Is dialog impossible?

[simplynoone]

My life is highly impacted (negatively) by the introduction of European wasps into Australia. How - I stood on a dying one a few weeks ago, and it hurt for over a week.

Please, grand, sweeping statements. But no examples, proof, sources.

Ouch! to the wasps. Sorry to hear about your bad luck. Hope you are doing well now?

As for the proof, examples, sources… well,

1. Our last President (contribution of the Christians themselves… has HIGHLY impacted not only our lives negatively, but many lives in the world)

The above should more than suffice but I’ll throw in 2 more for the heck of it.

1. Pledge of Allegience (the product of socialist baptist pastor, Francis Bellamy, who wanted nothing more than to see this country turned into socialist state)

Now, you might wonder why the above is seen in a negative light to me… and in fact, I find it HIGHLY negative in how it has impacted our lives. I have had to fight the school board in order to be able to keep my kids from saying the pledge and I went through this stress because
a) I do not want them staring at a piece of material making a meaningless pledge day in and day out… their loyalty should be to their family and their friends; not the flag of a nation because then, they will make the mistake of many in falling for nationalization which allows for manipulation and exploitation of human beings.
b) a pledge should be taken when it can be chosen
c) a pledge should only need to be taken once
d) I am against socialism… taking peoples earned money and distributing it out where the gov’t sees fit is stealing; not charity. Charity should be from the heart for its sake alone.

Thanks to christianity, the above was introduced, inducted into the lives of the most innocent, and valued and endorsed by (granted… well meaning however, either uninformed and/or uneducated, or else imposing) christians.

1. Though I could easily share something more influential, I must bypass to throw this one in because I am really tired of seeing this. Imposed morals by “in the face” approaches… the most disgusting of which are those christian (a LOT of catholics) groups standing on a sidewalk where INNOCENT children are passing by having to see HUGE, “no way ya can miss” pictures of torn apart fetuses. It is fine if they want to expose their most innocent family members to such a heart wrenching and devestating picture… but I am tired of it being imposed on my innocent children when we are out and about.

I love the innocence of children and there really is no need to force not only their children (but their choice certainly) but definitely not mine to the extremes of life when they are just barely beginning to understand the world around them. Discretion is something that escapes these groups. My oldest son is old enough to understand that he is seeing something horrific and yet he is not old enough to understand every angle of the issue; highly unfair to do to children. I have been forced to approach an issue with him that I know he is not mentally developed enough to fully understand in order to ease the fear and pain of what he was forced to see (when a momma is driving and turns a corner, she can’t lean over to cover the eyes… and seriously, those signs are so HUGE that an observant child soaking in the enviroment is not going to miss). Obviously the last one gets me heated more than the first two, which cause me concern, but this one… well, sheesh!

This pushing of morals onto society is making it worse for everyone. I am quite often doing damage control for the moralists because there are many secularist out there who are not truly against God, but because they have been made to feel like filthy sinners, they naturally attribute that to God. why should good, honest people have all their mistakes and wrongs (that are in the past) consistently thrown into their face because they do not choose to condone human sacrifice? Anyway… you asked.

Whew! that felt good to vent! lol Now… having said all of that, my family subscribes to christianity and I love them fiercely! My sister and her husband are kind and they live the example of the teachings of Jesus. They never impose it onto others. They hang out and have a good time with those around them and quietly live the example rather than loudly proclaiming their moralistic views.

My best friend (lifetime soul mate type of friend in fact) is a chrisitan and her husband is not only a christian, but he is actually the founder of two widely known prolife movements here in America… we just do not discuss it. lol

So… it is not that I oppose Christians… just the hypocrisy and untruths that were given by the poster to which I replied.

 

[simplynoone]

You are truly a wonderful person. However, you did blame a religious belief without backing up your claim. When you do get around to it, be sure to classify by whom.

Thank you for the compliment.

Hmm… the violent tendencies is most displayed by the evangelicals. The moralistic views by the orthodox churches, example being the Catholic church, and of course the fundamentalist churches, example being the baptists. And the at home invasions being those such as the mormons, etc.

I’m not American, I’ll pass here.

Yes, I noticed you are Australian.

