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buffalo
Guest
Got it. So when you found out you rejected their decision and they are upset because they thought in good faith they made the best decision.
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pathia
Guest
Well I started rejecting their decision at about the age of 4. I just didn’t know what I was doing, that’s why I was put into all that therapy. At the time John Money’s theories were in force, even in the religious community. You just had to raise a child as the gender you want it to identify as, and it’ll be that gender.Got it. So when you found out you rejected their decision and they are upset because they thought in good faith they made the best decision.
It isn’t that simple though, and I rejected it quite early and fairly often. They just thought that that meant I may grow up to be gay, there wasn’t really any thoughts of me being transsexual, because to those therapists it’s just a continuum, being transsexual is the farther extreme of being gay.
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buffalo
Guest
Why are you so upset by them? You can see by all the postings surrounding your situation that this whole thing is not so easy.Well I started rejecting their decision at about the age of 4. I just didn’t know what I was doing, that’s why I was put into all that therapy. At the time John Money’s theories were in force, even in the religious community. You just had to raise a child as the gender you want it to identify as, and it’ll be that gender.
It isn’t that simple though, and I rejected it quite early and fairly often. They just thought that that meant I may grow up to be gay, there wasn’t really any thoughts of me being transsexual, because to those therapists it’s just a continuum, being transsexual is the farther extreme of being gay.
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pathia
Guest
Upset by whom? I am not upset with my family, they are upset with me and don’t accept anything I’ve done. If I go home, which is rare, I have to be a drag king, as it were. I love them, but we just can’t tolerate each other’s presence…does that make any sense?Why are you so upset by them? You can see by all the postings surrounding your situation that this whole thing is not so easy.
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buffalo
Guest
In a way. I can see there is much pain. Do they know you love them? Do they feel guilty?Upset by whom? I am not upset with my family, they are upset with me and don’t accept anything I’ve done. If I go home, which is rare, I have to be a drag king, as it were. I love them, but we just can’t tolerate each other’s presence…does that make any sense?
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pathia
Guest
They just get very offended and upset if the subject ever comes up. They don’t want to discuss it, that’s why I go out of my way to portray myself as male in their presence. If I am there as my normal female self, it just begs the question and makes it too awkward for them to associate with me even in something as simple as dinner. They apologize for the therapy and other things, but I don’t think they’ve ever apologized for the surgery.In a way. I can see there is much pain. Do they know you love them? Do they feel guilty?
It’s somewhat ironic though, and makes it even stranger, when we’re out as there’s nothing I can do about my voice. I sound female, and my face is fairly so, so instead people take me for a butch lesbian. So…there’s no real pleasing all situations. My family will get poked about the situation regardless of what I do to change the situation for them.
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Bennie_P
Guest
John Money the guy who thought he could make a child any sex he wanted? You really do confuse me now. He did surgery which made boys in to girls, not girls, or the intersex into boys?Well I started rejecting their decision at about the age of 4. I just didn’t know what I was doing, that’s why I was put into all that therapy. At the time John Money’s theories were in force, even in the religious community. You just had to raise a child as the gender you want it to identify as, and it’ll be that gender.
It isn’t that simple though, and I rejected it quite early and fairly often. They just thought that that meant I may grow up to be gay, there wasn’t really any thoughts of me being transsexual, because to those therapists it’s just a continuum, being transsexual is the farther extreme of being gay.
While trying to get a handle on this I came across this article On Frist Things, I think you should give it a read. Please take your time and give me your (name removed by moderator)ut. PAX.
Surgical Sex by Paul McHugh
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NoMoreGames
Guest
I didn’t read through all 42 pages, so my apologies if this has been said already. If it is genetic (and I’m not saying it is) people who are saying it would die out are showing their lack of education. Two parents, both with brown eyes, can have a blue eyed baby. Things can be recessive.
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pathia
Guest
His ‘results’ (Which were fake). Said that a child would grow up to be whatever gender you raised the child as, that it was malleable. His own personal test case was a boy that had a botched circumcision and made into a girl, but his ‘results’ were applied to every which situation and direction. The results were quite the contrary, his test case rejected his forced feminine identity from the very start.John Money the guy who thought he could make a child any sex he wanted? You really do confuse me now. He did surgery which made boys in to girls, not girls, or the intersex into boys?
While trying to get a handle on this I came across this article On Frist Things, I think you should give it a read. Please take your time and give me your (name removed by moderator)ut. PAX.
