Is Hell Eternal?

[meltzerboy]

I once heard Billy Graham state there is a Protestant belief that those not saved and condemned by G-d to Hell may not actually spend eternity there. Has anyone ever heard about this view? Also, does the Catholic Church have anything to say about the matter?

 

[GEddie]

I once heard Billy Graham state there is a Protestant belief that those not saved and condemned by G-d to Hell may not actually spend eternity there. Has anyone ever heard about this view? Also, does the Catholic Church have anything to say about the matter?

There is no getting out of Hell. Hell is timeless; there is no “term” beyond which one might be released from it.

The Greek used by our LORD to describe the eternity of Hell is the same as used for the the eternity of Heaven, so if one is not eternal, neither is.

I’ll leave the quote from CCC to someone else

ICXC NIKA

 

[Thoughtfulone]

Well, it’s not a popular theory, but “In itself, it is no rejection of Catholic dogma to suppose that God might at times, by way of exception, liberate a soul from hell.”

newadvent.org/cathen/07207a.htm

 

[KyivAndrew]

You may wish to read the following article from the religious Journal First Things written by the late Cardinal Avery Dulles entitled “The Population of Hell”. I quote from it to show how some Catholics, including Cardinals, have written of Hell. The Catechism is clear on Hell, but throughout the Church’s history theologians, even a prominent one such as the late Hans Urs von Balthasar in his book Dare We Hope “That All Men Be Saved? have revealed some interesting thoughts on hell. Balthasar kept company with the last pope and the current. Here from Cardinal Dulles’ article which caused some discussion:

*"Sometimes the complaint is heard that no one preaches about hell any longer. The subject of hell, if not attractive, is at least fascinating, as any reader of Dante’s Inferno or Milton’s Paradise Lost can testify. Equally fascinating, and decidedly more pressing, is the question of how many of us may be expected to go there when we die.

Mention should here be made of a minority opinion among some of the Greek Fathers. Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Gregory Nazianzen, and Gregory of Nyssa sometimes speak as though in the end all will be saved. Origen, the most prominent representative of this view, is generally reported as teaching that at the end of time, the damned, now repentant and purified, will take part in the universal restoration of all things (apokatastasis).

The most sophisticated theological argument against the conviction that some human beings in fact go to hell has been proposed by Hans Urs von Balthasar in his book Dare We Hope “That All Men Be Saved?” He rejects the ideas that hell will be emptied at the end of time and that the damned souls and demons will be reconciled with God. He also avoids asserting as a fact that everyone will be saved. But he does say that we have a right and even a duty to hope for the salvation of all, because it is not impossible that even the worst sinners may be moved by God’s grace to repent before they die. He concedes, however, that the opposite is also possible. Since we are able to resist the grace of God, none of us is safe. We must therefore leave the question speculatively open, thinking primarily of the danger in which we ourselves stand.

This position of Balthasar seems to me to be orthodox. It does not contradict any ecumenical councils or definitions of the faith. It can be reconciled with everything in Scripture, at least if the statements of Jesus on hell are taken as minatory rather than predictive. Balthasar’s position, moreover, does not undermine a healthy fear of being lost. But the position is at least adventurous. It runs against the obvious interpretation of the words of Jesus in the New Testament and against the dominant theological opinion down through the centuries, which maintains that some, and in fact very many, are lost.

Pope John Paul II in his Crossing the Threshold of Hope mentions the theory of Balthasar. After putting the question whether a loving God can allow any human being to be condemned to eternal torment, he replies: “And yet the words of Christ are unequivocal. In Matthew’s Gospel he speaks clearly of those who will go to eternal punishment (cf. Matthew 25:46).”

The constant teaching of the Magisterium has been that unrepentant sinners are sent to eternal punishment. Judas must be in hell unless he repented. It is unfair and incorrect to accuse either Balthasar or Neuhaus of teaching that no one goes to hell. They grant that it is probable that some or even many do go there, but they assert, on the ground that God is capable of bringing any sinner to repentance, that we have a right to hope and pray that all will be saved. The fact that something is highly improbable need not prevent us from hoping and praying that it will happen. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, “In hope, the Church prays for ‘all men to be saved’ (1 Timothy 2:4)” (CCC §1821). At another point the Catechism declares: “The Church prays that no one should be lost” (CCC §1058).

We know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him, and that if we persevere in that love, nothing whatever can separate us from Christ (cf. Romans 8:28-39). That is all the assurance we can have, and it should be enough."*

The full article is here: firstthings.com/article/2008/08/the-population-of-hell-23

The Church teaching on Hell is firm, but as for the population of it and its meaning, the Cardinal’s article reveals that the subject of Hell is studied from many angles by theologians and clergy.