Capital letters for your muslim friends - they are very special indeed for an agnostic/atheist/child of mother earth.

hahaha… I am not agnostic/athiest/ and am a child of God. I know God exists and I know His Word quite well… which is why, given the choices within arms reach of where I live, I belong to nothing. My views are most in line with the Jewish views since that is, after all the view point given by the Word of God.

Don’t know who or what you are talking about here.

I will be happy to explain. “Pot, meet kettle” is a sarcastic (apologies) way of calling someone a hypocrite… though sarcastic, not quite as rude. Inserted humor to lighten the blow of the Truth.

Interesting timing for such a “non-religious” person to join with your opinions.

Not sure what you are implying and I certainly would encourage to just come right out and clear the air. Assumptions unwarranted can hinder ones ability to be open to what a person is actually saying. I have no problem with clearing up your assumptions of me but can only do so if I know what they are.

 

[chrisse]

Ouch! to the wasps. Sorry to hear about your bad luck. Hope you are doing well now?

As for the proof, examples, sources… well,

1. Our last President (contribution of the Christians themselves… has HIGHLY impacted not only our lives negatively, but many lives in the world)

The above should more than suffice but I’ll throw in 2 more for the heck of it.

1. Pledge of Allegience (the product of socialist baptist pastor, Francis Bellamy, who wanted nothing more than to see this country turned into socialist state)

Now, you might wonder why the above is seen in a negative light to me… and in fact, I find it HIGHLY negative in how it has impacted our lives. I have had to fight the school board in order to be able to keep my kids from saying the pledge and I went through this stress because
a) I do not want them staring at a piece of material making a meaningless pledge day in and day out… their loyalty should be to their family and their friends; not the flag of a nation because then, they will make the mistake of many in falling for nationalization which allows for manipulation and exploitation of human beings.
b) a pledge should be taken when it can be chosen
c) a pledge should only need to be taken once
d) I am against socialism… taking peoples earned money and distributing it out where the gov’t sees fit is stealing; not charity. Charity should be from the heart for its sake alone.

Thanks to christianity, the above was introduced, inducted into the lives of the most innocent, and valued and endorsed by (granted… well meaning however, either uninformed and/or uneducated, or else imposing) christians.

1. Though I could easily share something more influential, I must bypass to throw this one in because I am really tired of seeing this. Imposed morals by “in the face” approaches… the most disgusting of which are those christian (a LOT of catholics) groups standing on a sidewalk where INNOCENT children are passing by having to see HUGE, “no way ya can miss” pictures of torn apart fetuses. It is fine if they want to expose their most innocent family members to such a heart wrenching and devestating picture… but I am tired of it being imposed on my innocent children when we are out and about.

I love the innocence of children and there really is no need to force not only their children (but their choice certainly) but definitely not mine to the extremes of life when they are just barely beginning to understand the world around them. Discretion is something that escapes these groups. My oldest son is old enough to understand that he is seeing something horrific and yet he is not old enough to understand every angle of the issue; highly unfair to do to children. I have been forced to approach an issue with him that I know he is not mentally developed enough to fully understand in order to ease the fear and pain of what he was forced to see (when a momma is driving and turns a corner, she can’t lean over to cover the eyes… and seriously, those signs are so HUGE that an observant child soaking in the enviroment is not going to miss). Obviously the last one gets me heated more than the first two, which cause me concern, but this one… well, sheesh!

This pushing of morals onto society is making it worse for everyone. I am quite often doing damage control for the moralists because there are many secularist out there who are not truly against God, but because they have been made to feel like filthy sinners, they naturally attribute that to God. why should good, honest people have all their mistakes and wrongs (that are in the past) consistently thrown into their face because they do not choose to condone human sacrifice? Anyway… you asked.

Whew! that felt good to vent! lol Now… having said all of that, my family subscribes to christianity and I love them fiercely! My sister and her husband are kind and they live the example of the teachings of Jesus. They never impose it onto others. They hang out and have a good time with those around them and quietly live the example rather than loudly proclaiming their moralistic views.

My best friend (lifetime soul mate type of friend in fact) is a chrisitan and her husband is not only a christian, but he is actually the founder of two widely known prolife movements here in America… we just do not discuss it. lol

So… it is not that I oppose Christians… just the hypocrisy and untruths that were given by the poster to which I replied.

