Is God a kind, loving God or a mean, vengeful God?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Floyd_Lawson
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I personally have no dog in that fight on either side. I’m simply looking at things from a decidedly Judeo-Christian perspective. And I agree with you that God loves everyone and desires that none should be lost. I’m also familiar with the Catholic Church’s position on the question of whether Muslims worship the same God as Catholics. Finally, I’m very conscious of the fact that God will save whom He will regardless of what I think about the situation.

Now, to get to the answers for the questions you ask, we have to go back a few steps, so to speak, and three questions need to be answered first.

Was Judaism founded by God or man?
Was Christianity founded by God or man?
Was Islam founded by God or man?
Jews, Christians and Muslims are all “people of the Book”, that is, we all believe in God the Father. In some ways we are like the Trinity - Jews = Father, Christians = Son and Muslims = Holy Spirit. Unless we can quit fighting each other there will be no Kingdom of Heaven on Earth.
 
Jews, Christians and Muslims are all “people of the Book”, that is, we all believe in God the Father. In some ways we are like the Trinity - Jews = Father, Christians = Son and Muslims = Holy Spirit.
Not even close.
Unless we can quit fighting each other there will be no Kingdom of Heaven on Earth.
Never will be.

John 18:36
36 Jesus said, “My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place.”
 
If God is real, he is neither.

If God is real, he is an indifferent Deity.
Did you join Catholic Answers for answers or to cause dissention? Every one of your posts is a thorn in our side!
 
Jews, Christians and Muslims are all “people of the Book”, that is, we all believe in God the Father. In some ways we are like the Trinity - Jews = Father, Christians = Son and Muslims = Holy Spirit. Unless we can quit fighting each other there will be no Kingdom of Heaven on Earth.
Actually, we Catholics are NOT “people of the book.” Our Catechsim specifically states that.
Still, the Christian faith is not a “religion of the book.” Christianity is the religion of the “Word” of God, a word which is “not a written and mute word, but the Word which is incarnate and living”. If the Scriptures are not to remain a dead letter, Christ, the eternal Word of the living God, must, through the Holy Spirit, "open [our] minds to understand the Scriptures."CCC 108

We are a people of the Word. The Word of God made flesh.
 
Good Evening, Randy.

Taking in the World Series as I type.😉

If you don’t mind, I am going to bring back the line that started this diversion in the thread:
"Randy Carson:
The Middle East conflict exists for one reason and one reason only: Satan hates God’s chosen People and uses the Muslims to kill them.
My question was this: Do you hold anything against the Palestinians? If so, do you forgive them?
I personally have no dog in that fight on either side.
One does not have to have a “dog in the fight” to be cheering one side or the other. Are you saying that your statement does not show favor to the Israelis? If not, please explain why only the hatred on one side is of “satan’s use”. It’s okay and natural to play favorites, it is not a problem. I described the possible problems in my last post.
I’m simply looking at things from a decidedly Judeo-Christian perspective.
Did you give the “Muslims” the benefit of the doubt? That is a Christian perspective. Did you forgive the “Muslims”? That would be a Christian perspective. Did you seek to understand people, to find their good intent? That would be a Christian perspective. I am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, here, but I do not see an explanation of your statement. You said that satan is using the Muslims. Is this something you actually know, did God tell you this? Did satan? I am giving you the benefit of the doubt in believing that you do not intend to bear false witness, that you mean no harm in the statement even though it can be seen as very provocative and capable of triggering a lot of anger in some people. Do you forgive the “Muslims” if you hold anything against them? That would be the Christian perspective.
And I agree with you that God loves everyone and desires that none should be lost. I’m also familiar with the Catholic Church’s position on the question of whether Muslims worship the same God as Catholics. Finally, I’m very conscious of the fact that God will save whom He will regardless of what I think about the situation.
This, indeed reflects a Christian perspective, in my view.🙂
Now, to get to the answers for the questions you ask, we have to go back a few steps, so to speak, and three questions need to be answered first.
Was Judaism founded by God or man?
Was Christianity founded by God or man?
Was Islam founded by God or man?
I fail to understand why the answers to these questions have any bearing on the questions I asked. If you could explain why these questions are pertinent, I would be happy to give an answer. We are called to forgive, to give the benefit of the doubt, to refrain from false witness, and to love everyone regardless of whether they are Muslim, Jewish, or Satanist. Randy, would you please explain your thinking so that I can understand from where you are coming?

