Is Homophobia a sin?

[friardchips]

Faith cometh by hearing.

I think homophobia is a fake word that is used to arouse a negative emotional response. So, it’s not a sin since only individuals may have negative feelings toward homosexuals. They could have been taught to believe certain negative things about them. Or been exposed to others that encouraged that individual to bully or even injure them. On a few internet forums, if someone is against some gay rights issue, it’s assumed that this anonymous person is homophobic. I think that’s a wrong assumption to make and doesn’t define anything. I think being against some gay rights issue does mean a person is a ‘fake word’ by default.

Ed

‘Faith cometh by hearing’ :… God, and seeing God in others and treating them as one would want to be treated oneself if one had a cross to bear that was obvious, or hidden even, from others.

I know what you are thinking - that to be against something to whatever level isn’t necessarily a phobia. It might stem from righteousness. But I think that homophobia, as I said in an earlier post, is understood as being a word not just born from the initial reasons for opposition to homosexuality, but due to minority-hating people, or people-haters, that act negatively towards certain other vulnerable people who exist. To assume a word doesn’t exist when it does is a bit confused, I think anyway. It is used so we have to deal with it. And I think it does exist as a word also because there is the fear aspect.

As well as having one’s own belief in one’s heart of what is right or wrong, it is the loving friendship, not the divide, that is the love. The divide may be due to people trying to love, but it is still where the healing needs to occur. I believe any other understanding to be partial and underestimating the power of God’s mercy to heal. Is that divide going to be healed by arguing or by acts of loving kindness and good example?

The ‘sanctity of life’ issues are very real but I think there are people in whose trust our faith lies that are in superior positions to us that have the authority to speak out in a loving but honest way regarding these issues. If I was asked to sign something that went against my faith I would not sign. If I was asked to sign something speaking against homosexuals legally raising children I would sign, as long as these ways of opposition have been approved in the R.C Church as acceptable, because I am not judging the person 's character but defending the wellbeing of future children who need a mum. But what homosexual people feel for one another I don’t know but that is not for me to judge or speak against because God is the judge of their feelings and thoughts. If I was asked by a homosexual person if I thought it was natural or not, which they no doubt wouldn’t, I would answer honestly and I reserve that gentle opinion for them. If it was someone I knew well I might feel encouraged or called to speak more frankly but not with words of condemnation.

I glanced inside a little prayer book last night called :‘Jan Budziaszek - The Royal Way of the Cross’, and on the first page, the ‘First Station’, it says, and please excuse the length of this, but is relevant. I’ll copy it as it is written:

'Jesus Is Condemned To Die. We adore Thee, O Christ, and we praise Thee, because Thy holy cross Thou hast redeemed the world…

It is love that makes an innocent man assume a guilty man’s guilt…

On his way to Pontius Pilate, Jesus experienced how it feels to be abandoned by friends in misfortune. Some went home, others joined the rabble. Mary, Jesus’ Mother, saw groups of people from Capernaum whom Jesus had healed and taught, and she thought at least they would demand His release. Unfortunately, they pretended not to know Him. And when the rabble demanded death for her Son, they joined in…

Standing by this first station, I wonder whom more often I follow in my life - Jesus or His accusers. Every day I accuse someone of something and cannot communicate with Him…

If it wasn’t for you, everything for you would be so fine. And all that derision: you made your bed, so now lie in it - I’m not going to help you…

Everyone around me is guilty. Only I am right. My Master! In fact my Christianity ends at the first station, when there’s still a long way to go…

I feel as if I’m standing in front of Pilate’s palace. The Holy Mother is with us as well. The only thing is, She sees better, like she once saw the people of Capernaum.’

---

 

[friardchips]

…typo (knew it would happen): Not: ‘…everything for you would be so fine…’, but supposed to be,: ‘…everything would be so fine’…sorry.

