Is illegal immigration a sin?

[kimmielittle]

Well, I don’t think I’ll try to sum up again to get a handle on what people are saying.

If I took your posts meaning wrong - I truly apologize. Please forgive me

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Ok this one of your did strike a chord Because Although my ehtnicity skin tone is dark black hair and dark eyes etc… My self I am light skinned.I dont fit the steriotypical
Native American/Italian profile.

I never made an acertion of your physical look so please use care on your assumptions.

Being “white” I had my vehicle stopped and check by TWO check point (border control) comming back from Mexico.They didnt care what colour I was I had to prove my citizenship…Does that confuse you?

Nope you went to a check point and got checked, same for me. However if you’re white and go to a grocery store in a grey truck no check, yet non whites can be checked in grey trucks, and thus the problem.

I suggest you take a trip out to Terminal D and see how the “whites” are detained,checked for visas etc… maybe that will make you feel better.I suspect you dont travel much by your comment.

No need the issue is not when you check all the issue is when you check 10 brown people in a van who are not at a check point or on a border.

** Ok and where did I say it wasnt grey? Did you confuse greencard with grey truck? ** I am not confused, the white guy was not checked for immigration because he was white. Had he been another color he could be checked for immigration. Since he was white citizenship should not be considered, if he was not white a Green Card should be requested, and you do not think that shows a race issue.

 

[Texas_Roofer]

The more I read your posts on this…IMHO they sound like what contractors who hire illegals say.

And why would you say that? Can you give any reasonable means to support that opinion? Catholics have often stood up for the oppressed, go back and look at the priests in the 1960’s civil rights marchs.

 

[kimmielittle]

And why would you say that?

You give me reason to think it…I already furnished you reasonable reason…by stating “The more I read your posts on this…IMHO they sound like what contractors who hire illegals say”…

Catholics have often stood up for the oppressed, go back and look at the priests in the 1960’s civil rights marchs.

Now, illegals are the oppressed? You are welcome to sell that theory to someone other than me. Illegally in this Country, they are no more oppressed than any other Citizen.

If you mean by their Illegal status…they find themselves having to hide that status…and thus oppressed…** It is self rendered- self chosen oppression **.

The difference between Civil Rights and this…can be clearly seen. Illegals,by their own acts…cause their problems.

Your logic has serious flaws to attempt to connect the two.

Jim Crow Laws were oppressive to ** innocent ** people…Not lawbreaking illegal immigrants who choose to commit to law breaking status.

Don’t you think we’ve allowed the hijacking of this thread…long enough?

Is illegal Immigration a sin? Unless you throw out every moral principle you’ve taught me as a Catholic…just to condone **illegal immigrants ** Yes…Dishonesty is a sin…Lies by omission IS a sin…Out right lies…is a sin…coveting your neighbors goods is a sin…stealing ID…is a sin

 

[Texas_Roofer]

You give me reason to think it…

Nope, not a chance. those inferences came from your brain, I contributed nothing, nothing at all. btw they are false inferences (if that matters to you)

I already furnished you reasonable reason...by stating "The more I read your posts on this....IMHO they sound like what contractors who hire illegals say"...

Nothing in the post infers that

Now, illegals are the oppressed?

Yes, Most simply they are fulfilling God’s Law also known as Divine Law. It was not them nor God who drew imaginary lines and then labeled them as criminals when they went to work

You are welcome to sell that theory to someone other than me. Illegally in this Country, they are no more oppressed than any other Citizen.

If you mean by their Illegal status…they find themselves having to hide that status…and thus oppressed…** It is self rendered- self chosen oppression **.

The difference between Civil Rights and this…can be clearly seen. Illegals,by their own acts…cause their problems.

Your logic has serious flaws to attempt to connect the two.

Jim Crow Laws were oppressive to ** innocent ** people…Not lawbreaking illegal immigrants who choose to commit to law breaking status.

Don’t you think we’ve allowed the hijacking of this thread…long enough?

Is illegal Immigration a sin? Unless you throw out every moral principle you’ve taught me as a Catholic…just to condone **illegal immigrants ** Yes…Dishonesty is a sin…Lies by omission IS a sin…Out right lies…is a sin…coveting your neighbors goods is a sin…stealing ID…is a sin

Wow, when black broke the laws like voting, eating in white restaurants, drinking from white only fountains, or riding in the front of the bus you support their illegal activities? Yet when some people go to work you call then sinners!

You did get one thing right lies by omission are sins, I think you are pointing at the wrong people though those who are going to work are not lying by omission, those who stain them with insults and accuse them of theft maybe who you should look at.

 

[russell007]

**I never made an acertion of your physical look so please use care on your assumptions. **

And I never made an acertion that you did.I was responding to YOUR assumption white people do not get checked for immigration status. I gave you a personal account of what Ive been through as a white skin person. Remember reading on about Terminal D and so on? Its a rebutle tou your white people dont get checked for immigrataion status Yes they do.