Okay that’s a purely American beef you’ve got going there. Have you thought of emigrating somewhere else?

 

[chrisse]

Thank you for the compliment.

Hmm… the violent tendencies is most displayed by the evangelicals. The moralistic views by the orthodox churches, example being the Catholic church, and of course the fundamentalist churches, example being the baptists. And the at home invasions being those such as the mormons, etc.

Yes, I noticed you are Australian.

hahaha… I am not agnostic/athiest/ and am a child of God. I know God exists and I know His Word quite well… which is why, given the choices within arms reach of where I live, I belong to nothing. My views are most in line with the Jewish views since that is, after all the view point given by the Word of God.

I will be happy to explain. “Pot, meet kettle” is a sarcastic (apologies) way of calling someone a hypocrite… though sarcastic, not quite as rude. Inserted humor to lighten the blow of the Truth.

Not sure what you are implying and I certainly would encourage to just come right out and clear the air. Assumptions unwarranted can hinder ones ability to be open to what a person is actually saying. I have no problem with clearing up your assumptions of me but can only do so if I know what they are.

Understood the pot, meet kettle thing, not what you were on about.

Gotcha - you’ve got issues with Christians. Welcome.

 

[simplynoone]

Understood the pot, meet kettle thing, not what you were on about.

Gotcha - you’ve got issues with Christians. Welcome.

Thank you again for another welcome. wow! You are making me feel very special indeed.

You see what you want to see. Just another proof why blind faith (of any belief system) is so toxic. You have completely failed to take anything I have said into consideration. Seeing that I took time out of my morning to answer your questions and all you can say is that I have issues with christians is really very disheartening and certainly the reason why the answer to the premise of this thread would be a resounding “no” as long as blind faith continues to carry on in this world.

 

[chrisse]

Thank you again for another welcome. wow! You are making me feel very special indeed.

You see what you want to see. Just another proof why blind faith (of any belief system) is so toxic. You have completely failed to take anything I have said into consideration. Seeing that I took time out of my morning to answer your questions and all you can say is that I have issues with christians is really very disheartening and certainly the reason why the answer to the premise of this thread would be a resounding “no” as long as blind faith continues to carry on in this world.

Sorry, no. It’s just not relevant to me here in Australia. Evangelicals/Born Agains are a smallish group of Christians here together with our historical background, let’s just say we do things differently here - we’re more traditional religiously speaking.

I did think you were making sweeping statements, but I’m sure you’re here to discuss and hopefully get a better understanding.

 

[simplynoone]

Okay that’s a purely American beef you’ve got going there. Have you thought of emigrating somewhere else?

Why would I? When someone sees the deterioration of their homeland, the most cowardly thing they can do is run and hide from it. I would rather stay and do what I can to help to educate those around me. Wow! If you saw someone about to walk into a trap, would you just walk away, not having said anything, and thinking to yourself, “whew! glad I got out of their in time?”

Or perhaps you think I should not speak up because my views are not biasedly in favor of your faith? No worries… many with opposing faiths feel the same way as you do about my views. See, I just gave you all reason for common ground!

 

[simplynoone]

I’m sure you’re here to discuss and hopefully get a better understanding.

Precisely!

I am rather curious as to why you had nothing to say about the “sweeping” statements against the Muslims made in this thread… though, in all honesty, the answer to this hardly escapes me.

 

[simplynoone]

Okay that’s a purely American beef you’ve got going there.

I did want to come back and make sure that I clarify my reply to the above statement. I do understand what you say, by the way, about it being a purely American beef. I do, however, disagree since our country has its hand in the business of pretty much all the nations of the world. I am highly disturbed by our presence being felt world wide. This was never the intent of our country when it was founded and being that you are in fact in Australia, I am surprised that you do not feel the same way. Unless you are on the side of those who choose to ignore what is going on around them so long as you can “feel” like you are safe and left alone. It is sad that other people are not afforded the same veil for shielding their eyes from reality. To clarify, I do believe that Christianity has been more toxic than Islam given the fact that it was on that basis, America has turned into the “big brother” of the world… well intentions aside, the results have been very negative. Take a journey to visit countries and share in the discussions with those who do not have the luxury to come on here and give their view about the religions of the world, which country has most negatively impacted their personal life, and which religion (from their perspective) has fueled that country. I do not think they would agree it is only an American beef.