**Surgical Sex **by Paul McHugh
This actually only furthers the cause of transsexuals in some cases. Their expressed female (or maleness) comes out at an incredibly early age and is almost completely unchangeable in all cases, like mine.
As for Paul McHugh, I dislike using the word ‘hate’. So I will not say I hate the man, but I loathe him incredibly. That is my thought, I have seen that article thrown in my face many many many many times. Not your fault, I realize you don’t know that, but it gets ooooold really fast.
He shut down the gender program at John Hopkins, which led to the suicide of the friends of some older transsexuals I know. (It was shut down in 1979, before I was born) They lost all hope, all options, so they simply ended it, partially because of this man’s actions at John Hopkin’s.
So, I do not care for him, or his ideas in the slightest, because he has caused so much harm to some I know, and to some who I never met because they killed themselves over the lack of options. I am not saying it is the ONLY reason they did, I didn’t know them, I can’t guess their thoughts, but their one outlet, their one source for all therapy, all treatment, all everything, was instantly erased by this man.
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panoikei
Guest
Doesn’t this thread belong under Moral Theology?
I think some of you don’t realize or accept that even in a heterosexual relationship the partners must be open to life. That includes open to a miracle of life even if you believe you are steril. God must not be shut out. That is like killing God, even if you really can’t kill him. You deny him to act through you to create life. Doing anything that prevents this is not acceptable to Him. How do we know this? He has revealed this to us through time and through His word and through the Jewsand through the Church…Catholic Church. This has been passed on down from the beginning. “Be fruitful and multiply”. Also, He condemened acts of homosexuality. Look at Onan when he “spilled his seed”. catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0663.html
After reading this you might get the gist that this concept of spilling your seed anywhere being okay is a new concept. Sin has been with us since the fall of man. But we can’t hide the truth from God like Adam and Eve tried to act like nothing was wrong in the garden. Sooner or later God’s gonna call us on our sins. I personally see “spilling your seed” or shutting off God from creating life as evil as abortion.
I think some of you don’t realize or accept that even in a heterosexual relationship the partners must be open to life. That includes open to a miracle of life even if you believe you are steril. God must not be shut out. That is like killing God, even if you really can’t kill him. You deny him to act through you to create life. Doing anything that prevents this is not acceptable to Him. How do we know this? He has revealed this to us through time and through His word and through the Jewsand through the Church…Catholic Church. This has been passed on down from the beginning. “Be fruitful and multiply”. Also, He condemened acts of homosexuality. Look at Onan when he “spilled his seed”. catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0663.html
After reading this you might get the gist that this concept of spilling your seed anywhere being okay is a new concept. Sin has been with us since the fall of man. But we can’t hide the truth from God like Adam and Eve tried to act like nothing was wrong in the garden. Sooner or later God’s gonna call us on our sins. I personally see “spilling your seed” or shutting off God from creating life as evil as abortion.
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pathia
Guest
What seed? I don’t even HAVE gonads (Testes or ovaries) they were removed in puberty.After reading this you might get the gist that this concept of spilling your seed anywhere being okay is a new concept. Sin has been with us since the fall of man. But we can’t hide the truth from God like Adam and Eve tried to act like nothing was wrong in the garden. Sooner or later God’s gonna call us on our sins. I personally see “spilling your seed” or shutting off God from creating life as evil as abortion.
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panoikei
Guest
It doesn’t matter whether your “stuff” is in tact. God wills for us to follow His law, not ours. God may be calling you into chastity of celibacy. Go for it. Want to grow spiritually? Become a celibate.
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Bennie_P
Guest
It seems to me he (Dr. Hughs) stopped what seems like what was insanity running wild posing as medicine. In fact stopped more people from getting butchured, it seems that you what your misery and then top it off with having more of your misery, sorry for this attempt at having a real conservation failing. This is going to be my last post to you.His ‘results’ (Which were fake). Said that a child would grow up to be whatever gender you raised the child as, that it was malleable. His own personal test case was a boy that had a botched circumcision and made into a girl, but his ‘results’ were applied to every which situation and direction. The results were quite the contrary, his test case rejected his forced feminine identity from the very start.
This actually only furthers the cause of transsexuals in some cases. Their expressed female (or maleness) comes out at an incredibly early age and is almost completely unchangeable in all cases, like mine.