** yet non whites can be checked in grey trucks, and thus the problem.**

Your wrong there to laws reads if an arrest is made or a violation of the laws is commited Then they have the right to check (Law enforcement city and state) Its under probable cause. Just like when cops stop a car for speeding broekn tail lights etc… and check for drugs (and they usually find some) while there at it they also run your tags. Its their job
to check for any possible illiegal activities.

Are they going to have check points and harras dark skin people the answer is NO.

Will they be checking every single dark skin person for immigration check when a law is broken i.e. running a red light, speeding etc… Dont be silly of course not.

They are only going to investigate people who have already broke the law and no its not to the point of hassament I bet you it wont even be noticeable Besides if your here legally you have nothing to worry about.

Nope you went to a check point and got checked, same for me. However if you’re white and go to a grocery store in a grey truck no check, Again no check and thats because the story is a story to show racial profiling for and race has its place in the story to make a point and you missed the point. AGAIN the point of the story is to show at times racial profiling is necessary even if it turns out to be nothing at all.

Yes they sneak accross the border Definition of sneak is Acting in a stealthy, furtive way.

**You define sneak that is your term, by the way it is not illegal to sneak. ** Really??They build tunnels,jump fences, and cross rivers trying to “sneak” accross the border.

Ill make a deal with you call the border patrol 1-800-BE-ALERT and ask them if its ok to “sneak” accross the border of Mexico to enter the USA and if they say sneaking is not a crime then I will close this post and apologise I bet they will understand my definition of “sneak” They wont have any problem understand that question.

The triple threat of drug smuggling, illegal aliens, violent gangs, and the concomitant rise in violence is no more evident than in the state of Texas.

Along the U.S. border with Mexico there are 43 Ports of Entry. Of these 43 entry points, 18 are in Texas.

Nearly all of these Ports of Entry are connected to major highway systems in Texas. The illegal alien smugglers, drug smugglers and criminal gangs use these major highways to then spread into America.

While we have all heard of the “Mafia” and have watched “The Sopranos”, the fact is that these Hispanic gangs are the **most violent organized criminals ever seen in the United States. ** Doesnt say Inuk gangs or Canadian gangs.

With all this you still can say Illegal immigrants are decent people? Well apperantly not all of them

You still feel Illegal immigration is a victimless crime?
USBORDERPATROL.COM

So you wouldnt like it if a few people broke into your home while you were out and just decided to live there? Even with the same exscuse you gave? They are just looking for a better home.

Neither would I. What do you think Illegals Aliens have done? Its the samething only they are not living inside your house.But they have invavded your country. And you think thats OK as long as you dont have to deal with it on a personal level it makes alright. Is that it?

Stop racial profiling and border control efforts and see what happens. You wouldnt even like it.

 

[kimmielittle]

Nope, not a chance. those inferences came from your brain, I contributed nothing, nothing at all. btw they are false inferences (if that matters to you) Nothing in the post infers that Yes, Most simply they are fulfilling God’s Law also known as Divine Law.

It was not them nor God who drew imaginary lines and then labeled them as criminals when they went to work

Whether you like it or not…USA is a sovereign Country… recognized as such by other governments. The lines may not be visible to you BUT they are recognized as sovereign…AND it’s Laws as sovereign within those borders.

Again,by your standards…I need not recognize your property lines when I break into your home…because you have what I do not have or you have what I want.

You really need to use some better argument.
Prove there are no state or Federal borders recognized within the USA not honored. The Immigrants that leave their home country also honor borders…Their Own…and Ours…otherwise they wouldn’t know where they came from and where they now are.

Wow, when black broke the laws like voting, eating in white restaurants, drinking from white only fountains, or riding in the front of the bus you support their illegal activities? Yet when some people go to work you call then sinners!

Jim Crow laws existed against all blacks …whether the law was broken or not…that is why your credibility with me is slipping when you attempt to spin the two.

Yet when some people go to work you call then sinners!

Aren’t we all?
Their sin by going to work as an Illegal is the lie…or theft of Social Security numbers and or documents…YES In Catholic Teaching…that is a sin.

You did get one thing right lies by omission are sins, I think you are pointing at the wrong people though those who are going to work are not lying by omission, those who stain them with insults and accuse them of theft maybe who you should look at.

You need to find some logic or reason…Employment in the USA requires a SOCIAL SECURITY Number…Now it’s required to have the card, I believe since HSA…Illegal Immigrants can not get one or give a number without either lieing or stealing one directly or indirectly.

To try to cover over these Illegal activities does much harm, IMHO to Catholic Teachings. You can not change a zebra into a horse by painting his stripes…he remains a zebra…and sin remains sin…lies remain lies…theft remains theft…

 

[Redratfish]

Do you think it could be hypocritical to talk about illegal immigrants ‘stealing’ in terms of Mexicans and the USA, especially as the very foundation of the USA could be argued to be based upon theft from the Native Americans?

Quite simply, the U.S. took it by force. God did the same thing when he allowed Israel to the promise land in the old testament, or am I mistaken?

Also:

“The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people,
it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government
– lest it come to dominate our lives and interests.”