Is it the Muslims idealogy that keeps meaningful dialogue from occurring between Christians and Muslims?, or could it be gasps the Christians dogmatism. My personal view… a good mixture of both (considering that Islam has spawned the fanaticism as well); though from my perspective, it is Christianity that has been more toxic on the world stage than has been Islam. If I am wrong… I certainly am open to hearing about it.

 

[ralphinal]

I did want to come back and make sure that I clarify my reply to the above statement. I do understand what you say, by the way, about it being a purely American beef. I do, however, disagree since our country has its hand in the business of pretty much all the nations of the world. I am highly disturbed by our presence being felt world wide. This was never the intent of our country when it was founded and being that you are in fact in Australia, I am surprised that you do not feel the same way. Unless you are on the side of those who choose to ignore what is going on around them so long as you can “feel” like you are safe and left alone. It is sad that other people are not afforded the same veil for shielding their eyes from reality. To clarify, I do believe that Christianity has been more toxic than Islam given the fact that it was on that basis, America has turned into the “big brother” of the world… well intentions aside, the results have been very negative. Take a journey to visit countries and share in the discussions with those who do not have the luxury to come on here and give their view about the religions of the world, which country has most negatively impacted their personal life, and which religion (from their perspective) has fueled that country. I do not think they would agree it is only an American beef.

Is it the Muslims idealogy that keeps meaningful dialogue from occurring between Christians and Muslims?, or could it be gasps the Christians dogmatism. My personal view… a good mixture of both (considering that Islam has spawned the fanaticism as well); though from my perspective, it is Christianity that has been more toxic on the world stage than has been Islam. If I am wrong… I certainly am open to hearing about it.

Christianity did not turn the US into Big Brother. The inability of Europe to defend itself against German agression TWICE in 30 years, the threat of Communism to the free world, and an amazing understanding that we could impose consumerism on everyone did.

Would you be willing to move with your family to Saudi Arabia? I am not asking if you WANT to. I am asking if living in that sort of theocracy would be acceptable to you

 

[chrisse]

Precisely!

I am rather curious as to why you had nothing to say about the “sweeping” statements against the Muslims made in this thread… though, in all honesty, the answer to this hardly escapes me.

Muslim Woman, nothing to say about sweeping statements against muslims - well probably because I’d ignore sweeping statements about communists, nazi’s, KKK and the like. I equate Islam with those ideologies.

Though generally the statements here are about the geo-political ideology of Islam.

 

[chrisse]

I did want to come back and make sure that I clarify my reply to the above statement. I do understand what you say, by the way, about it being a purely American beef. I do, however, disagree since our country has its hand in the business of pretty much all the nations of the world. I am highly disturbed by our presence being felt world wide. This was never the intent of our country when it was founded and being that you are in fact in Australia, I am surprised that you do not feel the same way. Unless you are on the side of those who choose to ignore what is going on around them so long as you can “feel” like you are safe and left alone. It is sad that other people are not afforded the same veil for shielding their eyes from reality. To clarify, I do believe that Christianity has been more toxic than Islam given the fact that it was on that basis, America has turned into the “big brother” of the world… well intentions aside, the results have been very negative. Take a journey to visit countries and share in the discussions with those who do not have the luxury to come on here and give their view about the religions of the world, which country has most negatively impacted their personal life, and which religion (from their perspective) has fueled that country. I do not think they would agree it is only an American beef.

Is it the Muslims idealogy that keeps meaningful dialogue from occurring between Christians and Muslims?, or could it be gasps the Christians dogmatism. My personal view… a good mixture of both (considering that Islam has spawned the fanaticism as well); though from my perspective, it is Christianity that has been more toxic on the world stage than has been Islam. If I am wrong… I certainly am open to hearing about it.

Wow, you mean it isn’t safe for me to go outside, there might be American Evangelicals waiting for me. I’ll go look now.

