Is Homophobia a sin?

[friardchips]

In order for a sin to be a sin it has to be acted upon. In other words you have to DO something. Thinking is not a sin. You could think about killing someone all your life, you could strongly DESIRE to kill that person…but it would not be a sin until you actually killed the person.

If you consider homophobia to be a sin then you would have to agree that a person with a same sex attraction is sinning even if they do not act on their attraction.

Did you not know that if you entertain any thought that embraces a sinful action in the thought then it becomes sinful if you dwell upon it for too long and therefore something one needs to apologise for?

The CCC is saying the initial feelings for people of their own gender are disordered, they are not saying that them having lustful thoughts about each other if prolonged are not sinful. This rule applies to any human being having thoughts about people that are aggressive or lustful.

If you dream of killing people, if the thought comes to you, you have to turn it away, but if you dwell on it for ages then you need to apologise for that!

As the above poster says, so just editing mine: it becomes an action if dwelt upon (seconding that one also!).

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

But the point is, as another poster has already pointed out, the meaning of words change over time for various reasons and the term is not so much recognised as being the initial ‘fear of something’ but is now widely recognised as also meaning the ‘action resulting from a fear of…’ even though the archaic usage of what the word actually means is simply ‘a fear of’ (if it did ever only mean that (?).

If the new meaning of the term is “'action resulting from a fear of…”. I would agree that the ACTION could be sinful but the 'fear" or any other feeling, for that matter is not sinful.

This is obvious, I think! As has already been discussed in various posts, the long term consequences of fear can be emotions such as hatred, bitterness etc…and so the actions stemming from these could therefore - in light of what is widely recognised as homophobia in the broader, but possibly less accurate sense of the word - result in violence, self-righteous abuse, and murder even - the sorts of things that regularly happens to minorities in some areas of the world. Some of this has been on the news about areas in Africa in the past few months.

I agree that homophobia includes "emotions such as hatred, bitterness etc. But emotions are not sinful.

Now when emotions result in violence, self-righteous abuse, and murder then the Fifth Commandment is violated and a mortal sin is committed.

A homophobe can harbor a strong desire to kill a homosexual, but he remains sinless until he actually kills the homosexual…then he becomes a murderer.

 

[LokisMom]

A homophobe can harbor a strong desire to kill a homosexual, but he remains sinless until he actually kills the homosexual…then he becomes a murderer.

This is not love. One of the most important commandments is to love.

Simply not killing someone is not enough. We must love them. We are commanded to.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Homosexuality is a sexual orientation. Our sexuality is a big part of our being, as humans. Having negative/hateful feelings towards a whole category of people is different from having a sexual orientation.

By sexual orientation, do you include pedophilia and sado masochism? Should I not have negative feelings toward that behavior??

 

[friardchips]

If the new meaning of the term is “'action resulting from a fear of…”. I would agree that the ACTION could be sinful but the 'fear" or any other feeling, for that matter is not sinful.

I agree that homophobia includes "emotions such as hatred, bitterness etc. But emotions are not sinful.

Now when emotions result in violence, self-righteous abuse, and murder then the Fifth Commandment is violated and a mortal sin is committed.

A homophobe can harbor a strong desire to kill a homosexual, but he remains sinless until he actually kills the homosexual…then he becomes a murderer.

Not quite. People don’t get away from harbouring ill-willed desires. Because as explained in two previous posts only just posted - to prolong a thought or desire is to act in the mind -as Loki(name removed by moderator) put it, ‘feeding a thought IS an action’, so counts as an act of ill-will although I would expect it is venial. So, no one can’t harbour evil desires and think it is not sinful. Hence, why my earlier posts I was saying about ‘taking the plank out one’s own eye’ (i.e:- planks of hatred and other unhelpful feelings). Jesus said that to look at someone lustfully is to commit adultery and we hear of concupiscence of the eyes. Well these things one has acted by looking lustfully but the sin still remains in the region of thought: in my heart and mind I have sinned.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Did you not know that if you entertain any thought that embraces a sinful action in the thought then it becomes sinful if you dwell upon it for too long and therefore something one needs to apologise for?
.

How long is “too long”…and then who do I apologize to…???

 

[LokisMom]

By sexual orientation, do you include pedophilia and sado masochism? Should I not have negative feelings toward that behavior??

Sado masochism is not an orientation, it is a fetish. Pedophilia, I don’t know.

But it doesn’t matter. You may hate any and every sinful behavior. In fact, you SHOULD. What you mustn’t do, is hate the people who, by no fault of their own, have these sorts of attractions/fetishes.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

What exactly does the Church say about homophobia?
How does the Church define it?

 

[friardchips]

By sexual orientation, do you include pedophilia and sado masochism? Should I not have negative feelings toward that behaviour??

Yes, but this behaviour can result in non-consensual actions, namely rape and under-age abuse. Kids are at risk. So it becomes an act of safety for minors. Children are not threatened by gay people although two gay people bringing up children is not healthy because children need a mum IMHO. But kids are not directly in danger from gay people as they are from adults with that other sickness.