Someone quoted this earlier, I want to point out that the government is not the one stopping illegal immigration, the people are. Government should enforce the border laws so that the individuals don’t have to. (One of the 4-5 things the government SHOULD do.)

Redratfish;6701690:

Is it a sin? No. As long as it is the ONLY way to support your family. However, do not be tricked by anyone saying that as a Catholic you must agree with illegal immigration, and help illegals. You don’t.

THe US currently has overly restrictive immigration laws. We can see this because there are far more jobs available than there are workers to fill them, and yet immigration quotas are not increased.

quote from bluegoat

Most people have no idea that when an illegal has been caught living here they are jailed
await a trial date and in some cases given a bail option.

Its treated just like any other crime.

Which is strange considering that illegals are not citizens, and therefore are not given the same rights, guaranteed under the Constitution.

 

[kimmielittle]

Here is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say: Instead of just posting pieces of this - here it is in whole.

2241 The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him.
Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate **subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. **Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens.

jimmyakin.org/2006/03/immigration_cat.html

 

[Texas_Roofer]

And I never made an acertion that you did.I was responding to YOUR assumption white people do not get checked for immigration status. I gave you a personal account of what Ive been through as a white skin person. Remember reading on about Terminal D and so on? Its a rebutle tou your white people dont get checked for immigrataion status Yes they do.

False you are spinning away from an innocent white guy in a grey truck who was buying groceries, he did not get checked, because he was white. All people going through a check point are checked by definition. Not all people going to buy groceries are checked.

Your wrong there to laws reads if an arrest is made or a violation of the laws is commited Then they have the right to check (Law enforcement city and state) Its under probable cause. Just like when cops stop a car for speeding broekn tail lights etc… and check for drugs (and they usually find some) while there at it they also run your tags. Its their job
to check for any possible illiegal activities.
Are they going to have check points and harras dark skin people the answer is NO.
Will they be checking every single dark skin person for immigration check when a law is broken i.e. running a red light, speeding etc… Dont be silly of course not.
**They are only going to investigate people who have already broke the law **and no its not to the point of hassament I bet you it wont even be noticeable Besides if your here legally you have nothing to worry about.

the bold statements are false. I guess you felt no need to read the law? Just as with the white guy in the grey truck he could be checked the law allows him to be checked but again he was white so why check? Let me get you a piece of the standard *“where reasonable suspicion exists” (1) * Arizona does not define reasonable suspicion nor require the cop to record it, so just as in the case with the white guy buying groceries in a grey truck he could be checked or the cop could choose not to check him because he is white. That is the problem.

Again no check and thats because the story is a story to show racial profiling for and race has its place in the story to make a point and you missed the point. AGAIN the point of the story is to show at times racial profiling is necessary even if it turns out to be nothing at all.

No the story is about race his race brought privilege

Yes they sneak accross the border Definition of sneak is Acting in a stealthy, furtive way.
Really??They build tunnels,jump fences, and cross rivers trying to “sneak” accross the border…

Do we only arrest those who “build tunnels,jump fences, and cross rivers”? or are you trying to explain why some walk across the border with no checks, no arrests, no fear, and do it in front of the cops?

Ill make a deal with you call the border patrol 1-800-BE-ALERT and ask them if its ok to “sneak” accross the border of Mexico to enter the USA and if they say sneaking is not a crime then I will close this post and apologise I bet they will understand my definition of “sneak” They wont have any problem understand that question.

How about the reverse, you call and ask why many people cross the border everyday with no concerns in front of cops as in the library case are threated differently - Haskell Free Library and Opera House - I would love to see the federal law which treats one group or location different from the other group or location

The triple threat of drug smuggling, illegal aliens, violent gangs, and the concomitant rise in violence is no more evident than in the state of Texas.

these were present before during and after immigration, here is what you refuse to accept, in place like the Haskell Free Library and Opera House they will increase these problem if they close the border, if they leave the border open they do not have the problem. It is true, smuggling has always been a problem on the canadian border however since the border is open the smuggling is minor. If you close the border the smuggling will become major.

cont

 

[Texas_Roofer]

cont

Along the U.S. border with Mexico there are 43 Ports of Entry. Of these 43 entry points, 18 are in Texas.

Nearly all of these Ports of Entry are connected to major highway systems in Texas. The illegal alien smugglers, drug smugglers and criminal gangs use these major highways to then spread into America.

While we have all heard of the “Mafia” and have watched “The Sopranos”, the fact is that these Hispanic gangs are the **most violent organized criminals ever seen in the United States. ** Doesnt say Inuk gangs or Canadian gangs.

With all this you still can say Illegal immigrants are decent people? Well apperantly not all of them

the key word is “say” people say it, every city has this problem and practically none of it is from illegal dark skin border people, most of it is from home grown locals, Chicago, New York, Philly all have gang, crime, drug problems only disordered thought allow one to assign it to someone in Arizona

You still feel Illegal immigration is a victimless crime?
USBORDERPATROL.COM

So you wouldnt like it if a few people broke into your home while you were out and just decided to live there? Even with the same exscuse you gave? They are just looking for a better home.

