Is Fatima Center (fatima.org) in communion with Rome?

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It is interesting how the article is stated. Certainly there is no guarantee that every letter the Pope writes is public; and I do not presume in any way to suggest that a comment by Bishop Fellay is inaccurate.

However one would think that Rome would be particularly careful to state what has or has not been done between the SSPX and Rome in any particulars regarding permissions.

And again, we hear in the news release (of three years ago - May 2017) “and informed sources have indicated that an agreement is close to establish the SSPX as a personal prelature.”

According to further discussions after that, it was acknowledged that such a discussion was DOA - Dead On Arrival - consistent with the the last 40+ years or so of discussions between the SSPX and Rome.

I don’t follow the matter closely as it, s well as I, are both growing older.

So: I don’t accuse the bishop of creating something out of whole cloth; but what Rome said is in the letter - which may or may not be in the public sphere at this point; and the letter, not any interpretation of it or spin on it, is the deciding factor.

In the article itself, the comment is made: “Bishop Fellay reported. He said that the move indicated that although the status of the SSPX remains irregular…”

And while the bishop focuses on permission which Pope Francis has given, it would appear that the issue remains, as noted by Pope Benedict, that the heart of the irregularity between the SSPX and Rome is, in the Pope’s words “doctrinal”, and that is what has to be resolved.
 
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AltarSoldier said:
Writing him off because he says “extreme” and “bizarre things” made me laugh, his views are far from extreme, if anything in these times they are more practical if anything.
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I agree. Honestly he is the guy who is always calling to pray Rosary, to pray for and obey hierarchy as well as remain in communion with Pope Francis… but fact he knows his way around theology and does not sugarcoat things does upset people.
 
AltarSoldier said:
There is an unhealthy trend or mentality (at least here) to write off rather credibility and knowledgeable Catholic authors, theologians, PHDs etc because their views hurt our feelings or make us uncomfortable.
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No, there’s an unhealthy trend for people on this forum to assume somebody else is “offended” or “uncomfortable” or “has hurt feelings” when I personally just don’t like Taylor Marshall’s brand of spinach and find him useless for my own spiritual life. If you like him or find him helpful, fine.

Differences of opinion are okay. They don’t indicate that the person who disagrees with you is having to face some uncomfortable truth. If you want to think that okay, but it just makes me chuckle.
 
The Fatima Center USA (fatima.org) IS in communion with Rome. Fr. Isaac and the other priests pray for Pope Francis at every Mass, Rosary and Benediction. (And yes, I’ve met him in person.)

However, there is a breakaway group called the Servants of Jesus and Mary. They describe themselves as “The Fatima Center Since 1994” which is FALSE. They are the ones not in communion with the Holy See. Fr. Paul Kramer is in charge. A lot of the people in this organization worked at the Fatima Center USA but started their own organization ~ 2 years after Fr. Gruner died.

I also met the late Fr. Nicholas Gruner in person on at least 3 occasions. He was not only a priest but a scholar and a gentleman. The first TLM I ever attended was offered by him.

+Fr. Gruner was extremely devoted to Our Lady. St. Louis de Montfort in his book True Devotion to Mary quotes St. John Damascene that the infallible sign of a heretic, schismatic or reprobate (those are St. John’s words, not mine!) is that he has no devotion to Our Lady. Well, that definitely excludes +Fr. Gruner.

The day he died - April 29, 2015 - was the same day that one of my coworkers fell ill. God spared my coworker and took Fr. Gruner. I kept asking myself: Why, Lord, did You take him and spare my coworker? I didn’t understand it at the time.

Now, 5+ years later, it became more clear. God spared my coworker because he was still needed here and took Fr. Gruner because his work on earth was done.

Also, according to the modern Latin calendar, he died on the Feast of St. Catherine of Siena. Although she was a laywoman (Third Order Dominican - Mantellate), she was not afraid to tell the popes of her day to go back to Rome and do their duty.

