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Hope_Philomena
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I’ve tried having a discussion with you but we are clearly not ever going to make sense to each other. We’re getting into semantics, which is the time to stop.
Is God allowing Satan to do evil the same as God committing the evil Himself?
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Hope_Philomena
Guest
I don’t know how, I just know that God can do everything, even when we don’t understand. It must be possible, as he has non-evildoing free will, and he has the power to accomplish all things.
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IWantGod
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God is love and God will never do anything that is not love. Which means that he is not going to force you into slavery for his own vain entertainment. You don’t even seem to understand what God is.
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IWantGod
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If even the logically impossible is possible in your eyes there is no conversation to be had with you.
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ericc
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- Ability to love freely is better than being robots.
- In order to maximise Good, beings must be free to love. The ability to love freely also enables the ability to reject. Some angels reject, some humans reject. Freedom to do good also allow freedom to do evil. Making many many robots doesn’t maximise anything nor making many plants, animals, nuts and bolts, planets etc.
- Any thing good can be abused to become something bad. Badness is not an intrinsic quality of created beings/things. Not permitting Bad is not a genuine exercise of freewill. An act is bad because the intent was bad. An act that resulted in a bad effect without a bad intent, is not evil. An act that was intended Bad but resulted in good is not Good. Yes a bad act can still be salvaged to squeeze some good out of it. We do that all that time. Repentance can effect that. Creating beings with freewill but not enabling to act freely is a contradiction. Yes, you can create robots that can do “good” only. But God didn’t intend to create robots. He created beings in his image. And I’d presume his image include freewill.
Possibly he is “waiting” for maximum good. Rev 6:10-11. I will venture that as long as the world is not heading for self destruction and population is still growing, maximum good has not been attained yet, notwithstanding evil in the world.
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Hope_Philomena
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You are arguing with me over something I never said. Please stop quoting me. I’ll end our discussion with this:
I never said that God WOULD do something like that, I said that he COULD. I’ve repeated this several times but you aren’t listening because you want to continue this tirade of Christian superiority. Stop it, please. It’s frankly irritating.
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Hope_Philomena
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You think logic is to be had? In a religious discussion? Good luck with that, have fun explaining the immaculate conception to your family doctor.
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IWantGod
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And i’m saying that he can’t because it violates his nature. You simply don’t want freewill, that’s between you and God.
Diamantina
New member
Hmmm… It’s hard to explain. I did not ask to be conceived or to live, although I am now – finally – (usually) grateful that I am alive and have the gifts I possess. There were times in my life where I did not appreciate God’s gift of giving existence to me due to my history of double depression (from adolescence on, I had recurrent episodes of severe acute depression on top of a chronic mild depression, which wreaked havoc on my life plans). Getting the right combination of anti-depressant and anti-psychotic medication about 12 years ago made it easier for me to understand why the Church believes as it does.
Until a few years ago, the concept of redemptive suffering seemed not only alien to me (though I had been baptized Catholic in infancy and began to attend Mass when I was 10 years old) but alienating, horrifying and even horrific. It seemed to me that God was a sadist, even though I wanted to believe that God was good. If free will were an illusion, then God Himself would not be free and everything that I (or anybody else) did or did not do was meant to happen, no matter what. Then nobody would be responsible for anything good or bad that they did. If people had immortal souls (which I had always believed), then there would have to be universalism, since it would be wrong to judge people without free will. A guarantee of Heaven no matter what sounded like a good idea to me.
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Hope_Philomena
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What do you think now? I’ve had many of these thoughts you described, and I have personally yet to find an answer for them.
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ericc
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What do you know about Immaculate Conception? It doesn’t involve family doctors. You don’t even know what it is.
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Hope_Philomena
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I am truly astounded by how little you understood my sentence.
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Thom18
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Correction: God can do everything that’s logical. As in, He can’t make a square a circle because it’s contrary to a circle’s nature to have sides. It’s also contrary to God’s nature to be illogical.
