Is dialog impossible?

[chrisse]

Ha! Funny… I ignored this post because I thought you were assuming that I was a Muslim when I clearly stated that I was not. It was not until I came across a post by someone actually using the SN “MuslimWoman” that I understood you were making assumptions again. It is much more polite to ask if a person is “so and so” before accusing them of being deceitful… at the very least, it saves you from looking foolish.

By the way, why is communism any worse than democracy (about the only democracy that is worth its weight in gold is constitutional republic… a very well thought out branch of democracy that requires close care to maintain and which we will not be seeing again in a very long time)? Do you even know anything about the pros and cons of the governmental systems?
You should also know that Russia’s subscribed religion is Orthodox Christianity and that they are living under a communist government (which they were glad to have considering how America, the defenders against communism, tore down all stability in their nation).

You added in Natzi’s I see. I would agree and funny isn’t it, that Hitler used Christianity to gain support in his quest to annahilate the Jewish people. You can look to the writings of Paul to clearly see why he would choose to use Christianity as a catalyst. And yes, I know he was not Christian… nevertheless, our country learned well his tactics, no?

KKK members are most often Christians as well.

Just some FYI’s to say that you are only going against the religion that you subscribe to in all these cases. Education… there is a reason I endorse it.

Oh, yes, you’re Muslim Woman. The ignorance your displaying is pure Muslim Woman. Besides, you gave yourself away much earlier. Too clever for yourelf.

 

[chrisse]

Are you referring to Islam when you say the “RELIGION OF PEACE?” If so, I know little about Islam, though I do talk regularly to a couple of mannerly ladies who walk by my house with their well behaved children in tow and have had nice discussions about religion with Muslims, though contrary to what you are saying on here, they have never endorsed their religion over Judaism or Christianity… they feel that it is time to take down the barriers and worship the one True God in spirit and in truth… as do I.

It is not the Jewish and the Muslims who seem to be sending out the recruits for their religions (as you have claimed about the latter), but rather the Christians… punishable by hell for non compliance. I am doing nothing more here than stating the Truth as I can not help to do when I see biased and false statements as I have seen in your posts. I do not choose to be Muslim, though I am open to hearing about their religion. I feel comfortable with what it is I already subscribe to… that being the Word of God, given to us by the Jewish.

Oh, Muslim Woman, you’re hilarious.

 

[simplynoone]

Oh, Muslim Woman, you’re hilarious.

If your hatred were not so overwhelming, you would certainly feel the weight of your foolishness. From my perspective you are quite delusional.

By the way, you say I am ignorant. Fine, that I will accept as long as you can prove it. Instead of making silly and foolish assumptions about others, back up your claims. In fact, you should definitively back up your claim as well that I am Muslim since you not allowing me the right to be acknowledged for what it is I believe and Love. That kind of disrespect seriously is getting under my skin, which seems to be your goal… I have no problem admitting that and you should be ashamed at your behavior. You are only proving the answer is no to the OP’s question and whose fault it really is.

 

[inJESUS]

The dialog is not impossible but rather very difficult with those who cannot see things except through Muhammad’s lenses that is why there is absolutely no Muslim who understands Christianity by relying on Muhammad and that is why we have to tell every single Muslim that God does not have a wife, that the Trinity isn’t about 3 gods, that Mary is not part of the Trinity ecc.

 

[chrisse]

If your hatred were not so overwhelming, you would certainly feel the weight of your foolishness. From my perspective you are quite delusional.

By the way, you say I am ignorant. Fine, that I will accept as long as you can prove it. Instead of making silly and foolish assumptions about others, back up your claims. In fact, you should definitively back up your claim as well that I am Muslim since you not allowing me the right to be acknowledged for what it is I believe and Love. That kind of disrespect seriously is getting under my skin, which seems to be your goal… I have no problem admitting that and you should be ashamed at your behavior. You are only proving the answer is no to the OP’s question and whose fault it really is.

Oh please, “prove”. It is you since coming on this board last night that has failed to “prove” anything.

NOTHING but flyaway statements. So I return in kind, Muslim Woman.