Fr. Gruner was similar in that he begged PJPII, BXVI and PF to do what Our Lady of Fatima asked, namely to consecrate Russia by name in union with all the bishops of the world. AFAIK, the only Pope who ever consecrated Russia by name was Pius XII but he did it without all the bishops. PJPII consecrated the world, not Russia in 1981, 1982, 1984, 1990 and 2000. PF entrusted the world to Our Lady in 2013.

Fr. Gruner also defended the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church when many others were silent about the plight of our persecuted brethren behind the Iron Curtain.

This poor priest is gone 5+ years and he still can’t rest in peace. May his memory be eternal.
 
He actually appealed that “suspension” to PJPII. IIRC, Chris Ferrara (who is a civil lawyer) helped him with the appeal.

AFAIK, the “suspension” was never carried out because PJPII never ratified it.
 
I understand you like him, but comparing a disobedient suspended priest to a Doctor of the Church is a bit much in my opinion. He may have thought he was doing the right thing. He still acted wrongly. I pray for his soul.
 
St. Vincent Ferrer was mistaken as to who was the true pope in his day. There were 3 claimants to the papacy - St. Catherine supported the true pope and St. Vincent was mistaken but they’re both saints.

+Fr. Gruner was not perfect (he would have been the first to admit that) but he was devoted to Our Lady. The day of his funeral - the third day after his death - was May 2nd, the Feast of St. Athanasius and the First Saturday of the month of May which is dedicated to Our Lady.

Please God his purgatory will be short and he will soon go to heaven. (A fellow priest anointed him and gave him absolution before he died.)
 
I personally would hope Fr Gruner is already in Heaven as I do not wish to see anyone in Purgatory (including many people who IMHO have done much worse things on earth than Father) and I spend a lot of time trying to help souls get out of there quickly or better yet skip it entirely.

I doubt he will ever be officially canonized though.
 
I don’t think he’d be officially canonized either but that’s why both East and West have the Feast of All Saints (1st Sunday after Pentecost for us and Nov. 1 on the TL & NO calendars) - to remember all the saints, whether or not they were canonized.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
If I remember right, he was suspended for disobedience to authority in refusing to return to the diocese where he was incardinated, when he was summoned.
Obedience is a pretty basic concept.
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+Fr. Gruner was ordained and incardinated in the Diocese of Avellino, Italy Aug. 22, 1976. His bishop gave him permission to work in Canada and the U.S. because Fr. Gruner did not know Italian and thus could not minister to the faithful there.

With the permission of his bishop and in the beginning the Canadian Conference of Catholic Bishops, he started the Fatima Center in 1978. He continued this work for 20+ years.

During this time and even up to his death, the Diocese of Avellino did not financially support him in any way.

When he received the summons to go back to Avellino, he wrote to the bishop (this is in the late 90s now) stating that it was morally impossible for him to abandon the Fatima Center and return to Italy, where he did not know the language nor had he been provided for in any way.

Eventually he was incardinated in the Diocese of Hyderabad, India and excardinated from the Diocese of Avellino, Italy. He remained incardinated in the Diocese of Hyderabad, India (where the Fatima Center has an orphanage) until his death.
 
I had no idea that he left. I’ll have to check their website again. Thank you.
 
As I stated below (post #76), +Fr. Gruner was incardinated in the Diocese of Hyderabad, India. He was not a vagus (wandering priest).
 
As I stated below (post #76), +Fr. Gruner was incardinated in the Diocese of Hyderabad, India. He was not a vagus (wandering priest).
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Thanks for all the info on Fr. Gruner. I didn’t know that much about him. Thanks for sharing that!. My last post was flagged for being “offensive and hurtful” by someone so I’m sorry if you couldn’t reply to it :roll_eyes:
 
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In 1994 the new bishop of Avellino issued a decree declaring Gruner a vagus priest.

Fr. Gruner contested the matters with his superior in Avellino and the matter made its way to the Apostolic Signatura, which affirmed tht he was suspended a divinis.

