Is Darwin's Theory of Evolution True? Part 4.0

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Leave it to the scientists do deal with science.
… unless it has anything to do with the origins and “evolution” of life - in which case: Be afraid. Be very afraid.

(Oh, and if it has anything to do with “climate change”, but that’s another story.)
Their personal views are not eternal
Quite so … except the writers of the Bible weren’t expressing their personal views - they were supernaturally inspired to record the thoughts of God Almighty.
 
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You guys are fighting tooth and nail to the last drop of blood. For what exactly, I pray? Times are-a-changing’ my friend as a damn atheist Bob Dylan sang it a while ago. And he was damn right!
 
There is no concrete evidence that homosapiens evolved from any earlier hominid. The record is discontinuous and shows that homosapiens suddenly appear.
“Look, I’m a person who says in this book [Human Diversity, 1982], that we don’t know anything about the ancestors of the human species. All the fossils that have been dug up and are claimed to be ancestors, we haven’t the faintest idea whether they are ancestors … All you’ve got is Homo sapiens there, you’ve got that fossil there, you’ve got another fossil there … and it’s up to you to draw the lines. Because there are no lines.”

Richard C. Lewontin, Prof. of Zoology, Harvard.
 
Direct spiritual communication does not require language or words. You know the message without hearing any voice, sentence or even being aware that someone was speaking to you. It is an internal assurance that you have received a message in the spiritual way. Only spirits can use this form of communication, like a purely spiritual God talking to your soul. Of course, it is transcending language and not bound to words.
 
The other alternative is that the variation is already in the population and nature favors those variation rather mutation.
Mutations are random, so in any given population there are already random variations present. Tests, such as the Luria-Delbrück experiment show that useful mutations can arise before they become useful.

Yes, variations do exist in a population, such as eye colour in humans. Those variations are the result of earlier mutations being carried forward.

rossum
 
But you can’t say something evolved into something else when it already has this resistance.
Exactly. Nature is blind. Nature mutates stuff all the time relentlessly. A particular mutation may give an organism a trait eg antibiotic resistance regardless of whether the organism was exposed to the antibiotic or not. If by happenstance, that organism perhaps together with its other comrades without that protective trait were to be exposed to that antibiotic, those with the protection survives whereas the others will die off. The survivors would continue to reproduce and then the population would naturally consist of those with that protective trait. Some will jump onto that observed characteristic of the population claiming mutation/evolution at work. Looks like it but not in substance. To claim mutation at work, one has to show that the organism affected by the antibiotic, reacted to it by mutating and remaining alive and continue to reproduce with that altered mutation i.e. to fix the mutation in the population.
 
Biologist Ann Gauger and colleague Douglas Axe conducted a lab experiment in which they found that for a bacterial protein to evolve or mutate from performing one function to another function which is presumably what would need to happen according to the darwinian or neo-darwinian evolutionary paradigm would require at least 7 coordinated mutations.
The number 7 is another instance of the DI lying to you. The change from standard HbA, which is susceptible to malaria, to HbC, which is resistant to malaria in a single base change: HbC; beta6 Glu → Lys. The Milano variant of Apolippoprotein A-I, which reduces furring of arteries is also a single base change ApoA-I M; 173 Arg → Cys.

Enzyme function can be changed by a single mutation.

rossum
 
It’s not as simple as saying “the Big Bang happened.”
The scientific explanation brings together the research into a plausible scenario describing what appears to have happened. In seeking within the description a further cause as to how it all happened, this being all that is given, it will consequently come across as if it happened by itself.

To determine the cause of the physical universe it is necessary to appeal to what is beyond the physics. Strict empiricists would consider the question unanswerable and therefore meaningless, as is that which addresses the validity of the scientific method. Materialists and pantheists would see everything that now exists as being inherent in the initial singularity, sort of there and not there, and playing itself out. What I see are illusions, ways to connect with what is out there that don’t and cannot truly explain what is real. And when nihilism destroys itself, there remains only the Reality of God.
 
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To claim mutation at work, one has to show that the organism affected by the antibiotic, reacted to it by mutating and remaining alive and continue to reproduce with that altered mutation i.e. to fix the mutation in the population.
The mutation works through plasmid transfer from resistant bacteria to those who lack the necessary genomic material, a trait that was created with the first bacteria, to ensure homeostasis within an environment shared with molds, and was not lost by all, through random mutations.
 
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The paucity of the creationist argument is well illustrated by the desperate attempts to show that some of the foremost investigators in the field (Gould, Williams, Lewontin, Haldane, etc.) secretly did not believe in evolution, invariably based on an out-of-context remark referring to an as yet unclarified area of research. They wholly ignore the rest of these people’s life’s work.

Actually, I find no necessary logical contradiction in people who take the bible to be literal, word-for-word, truth from end to end. If they had the courage of their convictions, I think Techno2000, edwest2111 and glark would fall into this group if they were not desperately trying to defend their view to themselves by dabbling in science. Why bother? God does not ‘need’ science. The entire universe, with all its appearance of age and evolution, could have been created spontaneously 6000 years ago, or even last week if God had wanted, and not a shred of logical reasoning could gainsay such a belief.