Diamantina
New member
Well, it is now easier for me about 95% of the time to believe that what the Catholic Church says is true. How do I do it? I immerse myself in the Church. I pray Morning and Evening Prayer from the Liturgy of the Hours, as well as other prayers, every day: I read daily Scripture: I usually attend Mass on two or three weekdays every week as well as on Sunday: I am active in my parish as an EMHC and lector: I am a Lay Carmelite (that really helps to give me a sense of belonging in a community, since Catholic parishes here in Southern California are huge): I read books by and about the saints, especially the saints of Carmel, often (I am currently rereading St. Elizabeth of the Trinity’s Letters from Carmel) and I take my meds every day (not just psych meds, but also for asthma and hypothyroidism). I realize that telling you about this sounds like the Pharisee’s humblebrag, for which I ask forgiveness, since I know that I am a sinner and far from perfect. This also sounds a bit like what Pascal suggested to reduce doubt. Ah well!
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Hope_Philomena
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The virgin birth of Jesus is logical? I don’t think religion is always going to seem logical to us because we can’t comprehend certain aspects of it, really. At least, that’s what I always told myself to remain faithful. “Everything happens for a reason” “God has a plan, we just don’t know what it is” etc.
God’s powers aren’t held down by earthly principles, I don’t think.
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Hope_Philomena
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I’m not sure if it comes across as rude for me to say this, I apologize if it does: It seems, from this explanation you offer, that you find it easier to believe the Catholic Church’s more “questionable” doctrines by distracting yourself with the easier but more time-consuming religious works such as frequent prayer and a very active role at your parish.Well, it is now easier for me about 95% of the time to believe that what the Catholic Church says is true. How do I do it? I immerse myself in the Church. I pray Morning and Evening Prayer from the Liturgy of the Hours, as well as other prayers, every day: I read daily Scripture: I usually attend Mass on two or three weekdays every week as well as on Sunday: I am active in my parish as an EMHC and lector: I am a Lay Carmelite (that really helps to give me a sense of belonging in a community, since Catholic parishes here in Southern California are huge): I read books by and about the saints, especially the saints of Carmel, often (I am currently rereading St. Elizabeth of the Trinity’s Letters from Carmel) and I take my meds every day (not just psych meds, but also for asthma and hypothyroidism). I realize that telling you about this sounds like the Pharisee’s humblebrag, for which I ask forgiveness, since I know that I am a sinner and far from perfect. This also sounds a bit like what Pascal suggested to reduce doubt. Ah well!
Is it really believing these difficult thoughts, or is it more of an “ignore the difficult thoughts and enjoy the wonderful aspects of Catholicism”. This is a genuine question. I am also taking medication for depression and thus find myself in a slightly similar situation to you. So I’m very curious as to how you manage (with a mental illness and doubts I also have)
Diamantina
New member
Thanks for the reply. Sorry for the delay – I had some work to do. No, it is not rude of you to say that I distract myself with prayer and parish work. I suppose that I do so. Priests to whom I have confessed have essentially told me not to worry so much about the Church’s more “questionable” doctrines and to enjoy being a Catholic more. If you want to discuss this more with me, you can send me a private message. Again, many thanks
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ericc
Guest
Did you think Immaculate Conception was virgin birth? It is not. Are you astounded? Could you just do a quick google and tell me why a doctor is needed? Your ignorance and laziness is very telling. Stop embarrassing yourself.
It is astounding that you couldn’t even perceive a hint and instead raised your pretended astonishment as a defense.
Perhaps I was wrong after all and I misunderstood your sentence. I am all ears for you to educate me what was the full import of what you wrote. Let us start with doctor and immaculate conception. Tell me the connection.
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Hope_Philomena
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No, I do not think that. Why, in one post, would I refer to the virgin birth as the virgin birth and in another post refer to it as the immaculate conception? I thought it was pretty obvious I was addressing two different posts, two different topics, and thus two different things altogether.
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ericc
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Don’t stop there. I am waiting for your enlightenment.
For centuries, no medical doctors were EVER mentioned in the same breadth as Immaculate Conception. You are the first that I know. I want to know what you know. Please. I am prepared to be chatised for my ignorance.
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