Well, personally, I think it’s the muslims ideological belief that the world belongs to allah and everyone who is not muslim must convert, be subjugated with humiliation, or die/ be enslaved. Yeah, I know, not much, but does sort of get in the way of dialogue.

 

[simplynoone]

Christianity did not turn the US into Big Brother. The inability of Europe to defend itself against German agression TWICE in 30 years, the threat of Communism to the free world, and an amazing understanding that we could impose consumerism on everyone did.

Hmm… just a little research will show you that Christianity was indeed used as a catalyst to stir up support for such incidents. Even in the most recent displays of “we know better what is good for the world” attitude we can see it was strongly endorsed and supported by evangelical christianity, and approved by the Orthodox and Fundamentalist Churches. In fact, President Bush clearly marketed God and even claimed he was told by God to commit certain of atrocities in the name of protecting us… meanwhile, I know from searching the Scriptures that the latter goes to prove that his god, the same one christianity claims is not the true God. I know this because God does not lie. Man lies. The reasons we did certain of things were not for the reasons that we were told. And then, when this was starting to become obvious, half truths (which are still lies) and denials were fed to the public and Christian churches of all doctrines (generalized, mind you) across the nation feasted on those lies.

Would you be willing to move with your family to Saudi Arabia? I am not asking if you WANT to. I am asking if living in that sort of theocracy would be acceptable to you

I am already living under something I consider unacceptable… what is the difference?

 

[Publisher]

Interesting. I forgot to check whether you’re Catholic or not. BTW, is there any reciprocation by Muslims when Catholics come to pray together in their house?

We have a saying in the Bible, something that says, if you are ashamed of Jesus in this world, he will be ashamed of you in the next (paraphrase).

I don’t really know since when I’ve been with Muslims in prayer and worship it was “after the manner of Friends”. I don’t know of any Friend who believes our time together with Muslims was denying their beliefs…we met out of mutual respect.

Outside of formal Meeting for Worship I have been in Muslim homes during prayer time…and have sat reverently in Silence and prayed with them.

 

[Soutane]

Hmmm… this is not true in America. My life is highly impacted (negatively) by Christianity (note, I did not say Christians as that is blaming all the people for the fanaticism in the religion); which by the way, this country was NOT founded on. Yet, I am greeted warmly and am made to feel genuinely appreciated by my Muslim Friends; not once can I think of a time when my personal life was negatively impacted by a Muslim. (Note, I am not Christian, Muslim, Jewish… just a creation of God’s). Have not yet read past this point because I was already * *. Pot… meet kettle. Of course, in this case, you would benefit by wiping that chip off your shoulder to see them in a more truthful light… based on the individual.

What?I have a chip on my shoulder because I have eyes to see and ears to hear?I’ve really got to worry about those Catholics and Protestants who blow up planes,attack and kill defenseless tourists,murder 3,000+people and destroy part of New York at a single go,SAW the heads off of defenseless hostages after making them beg and cry for videos,throw acid in the faces of LITTLE GIRLS who want to go to school,instead?

Yeah,you might say I’ve got a bit of a chip on my shoulder but guess who put it there?Muslim fanatics and their apologists.

 

[simplynoone]

What?I have a chip on my shoulder because I have eyes to see and ears to hear?I’ve really got to worry about those Catholics and Protestants who blow up planes,attack and kill defenseless tourists,murder 3,000+people and destroy part of New York at a single go,SAW the heads off of defenseless hostages after making them beg and cry for videos,throw acid in the faces of LITTLE GIRLS who want to go to school,instead?

Yeah,you might say I’ve got a bit of a chip on my shoulder but guess who put it there?Muslim fanatics and their apologists.

Right. Because atrocities are okay to commit when under the guise of a chritian nation’s flag via military.

You say your eyes are open and yet you fail to see the reality of the situation. Why is that we never see the faces of those committing these religious crimes even though some of them have been committed on video? Always covered. Do not even get me started on the 9/11 contradictions. You are very trusting of what you are told to believe…

meanwhile, the atrocities being committed by the christian nation are pretty much exposed quite clearly… of course, there is always some excuse they can come up with for these things that the public will buy into. Hey… I was once where you were at too. I trusted. But I chose to step outside of the box I had allowed myself to be put into to see it from other perspectives… different picture than what you are trying to paint.