I would still say that you have to love these people and not wish them dead. It is a sin to harbour and prolong intentionally any desire to harm or hate or lust after or envy another and various other things because they are acts of evil and hatred. As with any sick person, you have to love the sinner and hate the sin.

Referring back to another post you just posted; in terms of ‘what is too long?’ That is why you have a conscience and the Holy Spirit. You know when because you just know. Possibly a minute, I don’t know. Only you can know. That is between God and you. Who do you apologise to? God.

 

[friardchips]

What exactly does the Church say about homophobia?
How does the Church define it?

I would suspect something close to what we have already reasoned. I thought you had already written what it had said (?) But I guess that someone will post soon from the CCC. I hope.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Sado masochism is not an orientation, it is a fetish. Pedophilia, I don’t know.

Sado masochism and pedophilia both fit the definition of sexual orientation as well as hundreds of other sexual “orientations”

But it doesn’t matter. You may hate any and every sinful behavior. In fact, you SHOULD. What you mustn’t do, is hate the people who, by no fault of their own, have these sorts of attractions/fetishes.

I agree with this and would include those who choose their attractions.

But keep in mind, a person who is sexually oriented to children (pedophile) does no wrong UNTIL he molests children.

Same for a homophobe … there is no sin until an action occurs.

 

[friardchips]

As for the Sado wildfires of Hades, they are lustful appetites leading to lustful actions, I suppose. But at worst, in most cases, would end up as being consensual lust, so there are degrees of seriousness here. A minor however cannot understand due to her age anything of a lustful nature and so it is non-consensual action inflicted upon a ‘victim’ born from the irregular appetite of the inflicting party. But all people with sickness are not to be hated long term from the heart of a Christian. No matter what their sickness. A narrow path! God bless!

 

[LokisMom]

Sado masochism and pedophilia both fit the definition of sexual orientation as well as hundreds of other sexual “orientations”

I disagree. I’m not sure about pedophilia, but definitely disagree with sado masochism. Regardless, it doesn’t make a different or change the principle at hand, so no use in arguing about what they are.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

I would suspect something close to what we have already reasoned. I thought you had already written what it had said (?) But I guess that someone will post soon from the CCC. I hope.

Nope…the CCC does not touch on it.

I get the feeling this thread is really nothing more than conjecture.

But I will agree…it’s not nice to think bad thoughts about other people.

 

[friardchips]

Sado masochism and pedophilia both fit the definition of sexual orientation as well as hundreds of other sexual “orientations”

I agree with this and would include those who choose their attractions.

But keep in mind, a person who is sexually oriented to children (pedophile) does no wrong UNTIL he molests children.

Same for a homophobe … there is no sin until an action occurs.

Any evil thought, or disordered emotion or orientation if dwelt upon to the point where one is 'feeding’ it, with one’s imagination, becomes a sin.

 

[LokisMom]

I agree with this and would include those who choose their attractions.

What do you mean by “and would include those who choose their attractions?” Include them in what?

But keep in mind, a person who is sexually oriented to children (pedophile) does no wrong UNTIL he molests children.

This is not true. If he sits at home day dreaming about molesting kids, that is a sin. Friar and I have both tried to explain this to you. Do you not understand?

Same for a homophobe … there is no sin until an action occurs.

A homophobe is a person who hates or ir disgusted by people who are attracted to same sex. We are commanded to love. by not loving, we are breaking one of the most important commandments.

I have already told you that.

This discussion is going in circles.

 

[friardchips]

Nope…the CCC does not touch on it.

I get the feeling this thread is really nothing more than conjecture.

But I will agree…it’s not nice to think bad thoughts about other people.

I have to go but I will have a look tomorrow. It doesn’t matter anyway because it will be in Scripture or some document somewhere. If our reason and faith tells us certain things then these will have been covered by theologians of the Church. Anyway, thanks for the conversation. God bless.

 

[friardchips]

It is nice to agree so absolutely with someone on this forum for a change , LokiMom. Over and out! God bless.

 

[sw85]

A homophobe is a person who hates or ir disgusted by people who are attracted to same sex. We are commanded to love. by not loving, we are breaking one of the most important commandments.

I have already told you that.

This discussion is going in circles.

You are equivocating dangerously here. When people speak of “homophobic hatred,” they are typically talking about negative emotions, and the “love” which counters it is typically understood to be positive emotions. But the “love” we are commanded to exhibit, i.e., toward God and to our neighbors, is not about emotion at all. It is an act of the will, of willing the good of our neighbor for their own sake, and willing the will of God.

So, note, you can in fact hate sodomites in the sense of experiencing negative emotions toward them. But this is not contrary to the law of charity if it is accompanied by prayer for their repentance, conversion, and salvation, and other acts of charity.

And note, too, that the hatred that is forbidden us is forbidden of us toward everyone, not merely sodomites. What use, then, is there in talking about “homophobia” at all?

 

[LokisMom]

It is nice to agree so absolutely with someone on this forum for a change , LokiMom. Over and out! God bless.

Same here! I have enjoyed your commentary! God BLESS!