 

[Cluny]

Melkites, Copts, Antiochian Orthodox, Maronites, Syriac Orthodox and Catholics, Assyrians and Chaldean Catholics–all these live in the Middle East and share Moslem “culture” (or maybe the other way around).

Yet, where Moslems are the majority, all these Christians are subjected to greater or lesser degrees of discrimination.

Three people in my parish had an uncle killed by Muslims PRECISELY because he would not convert.

And let’s not talk about the destruction of Christian Churches in such countries. That would be politically incorrect.

Just this last week in Egypt a Christian convert was sentenced to death for becoming a Christian.

compassdirect.org/en/display.php?page=news&lang=en&length=short&idelement=5826&backpage=summaries

So what do you think? Is such dialogue possible?

 

[jakasaki]

Melkites, Copts, Antiochian Orthodox, Maronites, Syriac Orthodox and Catholics, Assyrians and Chaldean Catholics–all these live in the Middle East and share Moslem “culture” (or maybe the other way around).

Yet, where Moslems are the majority, all these Christians are subjected to greater or lesser degrees of discrimination.

Three people in my parish had an uncle killed by Muslims PRECISELY because he would not convert.

And let’s not talk about the destruction of Christian Churches in such countries. That would be politically incorrect.

Just this last week in Egypt a Christian convert was sentenced to death for becoming a Christian.

compassdirect.org/en/display.php?page=news&lang=en&length=short&idelement=5826&backpage=summaries
So what do you think? Is such dialogue possible?

Yes, I posted this article for participation in discussion already but so far, very little response.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4875571#post4875571

 

[ForOurFuture]

. I feel comfortable with what it is I already subscribe to… that being the Word of God, given to us by the Jewish.

The “Word of God, given to us by the Jewish” boils down to the idea that the Jews are the one and only chosen people of God. Looks like you’ve got a bit in common with the nazi’s and the KKK, that being racial (or even more exclusively, tribal) supremacism!

 

[simplynoone]

The “Word of God, given to us by the Jewish” boils down to the idea that the Jews are the one and only chosen people of God. Looks like you’ve got a bit in common with the nazi’s and the KKK, that being racial (or even more exclusively, tribal) supremacism!

Certainly I could see you calling me bias; but not racist. Besides, I am not Jewish so it is kind of silly to say I am willing to exclude myself, don’t you think? I am just telling the Truth. The Word of God came to us through the Jewish people. It is nothing to be snippy over… try grateful.

Being Jewish was/is a responsibility of significant importance, so I have no problem that they find favor with God and I would not see why anyone else would.

Oh, by the way, I do believe they were the chosen ones of God. Not the Christians and not the Muslims. Though God loves mankind, the Jewish rightfully have a bigger part of His heart… this is not something most are willing to try and understand.

 

[ralphinal]

Hmm… just a little research will show you that Christianity was indeed used as a catalyst to stir up support for such incidents. Even in the most recent displays of “we know better what is good for the world” attitude we can see it was strongly endorsed and supported by evangelical christianity, and approved by the Orthodox and Fundamentalist Churches. In fact, President Bush clearly marketed God and even claimed he was told by God to commit certain of atrocities in the name of protecting us… meanwhile, I know from searching the Scriptures that the latter goes to prove that his god, the same one christianity claims is not the true God. I know this because God does not lie. Man lies. The reasons we did certain of things were not for the reasons that we were told. And then, when this was starting to become obvious, half truths (which are still lies) and denials were fed to the public and Christian churches of all doctrines (generalized, mind you) across the nation feasted on those lies.

You are so far off historically, it makes me sick. Christianity had nothing to do with our entering WWI. It was a political move hastened by the sinking of the Lucetania. Europe was made up of Christian nations at that time. Christianity had nothing to do with us entering WWII, either. that was because of Pearl harbor and the decision by Hitler to honor his treaty with Japan and delare war on us. Technically, Germany and Italy were both Christian nations, too. After the second war, we were the ONLY industrial power left. We took it as a job to save the world from itself.

I am already living under something I consider unacceptable… what is the difference?

Because the United States will not beat you for praying in any method you choose. You will not be killed for being of a different faith, or no faith at all.