Neither would I. What do you think Illegals Aliens have done? Its the samething only they are not living inside your house.But they have invavded your country. And you think thats OK as long as you dont have to deal with it on a personal level it makes alright. Is that it?

Stop racial profiling and border control efforts and see what happens. You wouldnt even like it.

I would love to stop racial profiling. The border patrol has legitimate duties, let them do their job. Racial profiling people driving is immoral. Stealing, actual stealing not accused stealing is also immoral. If a man steals my house he must answer to god and maybe governments, if a man sits under a bush with nothing and you persecute him for stealing when he has not stolen you must answer to god.

(1) keytlaw.com/blog/2010/04/anti-illegal-immigration-law-part-1/

 

[russell007]

False you are spinning away from an innocent white guy in a grey truck who was buying groceries, he did not get checked, because he was white. All people going through a check point are checked by definition. Not all people going to buy groceries are checked.

Because it’s not a story about Checking for illegal immigrants Its about racial profiling. Let me explain…Yes we are talking about the issues of illegal Immigration and the fear of Hispanics being harrassed HOWEVER this story is just about racial profiling i.e racial profiling It was not even about immigration or any laws that might pertain to immigration.
Its a point being made for profiling thats it forget about checking for illegals just for one moment and take it at face value. Dont read anything else into. Because its not about immigrants.

The point of the story shows even though the man was innocent the police still have right stop and check it out due to the possibility he was the bank robber. Because of the profile match. White man/grey truck The man could have been African American Asian whatever anyone except besides Hispanic to show racial profiling outside of being Hispanic with the intentions on catching a criminal…UGH get it now? I dont know how else I can explain this
Its nerve racking and Im not going to comment on this one again

the bold statements are false. I guess you felt no need to read the law? Just as with the white guy in the grey truck he could be checked the law allows him to be checked but again he was white so why check? Let me get you a piece of the standard “where reasonable suspicion exists” (1) Arizona does not define reasonable suspicion nor require the cop to record it, so just as in the case with the white guy buying groceries in a grey truck he could be checked or the cop could choose not to check him because he is white. That is the problem.

I have read about the laws in Arizona its all over the web/television/newspaper here and other parts of the world.

(1)Arizona does not define reasonable suspicion That’s because it could be several hundred scenarios. Its left up to a trained police officer they are trained to look for unlawful acts. **Whats wrong you dont trust our law enforcement officials?**You act like its going to be chaos Hispanics being pulled over and checked every chance the cops get the chance. Its not even feasible. Again if you’re here legally what are you worried about? They are going to ask for your ID no matter what race you are. If your illegal they will arrest you after all your breaking the law

Do we only arrest those who “build tunnels, jump fences, and cross rivers”? or are you trying to explain why some walk across the border with no checks, no arrests, no fear, and do it in front of the cops?

We have been talking about illegal immigrants right? So it would be safe to assume the tunnels,jumping fences and crossing rivers would be about crossing the Mex/USA border. I don’t know of any Canadians Jumping fences tunneling or crossing the Niagra falls to sneak in our country. So yeah in this case your very safe to assume we are talking about the Mexican side.

We need to arrest anyone here in the states who has comited the crime of illegal immigration no matter how they got here. Just like their country does. But you dont understand the irony in that do you?

How about the reverse, you call and ask why many people cross the border everyday with no concerns in front of cops as in the library case are threated differently - Haskell Free Library and Opera House - I would love to see the federal law which treats one group or location different from the other group or location

The reason I asked you to call is because of your statement “sneaking” is not illegal. You asked me to give you the definition of sneaking and I looked it up and gave it to you. I also gave you examples of sneaking i.e. Through tunnels, Jumping fences through the rivers. Whats so difficult to understand about that? I did what you asked now its your turn Call border patrol and ask them if sneaking across the border is illegal. Atleast run it in a search engine “Is sneaking across the Mexican/US border illegal?

these were present before during and after immigration, here is what you refuse to accept, in place like the Haskell Free Library and Opera House they will increase these problem if they close the border, if they leave the border open they do not have the problem. It is true, smuggling has always been a problem on the canadian border however since the border is open the smuggling is minor. If you close the border the smuggling will become major.

Does it matter when they were presented? The point is…Illegals are coming over in gangs and you want to open the border? One of the silliest things I ever heard. Its not that the border is less maintained n the Canadian side it’s the quality of people. How many gangs can you name from Canada? How many beheadings from drug lords have you heard about coming from Canada? Most of that is from Mexico,Saudi Arabia and Iraq. And that’s a fact! Easy to prove just put “beheadings” in YOUR OWN search engine Google/Yahoo what ever you choose see If Mexico pops up in the first 5-7 make sure you use plural

I dont know about you but I dont want them bringing drug lords here and start beheading on this side of the border. Again thats why we have immigration laws FOR OUR SAFETY!