As for Paul McHugh, I dislike using the word ‘hate’. So I will not say I hate the man, but I loathe him incredibly. That is my thought, I have seen that article thrown in my face many many many many times. Not your fault, I realize you don’t know that, but it gets ooooold really fast.
He shut down the gender program at John Hopkins, which led to the suicide of the friends of some older transsexuals I know. (It was shut down in 1979, before I was born) They lost all hope, all options, so they simply ended it, partially because of this man’s actions at John Hopkin’s.
So, I do not care for him, or his ideas in the slightest, because he has caused so much harm to some I know, and to some who I never met because they killed themselves over the lack of options. I am not saying it is the ONLY reason they did, I didn’t know them, I can’t guess their thoughts, but their one outlet, their one source for all therapy, all treatment, all everything, was instantly erased by this man.
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padre_pio
Guest
**
God doesnt call people to be celibate. 'They are either born eunochs, which Jesus made reference to in scripture, or they are homosexual.
God doesnt call people to be celibate. 'They are either born eunochs, which Jesus made reference to in scripture, or they are homosexual.
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mmplps7783
Guest
so you are saying that priests and nuns either don’t have the proper equipment or are homosexuals? Are you for real?**
God doesnt call people to be celibate. 'They are either born eunochs, which Jesus made reference to in scripture, or they are homosexual.
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padre_pio
Guest
A huge number are.
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pathia
Guest
I am sorry you seem to think dialog has failed. I am not miserable, almost all I speak of is past tense things. It is only butchery when it is not a choice, when people make assumptions and guesses about an infant who cannot speak for itself. That is what I wish to stop. However that is the norm and people look at me funny for it, then look even more confused when I am ok with adults making choices about their bodies. It seems uterly backwards to meIt seems to me he (Dr. Hughs) stopped what seems like what was insanity running wild posing as medicine. In fact stopped more people from getting butchured, it seems that you what your misery and then top it off with having more of your misery, sorry for this attempt at having a real conservation failing. This is going to be my last post to you.
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pathia
Guest
God wills it? God willed the doctors to sterilize and butcher my body in such a way to never feel anything in my life? To never be capable of anything at all? I am chaste, but not by choice. I had that removed from me before I was even capable of speaking.It doesn’t matter whether your “stuff” is in tact. God wills for us to follow His law, not ours. God may be calling you into chastity of celibacy. Go for it. Want to grow spiritually? Become a celibate.
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mmplps7783
Guest
I am so sorry to disagree with the people who are posting right now (no I’m not) but there is seriously something wrong and I feel more inclined to pray for you than for Pathia. First of all human chose her sex not God. But I will say one thing that might offend. When someone is raped humans did it not God. But it is in the fire that steel is made into a sword. God never said that we wouldn’t have trials in this world but to be of good cheer because he overcame this world. People just have to realize that what the devil intends for evil God makes something good.God wills it? God willed the doctors to sterilize and butcher my body in such a way to never feel anything in my life? To never be capable of anything at all? I am chaste, but not by choice. I had that removed from me before I was even capable of speaking.
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ladybri77
Guest
I wholeheartedly agree with you, puzzleannie. It’s never been proven that it’s genetic, in fact, there have been many books written of people who have had some emotional hurt, abuse and pain inflicted on them, and it’s the way they reacted to it that effects whether or not they develop these feelings. We didn’t choose the feelings, but we can choose the behavior, of which to ACT on it is a sin, but we don’t have to let the feelings control us.My opinion on this topic has no value. This fact could only be determined scientifically, and so far no valid scientific study has proved that homosexuality is linked to a certain gene. The two studies that claim to do so are seriously flawed in their method and are not considered valid by serious scientists. There is some evidence that some homosexuals may have been subject to in utero influences, probably hormonal, that affected the deveopment of their sexuality.
Another possibility is gene mutation, damage of the ovum or sperm of the parent (or grandparent) which affected development of reproductive system, including hormonal system. The developing embryo can also be damaged by outside influences - drugs, virus, radiation etc. Either of these are likely as the cause of true hermaphroditism, or errors in correctly assigning gender to newborns which of course leads to gender identity problems later in life.
To say that this or any disorder is present at birth is not the same as saying its cause is genetic. There are many other pre-birth influences that could play a part, but so far no study as definitely established such a cause for the disorder in any or all homosexual persons.
By the way, your opinion has much value.
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