 

[meltzerboy]

Well, it’s not a popular theory, but “In itself, it is no rejection of Catholic dogma to suppose that God might at times, by way of exception, liberate a soul from hell.”

newadvent.org/cathen/07207a.htm

Thanks for sharing this fascinating source. Reading about the various beliefs on the issue, I was struck by the mention of “hatred of G-d” as a sound reason for entrance into Hell on perhaps a permanent basis. It occurred to me that this emotion and attitude may be more applicable to so-called believers who blaspheme G-d by their evil actions than to atheists (not the militant kind) who don’t spend much time thinking about G-d and are instead neutral in their attitudes.

 

[Third_Day]

Well, it’s not a popular theory, but “In itself, it is no rejection of Catholic dogma to suppose that God might at times, by way of exception, liberate a soul from hell.”

newadvent.org/cathen/07207a.htm

You must have missed this from your link:

“But now theologians are unanimous in teaching that such exceptions **never take place **and never have taken place, a teaching which should be accepted.”

And

“The Church expressly teaches the eternity of the pains of hell as a truth of faith which no one can deny or call in question without manifest heresy”.

 

[meltzerboy]

You may wish to read the following article from the religious Journal First Things written by the late Cardinal Avery Dulles entitled “The Population of Hell”. I quote from it to show how some Catholics, including Cardinals, have written of Hell. The Catechism is clear on Hell, but throughout the Church’s history theologians, even a prominent one such as the late Hans Urs von Balthasar in his book Dare We Hope “That All Men Be Saved? have revealed some interesting thoughts on hell. Balthasar kept company with the last pope and the current. Here from Cardinal Dulles’ article which caused some discussion:

*"Sometimes the complaint is heard that no one preaches about hell any longer. The subject of hell, if not attractive, is at least fascinating, as any reader of Dante’s Inferno or Milton’s Paradise Lost can testify. Equally fascinating, and decidedly more pressing, is the question of how many of us may be expected to go there when we die.

Mention should here be made of a minority opinion among some of the Greek Fathers. Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Gregory Nazianzen, and Gregory of Nyssa sometimes speak as though in the end all will be saved. Origen, the most prominent representative of this view, is generally reported as teaching that at the end of time, the damned, now repentant and purified, will take part in the universal restoration of all things (apokatastasis).

The most sophisticated theological argument against the conviction that some human beings in fact go to hell has been proposed by Hans Urs von Balthasar in his book Dare We Hope “That All Men Be Saved?” He rejects the ideas that hell will be emptied at the end of time and that the damned souls and demons will be reconciled with God. He also avoids asserting as a fact that everyone will be saved. But he does say that we have a right and even a duty to hope for the salvation of all, because it is not impossible that even the worst sinners may be moved by God’s grace to repent before they die. He concedes, however, that the opposite is also possible. Since we are able to resist the grace of God, none of us is safe. We must therefore leave the question speculatively open, thinking primarily of the danger in which we ourselves stand.

This position of Balthasar seems to me to be orthodox. It does not contradict any ecumenical councils or definitions of the faith. It can be reconciled with everything in Scripture, at least if the statements of Jesus on hell are taken as minatory rather than predictive. Balthasar’s position, moreover, does not undermine a healthy fear of being lost. But the position is at least adventurous. It runs against the obvious interpretation of the words of Jesus in the New Testament and against the dominant theological opinion down through the centuries, which maintains that some, and in fact very many, are lost.

Pope John Paul II in his Crossing the Threshold of Hope mentions the theory of Balthasar. After putting the question whether a loving God can allow any human being to be condemned to eternal torment, he replies: “And yet the words of Christ are unequivocal. In Matthew’s Gospel he speaks clearly of those who will go to eternal punishment (cf. Matthew 25:46).”

The constant teaching of the Magisterium has been that unrepentant sinners are sent to eternal punishment. Judas must be in hell unless he repented. It is unfair and incorrect to accuse either Balthasar or Neuhaus of teaching that no one goes to hell. They grant that it is probable that some or even many do go there, but they assert, on the ground that God is capable of bringing any sinner to repentance, that we have a right to hope and pray that all will be saved. The fact that something is highly improbable need not prevent us from hoping and praying that it will happen. According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, “In hope, the Church prays for ‘all men to be saved’ (1 Timothy 2:4)” (CCC §1821). At another point the Catechism declares: “The Church prays that no one should be lost” (CCC §1058).

We know that in all things God works for the good of those who love Him, and that if we persevere in that love, nothing whatever can separate us from Christ (cf. Romans 8:28-39). That is all the assurance we can have, and it should be enough."*

The full article is here: firstthings.com/article/2008/08/the-population-of-hell-23

The Church teaching on Hell is firm, but as for the population of it and its meaning, the Cardinal’s article reveals that the subject of Hell is studied from many angles by theologians and clergy.