 

[russell007]

cont
the key word is “say” people say it, every city has this problem and practically none of it is from illegal dark skin border people, most of it is from home grown locals, Chicago, New York, Philly all have gang, crime, drug problems only disordered thought allow one to assign it to someone in Arizona I would love to stop racial profiling. The border patrol has legitimate duties, let them do their job. Racial profiling people driving is immoral. Stealing, actual stealing not accused stealing is also immoral. If a man steals my house he must answer to god and maybe governments, if a man sits under a bush with nothing and you persecute him for stealing when he has not stolen you must answer to god.

(1) keytlaw.com/blog/2010/04/anti-illegal-immigration-law-part-1/

**the key word is “say” people say it, every city has this problem and practically none of it is from illegal dark skin border people, most of it is from home grown locals, Chicago, New York, Philly all have gang, crime, drug problems **

You are right about that there are gangs and drug issues already here. Does it make sense to add more gangs? These gangs from central and south America arent like ours they are alot more violent According to the article I posted from borderpatrol.com

There are a certain group of “people” not any or all people and Im going to call it like it is. Because is the truth.

Racial profiling people driving is immoral Really sure you wanna go there?

What if they would had “racialy profiled” the 911 terrorists before they got on the planes?

Think long and hard on that one!

The immigration laws are not there because our nation is prejudice against Hispanics They are working on an illegal immigration issue that causing fnancial issues for our country and voilate crimes being commited.

Guess Ill never see you at a Texas Tea Party

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Because it’s not a story about Checking for illegal immigrants Its about racial profiling. Let me explain…Yes we are talking about the issues of illegal Immigration and the fear of Hispanics being harrassed HOWEVER this story is just about racial profiling i.e racial profiling It was not even about immigration or any laws that might pertain to immigration.
Its a point being made for profiling thats it forget about checking for illegals just for one moment and take it at face value. Dont read anything else into. Because its not about immigrants.

The point of the story shows even though the man was innocent the police still have right stop and check it out due to the possibility he was the bank robber. Because of the profile match. White man/grey truck The man could have been African American Asian whatever anyone except besides Hispanic to show racial profiling outside of being Hispanic with the intentions on catching a criminal…UGH get it now? I dont know how else I can explain this
Its nerve racking and Im not going to comment on this one again

The law always that man to be checked for immigration that is the facts, so if the cop looks at his skin and then decides white means no immigration check, and reddish means immigration check that is both legal by state law and illegal by constitutional (violation of civil rights). So it boils down asking the cop to do one think and then lie about it to the Federal Government.

I have read about the laws in Arizona its all over the web/television/newspaper here and other parts of the world.

(1)Arizona does not define reasonable suspicion That’s because it could be several hundred scenarios. Its left up to a trained police officer they are trained to look for unlawful acts. **Whats wrong you dont trust our law enforcement officials?**You act like its going to be chaos Hispanics being pulled over and checked every chance the cops get the chance. Its not even feasible. Again if you’re here legally what are you worried about? They are going to ask for your ID no matter what race you are. If your illegal they will arrest you after all your breaking the law

Wrong, simple wrong, cops are not allowed to apply the law with bias, nor the final say in what constitutes “probably cause” courts have reviewed these cases on a daily bases and decisions have gone both ways. That is exactly why road blocks were stopped, there was no probably cause for the search, regardless of the police’s opinion.

We have been talking about illegal immigrants right? So it would be safe to assume the tunnels,jumping fences and crossing rivers would be about crossing the Mex/USA border. I don’t know of any Canadians Jumping fences tunneling or crossing the Niagra falls to sneak in our country. So yeah in this case your very safe to assume we are talking about the Mexican side.

We need to arrest anyone here in the states who has comited the crime of illegal immigration no matter how they got here. Just like their country does. But you don’t understand the irony in that do you?

But the fact is we don’t and NEVER HAVE. Since Canadians can simply walk across the line in bright daylight in front of cops (see practically no border patrol) why should the dig a tunnel or jump a fence? Do you know how it is handled there? A sign is posted here and there which says if crossing the border you are required to check in. So which laws allow that but require something different in Arizona?

The reason I asked you to call is because of your statement “sneaking” is not illegal. You asked me to give you the definition of sneaking and I looked it up and gave it to you. I also gave you examples of sneaking i.e. Through tunnels, Jumping fences through the rivers. Whats so difficult to understand about that? I did what you asked now its your turn Call border patrol and ask them if sneaking across the border is illegal. Atleast run it in a search engine “Is sneaking across the Mexican/US border illegal?

sneaking is not illegal and I need no border patrol to decide. If we opened the border as in Canada and used the manpower on crime we would have a safer society with less crime.

these were present before during and after immigration, here is what you refuse to accept, in place like the Haskell Free Library and Opera House they will increase these problem if they close the border, if they leave the border open they do not have the problem. It is true, smuggling has always been a problem on the canadian border however since the border is open the smuggling is minor. If you close the border the smuggling will become major.