Seriously, Randy, if you would like to drop the whole thing, that is fine. We all say and write things that do not really reflect our thinking. Was this one of those times? Join the foot-in-mouth club. I am a life-long member.😃

Shoot. Giants lost game 3. It was close, though.

Pray, with me, for reconciliation in the Middle East. Prayer is much more productive than trading narratives.🙂
 
Shoot. Giants lost game 3. It was close, though.

Pray, with me, for reconciliation in the Middle East. Prayer is much more productive than trading narratives.🙂
Yes, we should pray rather then exchange negative words. And game 4 for Giants hopefully.
 
Prove it beyond all doubt?

You cannot.

Faith is necessary.
Sure. No one ought to be positing otherwise.

You use the same paradigm: you use faith and reason to live your life.

In fact, you know very, very little that you can prove “beyond all doubt”.

So it’s curious that you are holding yourself to a lower standard than you hold Christianity.

Why is that?
 
Sure. No one ought to be positing otherwise.

You use the same paradigm: you use faith and reason to live your life.

In fact, you know very, very little that you can prove “beyond all doubt”.

So it’s curious that you are holding yourself to a lower standard than you hold Christianity.

Why is that?
You’re honestly suggesting that the proving the existence of the physical universe is just as impossible as proving the existence of an invisible supernatural realm that exists outside of time and space?

:rolleyes:
 
You’re honestly suggesting that the proving the existence of the physical universe is just as impossible as proving the existence of an invisible supernatural realm that exists outside of time and space?

:rolleyes:
Not at all.

I am just saying that you live your life on faith, just like the rest of us do.

So just keep that in mind every time you object to someone using faith as a means of apprehending reality. You need to say, “Wait…I do that, too. Shoot! Dern! I can’t really object to this person using faith, too!”
 
Jews, Christians and Muslims are all “people of the Book”, that is, we all believe in God the Father. In some ways we are like the Trinity - Jews = Father, Christians = Son and Muslims = Holy Spirit. Unless we can quit fighting each other there will be no Kingdom of Heaven on Earth.
If we happen to believe that Jesus is Who He said He was/is, many of these, “we”, seem to forget or to ignore that Jesus said something to the effect that, “My Kingdom is not of this earth”.

It is written that Jesus said this, isn’t it?

Not all of this “fighting” is religious as some seem to think it to be, but I would say that we, people, are never going to “build the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth”.
 
The question is WHY did he have to suffer and die for us? Who came up with that plan?
God with His infinite wisdom knows that we have to work out our own salvation but it is very difficult if we are left to our own devices. The best way is to become one of us and put into practice the only way of achieving perfection: to love others so much that when necessary we are prepared to die for them, not just our friends and relatives but complete strangers who need our help. In the eyes of the world this is folly but God wants us to become perfect as He is perfect.
I was always taught there was God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.
Indeed and they are totally united in every conceivable way.
Again…WHO came up with this plan and WHY?
The three divine Persons who act in unison.
It seems awfully harsh to me that God the Father would ask his own son to give up his life for something that wasn’t his fault. Was it God the Son? Was this his plan? That’s not what I was taught.
It is a mistake to differentiate what the Father and Son want and decide. Even in His humanity the Son knew His mission had to be accomplished in spite of the appalling ordeal He would have to endure. The prospect of being betrayed, scourged and crucified is enough to undermine anyone’s resolution and commitment yet Jesus persevered to the very end, revealing the greatest love the world had ever known and inspiring countless others, even non-Christians like Mahatma Gandhi, to follow His way of perfection.
If Jesus died to appease God the Father then what does that say about God the Father?
Sheer nonsense! “The Father and I are one”… To believe otherwise is to reject the precise words of Our Lord.
 