I really cannot understand you. If life is so bad here, what are you doing to change it? You talk about the anti-abortion people offending your children. Well, don;t go near the clinic or help to stop abortion OR do something to get rid of them. You are offended by the history of America. Tough. I cannot help that. Revising it will not change a thing.

And if you are looking to politicians to define Christianity, you are a fool of the highest order.

 

[ralphinal]

Melkites, Copts, Antiochian Orthodox, Maronites, Syriac Orthodox and Catholics, Assyrians and Chaldean Catholics–all these live in the Middle East and share Moslem “culture” (or maybe the other way around).

Yet, where Moslems are the majority, all these Christians are subjected to greater or lesser degrees of discrimination.

Three people in my parish had an uncle killed by Muslims PRECISELY because he would not convert.

And let’s not talk about the destruction of Christian Churches in such countries. That would be politically incorrect.

Just this last week in Egypt a Christian convert was sentenced to death for becoming a Christian.

compassdirect.org/en/display.php?page=news&lang=en&length=short&idelement=5826&backpage=summaries

So what do you think? Is such dialogue possible?

Thank you for this. If Islam is about peace, why is there a problem?

 

[ForOurFuture]

. Besides, I am not Jewish so it is kind of silly to say I am willing to exclude myself, don’t you think? .

I’ve been reading your posts, silly is exactly what I’ve been thinking.

 

[ForOurFuture]

Oh, by the way, I do believe they were the chosen ones of God. Not the Christians and not the Muslims. Though God loves mankind, the Jewish rightfully have a bigger part of His heart… this is not something most are willing to try and understand.

Christ makes it very clear, God had not abandoned the Jews, the Jews had abandoned the covenant. Christ came to make a new covenant for all mankind. Now that’s my kind of guy, plays it straight, no favoritism, you’re with him, he’s with you. Jews, collectively, reviled Christ and still do. They’re not universalists they’re tribal supremacists.

 

[Verisimilitude]

Yes, it’s impossible to have meaningful discussions beyond simple pleasntries and a few general questions with no follow-ups without it turning into a fight.

 

[simplynoone]

Christ makes it very clear, God had not abandoned the Jews, the Jews had abandoned the covenant. Christ came to make a new covenant for all mankind. Now that’s my kind of guy, plays it straight, no favoritism, you’re with him, he’s with you. Jews, collectively, reviled Christ and still do. They’re not universalists they’re tribal supremacists.

Hmm… Can you show me where that covenant is please? I am interested in what you are saying. The only covenant for mankind that I have seen laid out by God is the one He informed Noah of after the great flood.



(warning though… this is off topic and we are risking the OP’s patience should they return to see where this is headed… I never mind, but others might… still, I am interested)

 

[simplynoone]

You are so far off historically, it makes me sick. Christianity had nothing to do with our entering WWI. It was a political move hastened by the sinking of the Lucetania. Europe was made up of Christian nations at that time. Christianity had nothing to do with us entering WWII, either. that was because of Pearl harbor and the decision by Hitler to honor his treaty with Japan and delare war on us. Technically, Germany and Italy were both Christian nations, too. After the second war, we were the ONLY industrial power left. We took it as a job to save the world from itself.

Actually, only a bit of research and logic will tell you that Christianity did play a significant role in these events. Foreign trade was intended to be the only branch of foreign policy as you can see when you research the beginnings of our country. The main intent was for this country to be a safe haven for those seeking refuge from controlling governments. The only wars to be fought were to be defensive, on our soil, and certainly no alliances to be forged with other nations.

Then came the moralistics with who introduced nationalization into the school systems and general life. Christianity taught their children that they should fight for the honor of the flag, save the nation and the world. After all, that is good morals and the christian way, right? Not so much when we find ourselves fighting battles of greed in the name of Christianity… and we are; or had you not noticed? Hey… I see it elsewhere; not just with Christianity and America. Just whilst everyone is focused on all those strange evil people’s atrocities, let us not forget that we are just as guilty, if not more so. The mote again.

 

[ForOurFuture]

Hmm… Can you show me where that covenant is please? I am interested in what you are saying. The only covenant for mankind that I have seen laid out by God is the one He informed Noah of after the great flood.