Does it matter when they were presented? The point is…Illegals are coming over in gangs and you want to open the border? One of the silliest things I ever heard. Its not that the border is less maintained n the Canadian side it’s the quality of people. How many gangs can you name from Canada? How many beheadings from drug lords have you heard about coming from Canada? Most of that is from Mexico,**Saudi Arabia **and Iraq. And that’s a fact! Easy to prove just put “beheadings” in YOUR OWN search engine Google/Yahoo what ever you choose see If Mexico pops up in the first 5-7 make sure you use plural

I dont know about you but I dont want them bringing drug lords here and start beheading on this side of the border. Again thats why we have immigration laws FOR OUR SAFETY!

I can name the same number of gangs, and drug lords from Canada as from Mexico. This premise is silly because the Saudi Arabians followed your plan. They arrived legally and crossed the Canadian border. So how did that safety excuse work out for you?

 

[Texas_Roofer]

**the key word is “say” people say it, every city has this problem and practically none of it is from illegal dark skin border people, most of it is from home grown locals, Chicago, New York, Philly all have gang, crime, drug problems **

You are right about that there are gangs and drug issues already here. Does it make sense to add more gangs? These gangs from central and south America arent like ours they are alot more violent According to the article I posted from borderpatrol.com

There are a certain group of “people” not any or all people and Im going to call it like it is. Because is the truth.

How do you know Gangs cross from Mexico, or know Gangs do not cross the Canadain border? The irony is your plan funds gangs, yes by blocking honest people from an honest life you give the gangs power to reinstall the honest person, and to prey upon the honest man who being denied his rights by cops.

Racial profiling people driving is immoral Really sure you wanna go there?

What if they would had “racialy profiled” the 911 terrorists before they got on the planes?

Think long and hard on that one!

The immigration laws are not there because our nation is prejudice against Hispanics They are working on an illegal immigration issue that causing fnancial issues for our country and voilate crimes being commited.

Guess Ill never see you at a Texas Tea Party The 9/11 terrorists used the legal system you support. Because they used the Canadian border they had minimum issues. They are the gang you say does not exist, in fact you put them in the higher quality of people. Do you really think terrorists are so dumb to not enter through Canada?

 

[Texas_Roofer]

Whether you like it or not…USA is a sovereign Country… recognized as such by other governments. The lines may not be visible to you BUT they are recognized as sovereign…AND it’s Laws as sovereign within those borders.

Sovereign in the terms of mankind is irrelevant to the issue at hand, sovereign means having power no just or unjust use of power is required. Of course if one is catholic or religious then God has ultimate power so no man is sovereign by religious context.

Again,by your standards…I need not recognize your property lines when I break into your home…because you have what I do not have or you have what I want.

It is up to you what you chose to recognize, however if you take another possessions you may have issues, can you specify what these immigrants take from you?

You really need to use some better argument.
Prove there are no state or Federal borders recognized within the USA not honored. The Immigrants that leave their home country also honor borders…Their Own…and Ours…otherwise they wouldn’t know where they came from and where they now are.

? ? recognized? In the US, people cross the borders of cities, counties, and states, with no “legal” restriction, and thus the economy prospers. In Canada many cross the US border both directions with no practical “legal” restriction. That is why there are minimum problems between, cities, counties, states, and Canada. The same could be true for Mexico

Jim Crow laws existed against all blacks …whether the law was broken or not…that is why your credibility with me is slipping when you attempt to spin the two.

Wow ! you may have some real issues

Aren’t we all?
Their sin by going to work as an Illegal is the lie…or theft of Social Security numbers and or documents…YES In Catholic Teaching…that is a sin.

You’re not condemning those who stole identities, or forged documents, you’re condemning large undefined blocks of people with no just cause and that is against catholic teaching.

You need to find some logic or reason…Employment in the USA requires a SOCIAL SECURITY Number…Now it’s required to have the card, I believe since HSA…Illegal Immigrants can not get one or give a number without either lieing or stealing one directly or indirectly.

Could you document that? It does not appear to be true.

To try to cover over these Illegal activities does much harm, IMHO to Catholic Teachings. You can not change a zebra into a horse by painting his stripes…he remains a zebra…and sin remains sin…lies remain lies…theft remains theft…

I have given you opportunity to understand catholic teaching on this issue, the teaching is simple. Part of catholic teaching is a man is to work, support himself, and his family. No government is to work in opposition to that. Should a government or another condition create a hardship or inability to prevent his work duty he should immigrant and no government is to oppose that either. So whether one can immigrate under divine law is based on one’s opportunities.

 

[russell007]

How do you know Gangs cross from Mexico, or know Gangs do not cross the Canadain border? The irony is your plan funds gangs, yes by blocking honest people from an honest life you give the gangs power to reinstall the honest person, and to prey upon the honest man who being denied his rights by cops.

Racial profiling people driving is immoral Really sure you wanna go there?

What if they would had “racialy profiled” the 911 terrorists before they got on the planes?

Think long and hard on that one!

The immigration laws are not there because our nation is prejudice against Hispanics They are working on an illegal immigration issue that causing fnancial issues for our country and voilate crimes being commited.