Very interesting observations. I also wonder how such a loving G-d–who, in His mercy, created a given person–can then condemn that individual to an existence of eternal torment. I know I, a mere human, would feel compassion for such a person, with some possible exceptions, such as Hitler and those of his ilk, whom I cannot envision being saved no matter whether they were repentant at the end of their life or not. I have heard from some Catholics–who may not be knowledgeable on this issue–that Hell is thought of in Catholicism as a separation from G-d (the Jewish viewpoint) and THAT is the eternal torment rather than a literally physical torment. The latter “fire and brimstone” Hell is something, rightly or wrongly, I’ve also associated with old-time Evangelical preachers rather than Catholic clergy.

 

[KyivAndrew]

I also wonder how such a loving G-d–who, in His mercy, created a given person–can then condemn that individual to an existence of eternal torment.

Me too. The Catechism teaches that God predestines nobody to hell, and I believe the assumption is that it is the person him/herself who must willfully reject God’s love, though I agree with you that I believe God is Merciful and perhaps sometimes some of us may discount His love and mercy.

I know I, a mere human, would feel compassion for such a person, with some possible exceptions, such as Hitler and those of his ilk, whom I cannot envision being saved no matter whether they were repentant at the end of their life or not.

Well, I could not picture Hitler in heaven either. It kind of would boggle the mind since God is just and He is aware of all suffering caused by each and every one. How can one responsible for the slaughter of millions enter God’s presence?

I do know, however, that the Church, at least to my initial surprise, has never proclaimed that any particular person is in hell; this is not up to the Church but to God Himself.

I have heard from some Catholics–who may not be knowledgeable on this issue–that Hell is thought of in Catholicism as a separation from G-d (the Jewish viewpoint) and THAT is the eternal torment rather than a literally physical torment.

Yes, I recall some ten years back reading something written by Pope JPII on hell being the absence of God, as you aver above.

I do know that the threat of hell can cause fear and keep pride and sin in check in many; I also know, on the other hand, that there are many thoughtful kind souls who, nevertheless, worry endlessly and almost neurotically of the possibility of hell to the extent that it results in a good person questioning God’s love by always doubting God’s promises.

meltzerboy, I just ran across you a couple of days ago reading one of your posts so welcome to CAF, even though I am two months late.

 

[Doxiemom]

There is something in Scripture that is called The Great White Throne Judgement.

After the Great tribulation, after Jesus reins from Jerusalem for 1000 years, and after Satan is released from the Abyss and the final war has ended, this event happens.

It is unclear where it takes place, but it is not in Heaven, nor is it in hell. The fallen angels, and those who were in hell, are called froth from there to appear before Christ for thier “judgement”, along with Satan, Anti-christ and the False Prophet.

Those who were in Heaven and the angels of Heaven sit in a sort of “jury box” to agree to the final punishment.

This punishment is called “The Lake of Fire” which was prepared for Anti-christ and the False prophet. It will be on earth-some think it may be where the Dead Sea is now. This punishment of the lake of Fire is for eternity, and it is called The Second Death.

Those who were called out of hell ( which is what you may have heard about0 and the fallen angels are also thrown into this Lake of Fire.

There have been some folks who , because it is Written that the lake of Fire was prepared "for Anti-christ, F. prophet, and Satan, that those in hell maybe are not going into it. But so was hell so prepared, so I think it is a wishful hope because , sad as it is, some of our families and friends will have been in hell.

There is that old saying “out of the frying pan, into the fire”, that fits this picture perfectly.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

You must have missed this from your link:

“But now theologians are unanimous in teaching that such exceptions **never take place **and never have taken place, a teaching which should be accepted.”

And

“The Church expressly teaches the eternity of the pains of hell as a truth of faith which no one can deny or call in question without manifest heresy”.

No, I didn’t miss that. That’s why I said it’s not a popular theory. Your last sentence is out of context though. The truth is, although we are required to believe in Hell in general, we are permitted as Catholics to believe that God may release certain souls from Hell in His Mercy without being heretical and without rejecting Catholic dogma.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

Thanks for sharing this fascinating source. Reading about the various beliefs on the issue, I was struck by the mention of “hatred of G-d” as a sound reason for entrance into Hell on perhaps a permanent basis. It occurred to me that this emotion and attitude may be more applicable to so-called believers who blaspheme G-d by their evil actions than to atheists (not the militant kind) who don’t spend much time thinking about G-d and are instead neutral in their attitudes.

No problem! The Catholic encyclopedia is great for any questions you may have about Catholicism. I think it’s definitely safe to say that someone who believes in God and hates Him is in a lot more trouble than someone who just doesn’t see God’s existence as being a valid theory.