That would be Hebrews 12:24, that’s the NEW testament.

12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things that that of Abel.

 

[simplynoone]

Because the United States will not beat you for praying in any method you choose. You will not be killed for being of a different faith, or no faith at all.

Really? I will suggest to you as well that a visit to other nations that have been and are being visited by our military might be beneficial then. Ask them personally if they agree with you on that. Don’t rely on a form of entertainment that gets paid quite handsomely (fox, cnn, msnbc, etc) to tell you what others think you should hear, because you obviously are or you would not have said the above statement. Just because you will be hard pressed to find it in this country (hard pressed… not completely hidden though), it is not so difficult to find it going on in other countries… courtesy of the red, white, and blue in the name of God and our country!

I really cannot understand you.

Either rest assured and realize you are not alone in that or maybe you could try.

If life is so bad here, what are you doing to change it?

Being honest; which I was only able to do when I took the advice of Jesus and removed the mote, blind faith, out of my eye to see that the problem is not so much external, but rather internal. If more Christians could remove that mote and be honest, perhaps God would see fit to use them to better the world in more effectives ways. That would be my hope anyway. And I do not think it is far fetched. I think most people as individuals have good hearts and want what is right. But, I know that the mote is big and hurts incredibly whilst pulling it… I know from experience.

You talk about the anti-abortion people offending your children. Well, don;t go near the clinic or help to stop abortion OR do something to get rid of them. You are offended by the history of America. Tough. I cannot help that. Revising it will not change a thing.

I do… go another route when I must pass that way; speaking of the abortion clinic that is. It is highly inconvenient though since it is only one of two ways to get from my home to a particular destination. The other one adds a good 25 minutes onto our journey and being a single mother, the gas wasted hurts… but I do it. No worries, I do not speak vainly.

I am not offended by American history. I do not know where you saw me say that. I am just being honest about the facts of American history. I am sure you have heard “Be the change that you want to see”… Gandhi. Well, again, from experience i know how VERY difficult it is to face the truth about one’s own belief system and the wrongs that have stemmed from it, but I did it because I wanted to live in reality. Figure it this way, if you are not wrong, then what harm does it take to actually consider another perspective? At least you will be arguing a fairly after you took the time to consider.

And if you are looking to politicians to define Christianity, you are a fool of the highest order.

Uh… I did not say that. If you are talking about my references to former President Bush, he was just using it because it is all the people who put him in office cared to see and hear from him… they did not care what he did so long as he spoke what they wanted to hear. It is the Truth. Though, I do not blame him and I do think he served his purpose in office. Many of us were blind to the same things and it served to shake our worlds because the contradictions suddenly became that apparent. The leaders serve their purposes quite well… they are reflections of where the people of the nations are at.

 

[simplynoone]

That would be Hebrews 12:24, that’s the NEW testament.

12:24 And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things that that of Abel.

I kind of figured that you would be using Paul… it was either that or a twisting of the prophet Isaiah’s words. Had to be one of the two. Had you brought up the one I am about to bring up, it surely would have showed your observation skills to be off; though…

The last covenant that GOD gave definitively that I have been able to find is in Jeremiah 31: 33-40 (which still consists of the same Laws, as you will note) and you can note that covenant was made with the house of Israel and not mankind. Since Jesus promoted the Law and the prophets, yet not Paul, in his teachings… well, it is quite obvious which one of us is wrong… unless you are going to admit to living by the teachings of Paul and not the teachings of Jesus. It has to be one of the two… either I am right or you are declaring that you do deny the teachings of Jesus in favor of Paul.

Else you want to give it another go and see if you can find it not being endorsed only by Paul, but also by Jesus, the prophets, and/or the Law (of course, if you use the words of Jesus, you must back it up with the Law and the Prophets since he said that his teachings could be found there as well)… I am willing to consider it. I look forward to seeing what you must have according to the conditions that Jesus laid out that confirms that Paul is right.

 

[Reuben_J]

I kind of figured that you would be using Paul…

Hebrew 12:24
And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things that that of Abel.