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AugustTherese
Guest
Have you had personal experiences with this? I am currently going through discernment for the priesthood and have experienced many obstacles, temptations, and confusion. Any advice would be appreciated!
Is it better for us to take spouses, or the remain celibate in our lives?
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SacredHeartBassist
Guest
Definitely better to be celibate. It mimics Jesus’ life and it’s a more personal connection to God.
Pope John Paul II , Vita Consecrata, no. 32: “As a way of showing forth the Church’s holiness, it is to be recognized that the consecrated life, which mirrors Christ’s own way of life, has an objective superiority. Precisely for this reason, it is an especially rich manifestation of Gospel values and a more complete expression of the Church’s purpose, which is the sanctification of humanity. The consecrated life proclaims and in a certain way anticipates the future age, when the fullness of the Kingdom of Heaven, already present in its first fruits and in mystery,[62] will be achieved and when the children of the resurrection will take neither wife nor husband, but will be like the angels of God (cf. Mt. 22:30)”
Pope Pius XII, Sacra Virginitas, no. 32: “This doctrine of the excellence of virginity and of celibacy and of their superiority over the married state was, as we have already said, revealed by our Divine Redeemer and by the Apostle of the Gentiles; so too, it was solemnly defined as a dogma of divine faith by the holy council of Trent, and explained in the same way by all the holy Fathers and Doctors of the Church."
Council of Trent, pg. 225: “If anyone saith that the marriage state is to be preferred before the state of virginity, let him be anathema.” […] "writing to the Corinthians, [Paul] says: I would that all men were even as myself; that is, that all embrace the virtue of continence…A life of continence is to be desired by all.”
Catechism of the Catholic Church, p. 916: “The state of the consecrated life is thus one way of experiencing a “more intimate” consecration, rooted in Baptism and dedicated totally to God. In the consecrated life, Christ’s faithful, moved by the Holy Spirit, propose to follow Christ more nearly, to give themselves to God who is loved above all and, pursuing the perfection of charity in the service of the Kingdom, to signify and proclaim in the Church the glory of the world to come.”
Saint Thomas Aquinas, ST II-II.152.4: “Virginity is more excellent than marriage, which can be seen by both faith and reason. Faith sees virginity as imitating the example of Christ and the counsel of St. Paul. Reason sees virginity as rightly ordering goods, preferring a Divine good to human goods, the good of the soul to the good of the body, and the good of the contemaplative life to that of the active life.”
I Corinthians Chp. VII: “It is a good thing for a man not to touch a woman. [v.1] Indeed, I wish that everyone were like I am [celibate]. [v.7] I should like you to be free from anxieties. An unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord; how he may please the Lord. But a married man is anxious about the things of the world; how he may please his wife, and he is divided. [v.32] Are you free of a wife? Then do not look for a wife. If you marry, however, you do not sin, nor does an unmarried woman sin if she marries; but such people will experience affliction in their earthly life, and I would like to spare you that.” [v.28] (see also Mark 12:18-27, Mtt 19:10-12, 2 Timothy Ch. 2:3)
Pope John Paul II , Vita Consecrata, no. 32: “As a way of showing forth the Church’s holiness, it is to be recognized that the consecrated life, which mirrors Christ’s own way of life, has an objective superiority. Precisely for this reason, it is an especially rich manifestation of Gospel values and a more complete expression of the Church’s purpose, which is the sanctification of humanity. The consecrated life proclaims and in a certain way anticipates the future age, when the fullness of the Kingdom of Heaven, already present in its first fruits and in mystery,[62] will be achieved and when the children of the resurrection will take neither wife nor husband, but will be like the angels of God (cf. Mt. 22:30)”
Pope Pius XII, Sacra Virginitas, no. 32: “This doctrine of the excellence of virginity and of celibacy and of their superiority over the married state was, as we have already said, revealed by our Divine Redeemer and by the Apostle of the Gentiles; so too, it was solemnly defined as a dogma of divine faith by the holy council of Trent, and explained in the same way by all the holy Fathers and Doctors of the Church."
Council of Trent, pg. 225: “If anyone saith that the marriage state is to be preferred before the state of virginity, let him be anathema.” […] "writing to the Corinthians, [Paul] says: I would that all men were even as myself; that is, that all embrace the virtue of continence…A life of continence is to be desired by all.”
Catechism of the Catholic Church, p. 916: “The state of the consecrated life is thus one way of experiencing a “more intimate” consecration, rooted in Baptism and dedicated totally to God. In the consecrated life, Christ’s faithful, moved by the Holy Spirit, propose to follow Christ more nearly, to give themselves to God who is loved above all and, pursuing the perfection of charity in the service of the Kingdom, to signify and proclaim in the Church the glory of the world to come.”
Saint Thomas Aquinas, ST II-II.152.4: “Virginity is more excellent than marriage, which can be seen by both faith and reason. Faith sees virginity as imitating the example of Christ and the counsel of St. Paul. Reason sees virginity as rightly ordering goods, preferring a Divine good to human goods, the good of the soul to the good of the body, and the good of the contemaplative life to that of the active life.”
I Corinthians Chp. VII: “It is a good thing for a man not to touch a woman. [v.1] Indeed, I wish that everyone were like I am [celibate]. [v.7] I should like you to be free from anxieties. An unmarried man is anxious about the things of the Lord; how he may please the Lord. But a married man is anxious about the things of the world; how he may please his wife, and he is divided. [v.32] Are you free of a wife? Then do not look for a wife. If you marry, however, you do not sin, nor does an unmarried woman sin if she marries; but such people will experience affliction in their earthly life, and I would like to spare you that.” [v.28] (see also Mark 12:18-27, Mtt 19:10-12, 2 Timothy Ch. 2:3)
po18guy
Well-known member
Sadly, my discernment is mostly in retrospect. I have spoken with quite a few who underwent the discernment process. I watched a young man in my parish routinely remain in the pew long after mass was over. I was aware that his relationships with the opposite sex appeared, then drifted away, while the constant discernment process continued. He is now a priest, but it was clearly not an easy process. The denial of self and the conscious decision to offer oneself as a sacrifice of love and worship to God involves total abandonment combined with total commitment.