The short of it, no matter what your opinion is on the matter, is that he was suspended by the highest court in the Church, and that is what ends the matter of another bishop trying to incardinate him.

There are any number of arm chair Canon lawyers and other opinionated people on the matter; he was suspended properly by the Church which was affirmed by the highest Court, and that results in Quod Erat Demonstrandum. QED - aka that is the final answer.

But don’t take my answer; the following is from a Real certified Canon lawyer for anyone who is interested:

Library : Canon Law and Fr. Gruner's Suspension (a divinis)

Canon Law and Fr. Gruner's Suspension (<i>a divinis</>) Pete Vere, JCL answers canon law questions about the suspension of Fr. Nicholas Gruner's priestly faculties.
www.catholicculture.org www.catholicculture.org
 
Margaret_Ann said:
The Fatima Center USA (fatima.org ) IS in communion with Rome. Fr. Isaac and the other priests pray for Pope Francis at every Mass, Rosary and Benediction.
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To be in Communion with the Church, the Fatima Center ministry would need to be in Communion with the bishop of their local Diocese of St Catharines. Otherwise it’s not a Catholic ministry.

Praying for the pope or for the local ordinary does not mean you are in communion with the Church.
 
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Yes, I posted that above too.

Unfortunately, people tend to base their opinions about these sorts of actions on their emotions and whether they like the priest or think he is holy or prefer him to the Pope, etc.

As you said, there are no end of armchair canon lawyers and “armchair Popes” who see suspensions and other disciplinary actions towards priests as being unfair if they liked the priest in question or agreed with what he was saying. It does not matter whether the priest is Fr Gruner or Fr. Mark White who has just gone through a similar situation with his bishop and an unsuccessful appeal to the Vatican. A suspended priest is a suspended priest.
 
AltarSoldier said:
There is an unhealthy trend or mentality (at least here) to write off rather credibility and knowledgeable Catholic authors, theologians, PHDs etc because their views hurt our feelings or make us uncomfortable.
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Agreed!

It’s rather odd that there are some people on here who hold James Martin in such high esteem. They find great wisdom and faithfulness in his words and will bend over backwards to defend his ministry.

Yet, these same individuals will apply just as much effort to criticize and invalidate Dr. Taylor Marshall. Labeling him as bizarre, an extremist, fanatical, disobedient, divisive and numerous other derogatory words.

Usually people are too quick to denounce an individual simply because they don’t like them.
 
AltarSoldier said:
There is an unhealthy trend or mentality (at least here) to write off rather credibility and knowledgeable Catholic authors, theologians, PHDs etc because their views hurt our feelings or make us uncomfortable.
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I don’t judge people who like Fatima Center, National Catholic Reporter, or Mission to Catholics. If Chick Publications Catholic tracts appeal to you, that is your business.

But if someone claims Catholics for Choice, or the Fatima Center, or Focus on the Family, are in Communion with the Church, that’s not a subjective matter. It’s factual. They are not. The 700 Club may have PhDs. So what.

Its not a question of them hurting my feelings or being too bold or courageous for me. There are objective criteria. They do or do not meet those criteria.

Look at the title of the thread.
 
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Yeah, the Fatima Center to me is just a nest of conspiracy theorists.

If I want to know about Fatima, I’ll look to the Popes and to Sister Lucia herself.
I don’t need a “Center” pushing stuff at me.

If I want a worshipful Mary shrine associated with Fatima, there is the Blue Army Shrine not too far away in East Ashbury NJ, and the Basilica of the National Shrine of Our Lady of Fatima in Lewiston, NY and of course Fatima itself in Portugal. All of which I’ve been to. Don’t need a “Fatima Center”, nope.

And if I want a traditionalist parish, there’s one right here in the diocese, and others I’ve attended in other dioceses. Don’t need a “Fatima Center” for that either.

I’m muting this thread now as I think the point has been made and it’s devolving into a bunch of ad homs from people who simply don’t like the facts.
 
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