Also, a poster on another thread and subject, referenced St.JPII, when speaking about the Saint’s work of building bridges with other groups of people - the poster mentioned that these bridges were built from seeing the good in others - seeing God in others; this is ‘understanding’ and listening. ‘Being loving’ and ‘being kind’ incorporates ‘understanding’ and listening.

Another point: when one tries to understand and listens instead of making judgements then one loses any fear aspect too and this is when bridges of faith and love can be built.

 

[edwest2]

If it wasn’t for “those people” - Catholics - everything would be fine. That is the current message being preached. Look at the history of the gay rights movement. Is it based on facts or not? If not, then promoting it is not a good idea. Again, if I see 100 people in a mall, I can tell who is white, black or Oriental, I can’t tell if any of them is gay.

Homophobia is an emotion word devoid of content.

Peace,
Ed

 

[friardchips]

If it wasn’t for “those people” - Catholics - everything would be fine. That is the current message being preached. Look at the history of the gay rights movement. Is it based on facts or not? If not, then promoting it is not a good idea. Again, if I see 100 people in a mall, I can tell who is white, black or Oriental, I can’t tell if any of them is gay.

Homophobia is an emotion word devoid of content.

Peace,
Ed

What has white, black or oriental got to do with homosexuality?

You have unfortunately read into a holy prayer and taken from it anger and poison. This is not the fault of the prayer because the angle from which I have expressed my views is not promoting anything apart from trying to understand another’s plight. This is compassion.

The point I made quite clearly with the prayer is that if we do not judge then we can try and see God in people. If we are seeing God in people then we are not criticising them but offering them bridges of mercy and love. No one is telling you to not oppose laws that affect ‘sanctity of life’ if there are accepted means of witnessing validated by the R.C Church.

In the prayer it says: ‘it is love that makes an innocent man assume a guilty man’s guilt.’

In this situation this could be taken to mean quite clearly, without you twisting the meaning, that just as Christ could have responded instead of remaining silent as the sacrificial lamb all the way to the Cross to offer Himself for sinners - including you and me -we could try and understand and be there for people without judging them. If you don’t believe me then look in the Bible. It says: “Do not judge others, and you will not be judged”.

Do you really think that you are going to do any good whatsoever ranting and raving about how homophobia is not a word and in doing so succeed in changing the hearts of people who might see this thread and who possibly see no reason to change and maybe understand they are battling with something severe or do you think they are going to think you are not empathising with them? (I am not saying you not are but making a point!)…

Don’t you believe that someone is more likely to listen through kindness and gentleness of heart, a peacemaker, a doer of kindness? (The beatitudes). It comes down to why you want to verbally oppose? Are you doing it because you want to be right or are you doing it because you care about the hearts of those who are this way inclined?

I don’t know what you intend to do or why you want to do these things but all I am saying is we have to be careful sometimes why we are doing something so that we can take the plank out our own eyes first. Then wisdom will bear fruit. So I stick to my final posts and I can see this discussion between us is not progressing. You responded to my posts initially so if you were not up for discussion and rather simply intended to slam down your opposition without reasonable counter-arguments to my views concerning the Christian approach, and why homophobia might be a word, then, well done, you’ve done that now.

God bless.

 

[kozlosap]

Friardchips:

Edwest2 consistently listens to others and does much research from which we all benefit. Although Ed and I disagree frequently on social issues, he always respond with thought and Christian charity.

 

[friardchips]

Friardchips:

Edwest2 consistently listens to others and does much research from which we all benefit. Although Ed and I disagree frequently on social issues, he always respond with thought and Christian charity.

Thank you.

God bless.

 

[Joie_de_Vivre]

What I have to say about Phelps would get me banned for a couple of lifetimes, but the Uganda laws, altho very strict, are against *actions *and not merely having homosexual attractions.

Hatred against people is wrong. Hatred of *all *sin, esp our own, is what we all should be striving for.

That law is the furthering of a very worrisome trend in a country where people are already arrested, beaten and tortured for being perceived as gay by the police.