Guess Ill never see you at a Texas Tea Party The 9/11 terrorists used the legal system you support. Because they used the Canadian border they had minimum issues. They are the gang you say does not exist, in fact you put them in the higher quality of people. Do you really think terrorists are so dumb to not enter through Canada?

How do you know Gangs cross from Mexico, or know Gangs do not cross the Canadain border?

Again…Your going tn circles here. These are lengthy post between you and I and its a real pain to repeat myself…Here are the stats once again

The triple threat of drug smuggling, illegal aliens, violent gangs, and the concomitant rise in violence is no more evident than in the state of Texas.

Along the U.S. border with Mexico there are 43 Ports of Entry. Of these 43 entry points, 18 are in Texas.

Nearly all of these Ports of Entry are connected to major highway systems in Texas. The illegal alien smugglers, drug smugglers and criminal gangs use these major highways to then spread into America.

While we have all heard of the “Mafia” and have watched “The Sopranos”, the fact is that these **Hispanic gangs are the most violent organized criminals ever seen in the United States. **

This is how I know!!! Borderpatrol.com If anyone knows whats going on with illegal aliens it would be them.
**
The irony is your plan funds gangs, yes by blocking honest people from an honest life you give the gangs power to reinstall the honest person, **

Wait a minute mister you just shot yourself in the foot.

First of all these so called people YOU call “Honest person” are not honest at all They come over illegaly Thats not being “HONEST” Secondly from our previous post story
I gave you an example of people breaking into your house,trying to live there with out your permission and you YOURSELF on that level of illegal intrution didnt agree it was “OK”

Im calling this over Your not debating logically nor retaining the debate with the previous information at all Im having to repeat myself over and over and I see Im getting no where its like trying to discuss politics with a 7 year old.You dont listen to reason Even when the facts are given to you You either bypass the stats given to you or state there are no records You cant have a logical intilectual debate (Like I was hoping we could have) if the other party will not agree on statistics I gave you goverment stats (from border control.com) and you refuse to believe them Which is rediculas. Im not going to continue to waste my time If ever single time I provide you with the “ecvidence” you refute it whats the point of continueing our conversation? If you have an issue with our UNITEDSTATES GOVERMENTAL LAWS And you think the borderpatrol data is not true

I would say you wouldnt know the truth if it fell out of the sky and bopped you on the knoggin.
Right or wrong your going to believe what you want to believe and noone in Heaven or earth is going to persuede you otherwise. I can see you are stuburn as the day is long and I bet thats not the first time youve heard that.

God Bless

 

[kimmielittle]

Sovereign in the terms of mankind is irrelevant to the issue at hand, sovereign means having power no just or unjust use of power is required. Of course if one is catholic or religious then God has ultimate power so no man is sovereign by religious context.

If one is Catholic or religious…they don’t contort Catholic Teachings to condone **Illegal ** activities. Jesus, Himself, placed Himself , under Roman Rule.

It is up to you what you chose to recognize, however if you take another possessions you may have issues, can you specify what these immigrants take from you? ? ?

We are talking ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Please. quit trying to mix LEGAL IMMIGRANTS with ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. The very first thing Illegal immigrants take from me, and every other law abiding citizen, is respect for our laws

In the US, people cross the borders of cities, counties, and states, with no “legal” restriction, and thus the economy prospers.

Each city, county, state has it’s own laws and requires you to abide by them. Break these laws and you are Illegal.

Wow ! you may have some real issues

ABSOLUTELY I have a big problem with those who contort Catholic Teachings to suit their needs / arguments promoting Illegal activities. You see Truth does not change.

Jim Crow laws were racist against a race of innocent people. Legal Naturalization laws apply to ALL races…ALL classes. ** Illegal Immigrants ** chose to disregard these laws…No matter of race or class. It is their illegal actions which make them illegal.

You’re not condemning those who stole identities, or forged documents, you’re condemning large undefined blocks of people with no just cause and that is against catholic teaching.

If condemning Illegal immigration activities is not just or amoral…offer your evidence . This thread is about Illegal Immigrants…no other group.

Could you document that? It does not appear to be true.

Sure

Work eligibility

   To apply for a Social Security number to work in the United States, you must show us current immigration documents with work authorization. Immigration documents proving work authorization include Form I-94 (showing a class of admission with DHS work authorization), Form I-766, I-688B or I-551.

I have given you opportunity to understand catholic teaching on this issue,

You have provided a contorted view of Catholic Teaching.