 

[confusedius]

Very interesting observations. I also wonder how such a loving G-d–who, in His mercy, created a given person–can then condemn that individual to an existence of eternal torment. I know I, a mere human, would feel compassion for such a person, with some possible exceptions, such as Hitler and those of his ilk, whom I cannot envision being saved no matter whether they were repentant at the end of their life or not. I have heard from some Catholics–who may not be knowledgeable on this issue–that Hell is thought of in Catholicism as a separation from G-d (the Jewish viewpoint) and THAT is the eternal torment rather than a literally physical torment. The latter “fire and brimstone” Hell is something, rightly or wrongly, I’ve also associated with old-time Evangelical preachers rather than Catholic clergy.

I do not believe in the existence of Hell, other than eternal death, nor could I worship a God who needed that to get people to buy in to eternal worship. Hell has certainly served as a great motivator, however- kept a lot of people coming back to church week after week…

james

 

[GaryTaylor]

Sounds about right to me. {Catholic Encyclopedia.}

God Bless, Gary

 

[Third_Day]

No, I didn’t miss that. That’s why I said it’s not a popular theory. Your last sentence is out of context though. The truth is, although we are required to believe in Hell in general, we are permitted as Catholics to believe that God may release certain souls from Hell in His Mercy without being heretical and without rejecting Catholic dogma.

I don’t see how you can come to that conclusion. Can you show me any official writing that says you are permitted to believe that?

Catechism

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs

 

[Thoughtfulone]

I don’t see how you can come to that conclusion. Can you show me any official writing that says you are permitted to believe that?

Catechism

1035 The teaching of the Church affirms the existence of hell and its eternity. Immediately after death the souls of those who die in a state of mortal sin descend into hell, where they suffer the punishments of hell, "eternal fire."The chief punishment of hell is eternal separation from God, in whom alone man can possess the life and happiness for which he was created and for which he longs

Well, it says so in the Catholic Encyclopedia, as I have already cited. God is GOD. If He wants to release someone from hell for whatever reason, He certainly doesn’t need the Church’s permission now does He?

 

[Third_Day]

Well, it says so in the Catholic Encyclopedia, as I have already cited. God is GOD. If He wants to release someone from hell for whatever reason, He certainly doesn’t need the Church’s permission now does He?

The Catholic Encyclopedia is not an official source of Dogma. God cannot lie (Titus 1:2) And the word of God says hell is eternal.
Show me something from the Catechism, the Council of Trent, an encyclical or from scripture

 

[Cristiano]

Well, it says so in the Catholic Encyclopedia, as I have already cited. God is GOD. If He wants to release someone from hell for whatever reason, He certainly doesn’t need the Church’s permission now does He?

You are correct when you say that God is omnipotent but He cannot change because He is the uncaused cause. He said that Hell is eternal and considering that he cannot change he will not make hell not eternal.

 

[meltzerboy]

You are correct when you say that God is omnipotent but He cannot change because He is the uncaused cause. He said that Hell is eternal and considering that he cannot change he will not make hell not eternal.

It seems to Judaism that Christianity believes G-d can change. After all, G-d cautions repeatedly in the Torah (about 100 times) that this is the definitive Law of G-d and beware of any future prophet who proclaims himself as G-d, and yet the New Testament and Jesus revised (or, as Christians say, fulfilled) the Mosaic Law.

 

[Cristiano]

It seems to Judaism that Christianity believes G-d can change. After all, G-d cautions repeatedly in the Torah (about 100 times) that this is the definitive Law of G-d and beware of any future prophet who proclaims himself as G-d, and yet the New Testament and Jesus revised (or, as Christians say, fulfilled) the Mosaic Law.

I think that one big confusion is that people keep thinking of eternity in terms of past, present and future. Eternity is only present. BTW fulfillment is not change, it is completion in chronos.

 

[Thoughtfulone]

The Catholic Encyclopedia is not an official source of Dogma. God cannot lie (Titus 1:2) And the word of God says hell is eternal.
Show me something from the Catechism, the Council of Trent, an encyclical or from scripture

It’s common sense. If God WANTS to personally release someone from Hell, He can do so. He can make an exception, and nothing in Catholic dogma says He cannot.

Also, since God exists outside of time, He can retroactively give someone the grace of final repentance and contrition and take a person who (for all intents and purposes, as we mere mortals see Time) is “IN HELL” out. This is why we pray for the dead. If I were to pray for the soul of Judas right now, even though he has been dead for 2000 years and should be in Hell, God can show Judas the mercy and grace of final repentance, essentially snatching him from the jaws of hell. This in no way contradicts Catholic dogma.