Homophobia is Freudian monkey brain twaddle and 99% of the time it is used, it is as a distracting ad hominem fallacy.

1. “Homophobia is Freudian monkey brain twaddle” doesn’t make sense
2. “99% of the time it is used, it is as a distracting ad hominem fallacy” what a wonderfully arbitrary statistic, got any sources?

All of the above are examples of evil acts deserving of strong condemnation, but “homophobia” isn’t a helpful term at all. What it is rather is a subtle attempt at reframing the debate. That is, instead of talking about the inherent wrongness of homosexual acts, “homophobia” is deployed as attempt to distract by suggesting that the one arguing for the wrongness of homosexual acts has some mental or moral shortcoming. It’s BS Political Correctness – which is worse than lying. With lying, one is merely deceiving someone else. Political Correctness attempts to harangue or coerce people into lying to themselves.

But moreover, even if we accept this term. “phobia” implies an irrational fear, and if it’s irrational, then it is not chosen and hence, not sin anymore than arachnophobia is a sin. One can’t have it both ways.

I have seen violence and hate motivated by an irrational fear of gay people.

I still don’t understand why we used the term homophobia to describe dislike or hatred of homosexuals. Homophobia means “fear of homosexuals”.

When people tell me that I am homophobic I simply reply, “No, I’m not scared of homosexuals.”

Originally it was used to refer to ostensibly straight men being afraid of being perceived as gay.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Who coined the word homophobia?

And for what reason?

 

[Rob_Arnzen]

It’s funny to me that those who wish to debate on issues that are mainstream and part of everyday conversation would not use every source available in order to learn and mature in their views. I try and read and then personally disect articles from many different news organizations: NYT, Catholic Register, Huff Post, Fox, Washington Post…

At least two of those sources have a track record of anti-Catholicism.

Generally when I want to hone my moral sense, I don’t frequent four of your sources.

.

 

[Rob_Arnzen]

I read this blog post submitted to the Huffington Post by Mark Baer. It pretty much describes my very own thoughts on homophobia. It’s a very long blog, and whether or not you believe or do not believe there are those who disallow the very existence of gay individuals, you will learn something.

“It is no surprise to me that students from a Catholic School beat the living daylights out of a gay couple recently. To be clear, this is only the most recent high profile example of such gay bashing. What do you think happens when you vilify such people? It amazes me that the Catholic Church can’t understand why people of religion would do such a thing. It seems to me that our society, with the help of religious beliefs, manages to justify such behavior with regard to the LGBT community.”

I learned Mark Baer is anti-Catholic.

.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Homophobia IS NOT a sin!

Since the Catechism defines homosexual tendencies or inclination, as objectively disordered, and therefore not a sin in itself…then homophobia would be nothing more than a sinless fear or dislike. There is no sin in “fear” or being repulsed by an activity or disliking something.

A homophobe remains sinless until he acts on his homophobia.

 

[friardchips]

Homophobia IS NOT a sin!

Since the Catechism defines homosexual tendencies or inclination, as objectively disordered, and therefore not a sin in itself…then homophobia would be nothing more than a sinless fear or dislike. There is no sin in “fear” or being repulsed by an activity or disliking something.

A homophobe remains sinless until he acts on his homophobia.

I’d say that a homosexual tendency IS sinful but the inclination is disordered. I don’t think anyone here is saying that to feel slightly repulsed by something disordered is sinful but rather what one’s slight fear or repulse can turn into can be. I can show I don’t like something with subtlety by turning away slightly in silent witness and this doesn’t involve taking people apart with bold self-righteousness or bloody-mindedness, and it doesn’t risk an argument, judging, and ending up being a witness for evil rather than good; it’s just a gentle reprove to show one feels a bit uncomfortable. I don’t want to shatter people - not being a perfect being myself, what right have I?

 

[friardchips]

Homophobia IS NOT a sin!