Good Evening, Randy.

Taking in the World Series as I type.😉

If you don’t mind, I am going to bring back the line that started this diversion in the thread:

My question was this: Do you hold anything against the Palestinians? If so, do you forgive them?
You mean other than the fact that they have the stated objective of wiping Israel off the map? No.
One does not have to have a “dog in the fight” to be cheering one side or the other. Are you saying that your statement does not show favor to the Israelis?
By dog in the fight, I mean that I have no ethnic, marital or religions ties to either group. That said, yes, I am a supporter of Israel because God is their supporter first.
If not, please explain why only the hatred on one side is of “satan’s use”. It’s okay and natural to play favorites, it is not a problem. I described the possible problems in my last post.
While Satan is eager to see any hatred and killing regardless of its source, my view is that he establishes false religions to lead people away from God.
Did you give the “Muslims” the benefit of the doubt? That is a Christian perspective. Did you forgive the “Muslims”? That would be a Christian perspective. Did you seek to understand people, to find their good intent? That would be a Christian perspective. I am trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, here, but I do not see an explanation of your statement. You said that satan is using the Muslims. Is this something you actually know, did God tell you this? Did satan? I am giving you the benefit of the doubt in believing that you do not intend to bear false witness, that you mean no harm in the statement even though it can be seen as very provocative and capable of triggering a lot of anger in some people. Do you forgive the “Muslims” if you hold anything against them? That would be the Christian perspective.
Do we judge a tree by its fruit? If so, what is the fruit of Islam? 1.2 Billion people led away from Christ?
Randy, would you please explain your thinking so that I can understand from where you are coming from?
Hopefully, this clears things up.
Seriously, Randy, if you would like to drop the whole thing, that is fine. We all say and write things that do not really reflect our thinking. Was this one of those times? Join the foot-in-mouth club. I am a life-long member.
No, I did not write anything that does not reflect my thinking. I said exactly what I meant, and I meant exactly what I said.

Yes, I would like to drop the whole thing.
 
If God is real, he is neither.

If God is real, he is an indifferent Deity.
Then how do you explain our capacity for unselfish love and compassion. Are we nobler and superior to our Creator - or whatever has brought us into existence?
 
Wrong
Wrong
Wrong ?

God founded Judaism
Jesus, who is God, founded Christianity
Islam — I don’t know
I would agree that “God founded Judaism” since God chose Abram to be the first “Jew” and God went on from there to form the Chosen People.

I refer to Jesus as God-Incarnate since, in my opinion, that is more accurate but not only was it Jesus Who “founded Christianity” but Christianity flowed directly from Judaism so it wasn’t as if it were something completely “new” but something that was/is a natural/supernatural unfolding of what had been started by God.

As far as islam, from what I gather that the “supernatural agent” that came to Muhammed says concerning Jesus and Mary, I would say that the founder of islam was/is satan.

That said, I would add that “God Is a searcher of hearts and minds, not of religious affiliations or lack thereof” and “It is important what one does and why one does it and what one knows”.
 
Prove it beyond all doubt?

You cannot.

Faith is necessary.
When I read in the Bible that Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead after 4 days…and it was witnessed by scores of people …that’s enough proof for me.

St. Thomas put his hands in the wounds of Jesus after the Resurrection & said “My Lord & my God”…Jesus said : “Blessed are they who have not seen and believe.”

Again…enough proof! Same with Old Testament miracles.

You believe what your newspaper prints ( maybe not ) so believe the Bible. People have died for what they saw with their own eyes!
 
Prove it beyond all doubt?

You cannot.

Faith is necessary.
I think/believe that any “proof” of God has to come directly from God whether “personally” or on a “world-wide” scale.
 
Did you give the “Muslims” the benefit of the doubt? That is a Christian perspective. Did you forgive the “Muslims”? That would be a Christian perspective. Did you seek to understand people, to find their good intent.
Quote from: OneSheep

It’s very difficult to forgive those bums with the hoods who beheaded innocent journalists, & others and “find their good intent.”

The U.S. should take a stand & find them & eliminate them. It’s a war!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top