right, but that only worked because these people were united in Faith. In any church nowadays, just pick one, the hyped up politics of our day divide the Church. Issues, real and superficial and there are many superficial issues these days, cut the Church in half and we are no longer united in Body largely because of politics. Of course, this is true in Orthodoxy but it is more difficult there because of its uncompromising theology. Believe me I love the RRC and I don’t want to leave in blaze of sour grapes. Trust me, the truth is all that matters.

 

[J_the_Centrist]

Why hasn’t it been addressed?

 

[J_the_Centrist]

You may be right about that though but I am not entirely sure. I know it wouldn’t happen in most RC churches but that it does happen is something to ask because that’s what I see here, at least in this particular church.