Sorry… you only see what you are choosing to see. It is what we do not see that is more revealing of the truth.

 

[Genesis315]

Per the OP, dialogue about what and for what end? I think we can have have peaceful mutual tolerance and also work together for common goals (defense of the natural law, for example) with many Muslims. I also believe we can have a dialogue about religious truth in order to convince them of the truth.

However, as Pope Benedict said, we cannot have it in the strict sense which relativizes the Gospel or where we both agree the other’s respective religions are valid. That is not possible.

 

[Soutane]

Right. Because atrocities are okay to commit when under the guise of a chritian nation’s flag via military.

You say your eyes are open and yet you fail to see the reality of the situation. Why is that we never see the faces of those committing these religious crimes even though some of them have been committed on video? Always covered. Do not even get me started on the 9/11 contradictions. You are very trusting of what you are told to believe…

meanwhile, the atrocities being committed by the christian nation are pretty much exposed quite clearly… of course, there is always some excuse they can come up with for these things that the public will buy into. Hey… I was once where you were at too. I trusted. But I chose to step outside of the box I had allowed myself to be put into to see it from other perspectives… different picture than what you are trying to paint.

Sorry… you only see what you are choosing to see. It is what we do not see that is more revealing of the truth.

Two wrongs don’t make a right,friend-doesn’t the RELIGION OF PEACE teach you that?The Muslims have a long history of hegemony, rapine and forced conversion of their neighbours.I believe that it was Bertrand Russell who said that Islam was the best religion but that Muslims were its worst practioners.

 

[simplynoone]

Two wrongs don’t make a right,friend-doesn’t the RELIGION OF PEACE teach you that?The Muslims have a long history of hegemony, rapine and forced conversion of their neighbours.I believe that it was Bertrand Russell who said that Islam was the best religion but that Muslims were its worst practioners.

Are you referring to Islam when you say the “RELIGION OF PEACE?” If so, I know little about Islam, though I do talk regularly to a couple of mannerly ladies who walk by my house with their well behaved children in tow and have had nice discussions about religion with Muslims, though contrary to what you are saying on here, they have never endorsed their religion over Judaism or Christianity… they feel that it is time to take down the barriers and worship the one True God in spirit and in truth… as do I.

It is not the Jewish and the Muslims who seem to be sending out the recruits for their religions (as you have claimed about the latter), but rather the Christians… punishable by hell for non compliance. I am doing nothing more here than stating the Truth as I can not help to do when I see biased and false statements as I have seen in your posts. I do not choose to be Muslim, though I am open to hearing about their religion. I feel comfortable with what it is I already subscribe to… that being the Word of God, given to us by the Jewish.

 

[simplynoone]

Muslim Woman, nothing to say about sweeping statements against muslims - well probably because I’d ignore sweeping statements about communists, nazi’s, KKK and the like. I equate Islam with those ideologies.

Though generally the statements here are about the geo-political ideology of Islam.

Ha! Funny… I ignored this post because I thought you were assuming that I was a Muslim when I clearly stated that I was not. It was not until I came across a post by someone actually using the SN “MuslimWoman” that I understood you were making assumptions again. It is much more polite to ask if a person is “so and so” before accusing them of being deceitful… at the very least, it saves you from looking foolish.

By the way, why is communism any worse than democracy (about the only democracy that is worth its weight in gold is constitutional republic… a very well thought out branch of democracy that requires close care to maintain and which we will not be seeing again in a very long time)? Do you even know anything about the pros and cons of the governmental systems?
You should also know that Russia’s subscribed religion is Orthodox Christianity and that they are living under a communist government (which they were glad to have considering how America, the defenders against communism, tore down all stability in their nation).

You added in Natzi’s I see. I would agree and funny isn’t it, that Hitler used Christianity to gain support in his quest to annahilate the Jewish people. You can look to the writings of Paul to clearly see why he would choose to use Christianity as a catalyst. And yes, I know he was not Christian… nevertheless, our country learned well his tactics, no?

KKK members are most often Christians as well.

Just some FYI’s to say that you are only going against the religion that you subscribe to in all these cases. Education… there is a reason I endorse it.