Unfortunately, even the most die-hard fundamentalist tends to weaken under pressure. Some of the bible, they admit, isn’t literally true. And once the crack appears, then their whole belief starts crumbling. How do they decide what’s literal and what’s not, and what is the relevance of what’s not? Time scales become baffling to them - if not six thousand years, then what? Six million? Six billion? Why? - and the origins of species, scattered over all this time, become an arbitrary list, each of which is supposed to have diversified into thousands of different kinds. Never mind that some of these kinds can’t interbreed, or that most of them are extinct, major features of evolutionary thought, they are all just varieties.

Fortunately for the confused Catholic, the Catholic Church does not think much of independent guesswork, nor of any literal interpretation of the Sacred Scriptures. The Church on earth is collegiate and rational, and all its teaching reflects those criteria. It is, sublimely, as scientific as a religion can be.

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It was not Aloysium who said what I quote below, but I believe it could have been, and that he, I and all good Catholics will be happy to concur:

“When we read the account of Creation in Genesis we risk imagining that God was a magician, complete with an all powerful magic wand. But that was not so. He created beings and he let them develop according to the internal laws with which He endowed each one, that they might develop, and reach their fullness. He gave autonomy to the beings of the universe at the same time in which He assured them of his continual presence, giving life to every reality. And thus Creation has been progressing for centuries and centuries, millennia and millennia, until becoming as we know it today, precisely because God is not a demiurge or a magician, but the Creator who gives life to all beings. The beginning of the world was not a work of chaos that owes its origin to another, but derives directly from a supreme Principle who creates out of love. The Big Bang theory, which is proposed today as the origin of the world, does not contradict the intervention of a divine creator but depends on it. Evolution in nature does not conflict with the notion of Creation, because evolution presupposes the creation of beings who evolve.”

So what interests me is how many of our creationist commenters here are Catholics, rather than some other, separatist, and more extreme version of Christian. In attacking evolution, they attack the collegiate, rational Church. In denying the Big Bang, they deny the collegiate, rational Church. If they are of a sect which exalts individual conscience and denies the authority of Vatican teaching, then I understand their aggression, but if they profess Catholicism, then their tone should be one of inquiry rather than abusive rejection.
 
No, we don’t risk God being a magician. A magician creates illusions.

Adam did not look as God had planned?

No, the flawed human reasoning of scientific observations is attacked and challenged as it should be. Science should be open to such scrutiny form outside the science community.
 
I’m not Catholic.

I care not what the pope says about evolution or any other matter. He is a man and nothing more. He doesn’t speak for God. You quote the pope saying "Evolution in nature does not conflict with the notion of Creation, because evolution presupposes the creation of beings who evolve.”

Evolution directly conflicts with creation. God created everything in 6 days including Adam. He didn’t create a big bang and leave everything to chance. By sin death entered the world. Evolution teaches by death we get advancement. To evolutionists death is the hero.

You say “In attacking evolution, they attack the collegiate, rational Church. In denying the Big Bang, they deny the collegiate, rational Church. If they are of a sect which exalts individual conscience and denies the authority of Vatican teaching,”

I don’t have to attack evolution. I can simply point out the fact it’s not utterly possible. The pope nor any other man has authority over me but God alone. Evolution is a tool used by the devil and it’s the same one he’s used for 6000 years.

Genesis 3: 5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.

Pride of humanity is a snare.
 
The Theistic Evolutionist has to do a lot of squirming to reconcile evolution with Scripture. The thing is, science itself is undermining theistic evolution and supporting design in creation.

All Catholics by definition are creationists.
 
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Good for you. I do respect people who have the courage of their convictions, even if they admit they have no authority but their own. There are, I believe, non-Catholic Christians who nevertheless accept some kind of collegium of their own, but I think the majority rely exclusively on themselves, and the inspiration they receive from God.

As such, I do not deny your right to make statements such as “God created everything in 6 days including Adam”, or indeed, any other belief you sincerely hold. Fortunately, your individual conscience does not inspire you to violence, or persuade you that you ought to buy a gun and shoot people. However, unfortunately, other people also relying on their individual conscience and the inspiration they have received from God have determined that mass murder was, in fact, what God wanted them to do. If I followed your theology, this would put me a bit of a quandary: how would I know that you are right and they are wrong? Must I exonerate such murderers on the grounds that they were sincerely following their consciences? Clearly, individual convictions can be very different. Of course, you believe you are right and they are wrong, but then, so do all the others. Such a plethora of logically incompatible beliefs does not allow me to give credence to any of them, I’m afraid.
 
No, we don’t risk God being a magician. A magician creates illusions.

Adam did not look as God had planned?

No, the flawed human reasoning of scientific observations is attacked and challenged as it should be. Science should be open to such scrutiny form outside the science community.
I’m not sure how these rather random ideas apply to my post; it’s not even clear whether they support it or not. A bit of deliberate obscurantism? Do clarify.
 
They are direct responses to your post.

Did Adam look as God had planned?
 
Huh. I’m still puzzled about the reproduction part, but… it’s a start.

Ed
 
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