Since the Catechism defines homosexual tendencies or inclination, as objectively disordered, and therefore not a sin in itself…then homophobia would be nothing more than a sinless fear or dislike. There is no sin in “fear” or being repulsed by an activity or disliking something.

A homophobe remains sinless until he acts on his homophobia.

Btw…I was responding to your post as if tendency is more like ‘acting upon’, the ‘act of’, and inclination is still in the area of ‘thoughts’ or ‘feelings’. But I think the correct usage is that they mean the same thing, as you wrote it.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Btw…I was responding to your post as if tendency is more like ‘acting upon’, the ‘act of’, and inclination is still in the area of ‘thoughts’ or ‘feelings’. But I think the correct usage is that they mean the same thing, as you wrote it.

Tendencies and inclinations are treated the same in the Catechism and are understood to be the same by many posters on the forum.

My point is that “feelings”, attitudes, thoughts and even deep seated ill will are not sins. Homophobia by definition embraces feelings, attitudes, thoughts, etc…therefore it cannot be considered a sin.

BTW…I wonder what would be considered a “homophobic action”???

 

[LokisMom]

I think that yes, it is a sin to view another person as disgusting/repulsive simply because they are have same sex attraction.

One of God’s greatest commandments is to love our neighbors. I think homophobia breaks that commandment.

 

[friardchips]

Tendencies and inclinations are treated the same in the Catechism and are understood to be the same by many posters on the forum.

My point is that “feelings”, attitudes, thoughts and even deep seated ill will are not sins. Homophobia by definition embraces feelings, attitudes, thoughts, etc…therefore it cannot be considered a sin.

But the point is, as another poster has already pointed out, the meaning of words change over time for various reasons and the term is not so much recognised as being the initial ‘fear of something’ but is now widely recognised as also meaning the ‘action resulting from a fear of…’ even though the archaic usage of what the word actually means is simply ‘a fear of’ (if it did ever only mean that (?).

BTW…I wonder what would be considered a “homophobic action”???

This is obvious, I think! As has already been discussed in various posts, the long term consequences of fear can be emotions such as hatred, bitterness etc…and so the actions stemming from these could therefore - in light of what is widely recognised as homophobia in the broader, but possibly less accurate sense of the word - result in violence, self-righteous abuse, and murder even - the sorts of things that regularly happens to minorities in some areas of the world. Some of this has been on the news about areas in Africa in the past few months.

 

[friardchips]

I think that yes, it is a sin to view another person as disgusting/repulsive simply because they are have same sex attraction.

One of God’s greatest commandments is to love our neighbors. I think homophobia breaks that commandment.

Thank goodness! Some Christian good sense and niceness at last!

 

[LokisMom]

Thank goodness! Some Christian good sense and niceness at last!

Thank you.

It really is that simple!

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

I think that yes, it is a sin to view another person as disgusting/repulsive simply because they are have same sex attraction.

One of God’s greatest commandments is to love our neighbors. I think homophobia breaks that commandment.

In order for a sin to be a sin it has to be acted upon. In other words you have to DO something. Thinking is not a sin. You could think about killing someone all your life, you could strongly DESIRE to kill that person…but it would not be a sin until you actually killed the person.

If you consider homophobia to be a sin then you would have to agree that a person with a same sex attraction is sinning even if they do not act on their attraction.

 

[LokisMom]

In order for a sin to be a sin it has to be acted upon. In other words you have to DO something. Thinking is not a sin. You could think about killing someone all your life, you could strongly DESIRE to kill that person…but it would not be a sin until you actually killed the person.

Feeding a thought, IS an action. We must strive for love.

If you consider homophobia to be a sin then you would have to agree that a person with a same sex attraction is sinning even if they do not act on their attraction.

Homosexuality is a sexual orientation. Our sexuality is a big part of our being, as humans. Having negative/hateful feelings towards a whole category of people is different from having a sexual orientation.