Catholic Teaching

Here is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church has to say: Instead of just posting pieces of this - here it is in whole. Quote:
2241 The more prosperous nations are obliged, to the extent they are able, to welcome the foreigner in search of the security and the means of livelihood which he cannot find in his country of origin. Public authorities should see to it that the natural right is respected that places a guest under the protection of those who receive him.
Political authorities, for the sake of the common good for which they are responsible, may make the exercise of the right to immigrate **subject to various juridical conditions, especially with regard to the immigrants’ duties toward their country of adoption. **Immigrants are obliged to respect with gratitude the material and spiritual heritage of the country that receives them, to obey its laws and to assist in carrying civic burdens.
jimmyakin.org/2006/03/immigration_cat.html

Part of catholic teaching is a man is to work, support himself, and his family. No government is to work in opposition to that. Should a government or another condition create a hardship or inability to prevent his work duty he should immigrant and no government is to oppose that either. So whether one can immigrate under divine law is based on one’s opportunities.

He should Legally Immigrate…Please quit trying to mix the two…WE are talking of Illegal - immigrants not Legal Immigrants.

If you wish to take the holier than thou…stance with me…O’kay but don’t try to debate the goodness of ILLEGAL Activity

 

[kimmielittle]

U.S. law requires companies to employ only individuals who may legally work in the United States – either U.S. citizens, or foreign citizens who have the necessary authorization. This diverse workforce contributes greatly to the vibrancy and strength of our economy, but that same strength also attracts unauthorized employment.

uscis.gov/portal/site/uscis/menuitem.eb1d4c2a3e5b9ac89243c6a7543f6d1a/?vgnextoid=75bce2e261405110VgnVCM1000004718190aRCRD&vgnextchannel=75bce2e261405110VgnVCM1000004718190aRCRD

Do I Need a Social Security Number?

http://www.foreignborn.com/images/b-arrow.gif​

Social Security Number

http://www.foreignborn.com/images/b-arrow.gif​

IRS Individual Taxpayer Identification Number (ITIN)

http://www.foreignborn.com/images/b-arrow.gif​

What Can I Do Without A Social Security Number?
Social Security Number
If you are a lawfully admitted alien with permission to work in the U.S. from the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services (USCIS), you need a Social Security number.

 

[kimmielittle]

1. • [**Non-citizens who have work authorization from DHS ** (http://www.whitman.edu/content/immigration/ssn) Only non-citizens who have permission to work from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) can apply for a Social Security number.
     Following documents are required to apply for an SSN:
   • Completed Form SS-5 (Application For A Social Security Card)
   • Documents to prove your Immigration status & Work Eligibility: The I-94 (Arrival/Departure Record) issued to you when you arrived in the United States will be needed to prove your immigration status.
   • If you are an F-1 or M-1 student, you will be required to show Form I-20 (Certificate of Eligibility for Nonimmigrant Student Status). If you are a J-1 or J-2 exchange visitor, you will be required to show your Form DS-2019 (Certificate of Eligibility for Exchange Visitor Status).
   An F-1 student authorized to work in curricular practical training, must provide the Form I-20 with the employment page (page 3) completed and signed by a designated school official. Evidence of the employment, such as a recent pay slip or a letter from your employer will also be necessary. Your supervisor must sign and date the letter and it must describe the following:
   • Your job;
   • Your employment start date;
   • The number of hours you are, or will be, working;
   • Your supervisor’s name and telephone number.

1. 
   

                   An F-1 or M-1 student authorized to work off campus, must provide the SSA with the Employment Authorization Document received from DHS. A J-1 student will be required to provide a letter from his/her sponsor. The letter should be on sponsor letterhead with an original signature that authorizes the employment.

   • Proof of age: Your birth certificate or passport may be submitted to prove your age.
   • Proof of your identity: A current DHS document will be required by the Social Security Office. Acceptable documents include:
   • Form I-551 (includes machine-readable immigrant visa with your unexpired foreign passport)
   • I-94 with your unexpired foreign passport
   • Work permit card from the Department of Homeland Security (I-766 or I-688B).

   Once you have collected all the required documents, take your completed application and documents to your nearest local Social Security office. Persons of age 12 or older applying for an original Social Security number card must appear for an interview at a Social Security office. All documents must be either originals or copies certified by the issuing agency. Photocopies or notarized copies of documents are not accepted.

   Everyone who works needs a Social Security number (SSN). As an employer, you are required to get each worker’s name and SSN and to enter them on the employee’s Form W-2. Use the Social Security Number Verification Service (SSNVS), an online service that allows registered employers and third-party submitters to verify employee names and SSNs against Social Security’s records for wage reporting purposes only. You can use SSNVS without leaving your office or having your employees take time off from work to go to a Social Security office. Another option is for employees to show you their Social Security card.
   If your employee applied for an SSN but does not yet have it, indicate Applied For directly on the employee’s Form W-2. When the employee receives the number, file a Form W-2c, Corrected Wage and Tax Statement.

   An employee who does not have an SSN may apply for one by downloading and completing an Application For A Social Security Card (Form SS-5), by calling our toll-free number 1-800-772-1213 (TTY 1-800-325-0778), or by visiting a local Social Security office. Non-citizen workers can find more information in Social Security Numbers For Noncitizens (Publication No. 05-10096) and Foreign Workers and Social Security Numbers (Publication No. 05-10107).

   ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/cgi-bin/ssa.cfg/php/enduser/popup_adp.php?p_faqid=377&p_created=961788631