We all wonder if we chose the vocation that God intended for us. Yet, He so values our freedom that He allows us to choose against His will . At the same time, He expects us to make the absolute best of whichever path we choose.
For this reason, it is clear why the first thing we are commanded to do before following our Lord is to deny our very selves - the most difficult task we shall ever face. Yet, through it all, we are not alone and God’s grace is sufficient.
We all wonder if we chose the vocation that God intended for us. Yet, He so values our freedom that He allows us to choose against His will . At the same time, He expects us to make the absolute best of whichever path we choose.
For this reason, it is clear why the first thing we are commanded to do before following our Lord is to deny our very selves - the most difficult task we shall ever face. Yet, through it all, we are not alone and God’s grace is sufficient.
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twf
Guest
St. John Paul II disagreed with you - see SacredHartBassist’s post right above you.
You’re right that each has its own unique blessings and crosses.
You’re right that each has its own unique blessings and crosses.
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twf
Guest
The Church disagrees with you. Celibacy is objectively superior.
Marriage is a sacrament. I am a married man. It is a blessing. But celibacy is objectively greater. Of course, many married people are subjectively holier than many celibate people
.(Quotes compliments of @SacredHeartBassist)
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Azaryahtt
Guest
Church of England converts too
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twf
Guest
Of course. The sacrament of marriage is still absolutely necessary.
Our Lady is superior to other saints… but other saints are still wonderful and necessary.
Our Lady is superior to other saints… but other saints are still wonderful and necessary
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AugustTherese
Guest
The Church disagrees with you. Celibacy is objectively superior.
Marriage is a sacrament. I am a married man. It is a blessing. But celibacy is objectively greater. Of course, many married people are subjectively holier than many celibate people
I was not referring to the sole charism of celibacy, but to that of contrasting vocations as if one was better than the other. Celibacy is not a ‘vocation’, it is a charism of a vocation. Consecrated life is superior insofar as it “allows one to surrender himself to the God he loves above all else thereby consecrating himself more intimately to God’s service and to the good the Church”. Celibacy is a higher calling and is objectively superior to conjugal relations, but to say that celibacy is ‘higher’ than the Sacrament of marriage seems to denigrate marriage.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
It’s better for us to do what God is calling us to do.
I don’t buy the whole idea that celibacy is always better than marriage, if for no other reason than the fact that priests and nuns and even those who sit in the pews have to come from human reproduction. They don’t just hatch out of a rock in the desert. Faiths that discouraged marriage and sex within marriage have died out in the past.
If Louis and Zelie Martin had followed through on their original idea of staying celibate, we would not have had St. Therese or her sister Leonie who is on the path to sainthood, and perhaps Louis and Zelie wouldn’t be saints either.
I don’t buy the whole idea that celibacy is always better than marriage, if for no other reason than the fact that priests and nuns and even those who sit in the pews have to come from human reproduction. They don’t just hatch out of a rock in the desert. Faiths that discouraged marriage and sex within marriage have died out in the past.
If Louis and Zelie Martin had followed through on their original idea of staying celibate, we would not have had St. Therese or her sister Leonie who is on the path to sainthood, and perhaps Louis and Zelie wouldn’t be saints either.
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The_Old_Maid
Guest
Celibacy is a calling.
Marriage also is a calling.
One of the best lines I’ve read was from Anthony deStefano’s A Travel Guide to Heaven. He reminds us that married believers have children and teach their children. Therefore they “have the enormous privilege to help populate Heaven!”
Celibates can do that too, but we don’t have a “captive audience” at home.
Marriage also is a calling.
One of the best lines I’ve read was from Anthony deStefano’s A Travel Guide to Heaven. He reminds us that married believers have children and teach their children. Therefore they “have the enormous privilege to help populate Heaven!”
Celibates can do that too, but we don’t have a “captive audience” at home.
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AugustTherese
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The two greatest Saints to have walked this Earth were married. They were also celibate.
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Mboo
Guest
The sacred celibacy is greater than marraige, it’s a dogma of faith.
some one who lives in marriage offers his body to his spouse, and part of his heart is also devoted to his spouse.
some one who lives on an authentic sacred celibacy offers his body and his whole heart to God, in fact he sacrifices for God the joys of human love, so in the essential act of sacred celibacy we offer more to God than in the essential act of marriage, hence its intrinsic superiority over marriage.
when it is said that it is superior to marriage, it means that it should logically be preferred to marriage when one sees the benefits that this brings in this life and in the other life.
St. Paul spoke of the benefits of celibacy in this life from the perspective of salvation. But Revelation 14. 4 tells us of the glory in heaven of those who are abstained from women. They are the only ones who will live in the greatest intimacy of God and go wherever the lamb will go.
some one who lives in marriage offers his body to his spouse, and part of his heart is also devoted to his spouse.
some one who lives on an authentic sacred celibacy offers his body and his whole heart to God, in fact he sacrifices for God the joys of human love, so in the essential act of sacred celibacy we offer more to God than in the essential act of marriage, hence its intrinsic superiority over marriage.
when it is said that it is superior to marriage, it means that it should logically be preferred to marriage when one sees the benefits that this brings in this life and in the other life.
St. Paul spoke of the benefits of celibacy in this life from the perspective of salvation. But Revelation 14. 4 tells us of the glory in heaven of those who are abstained from women. They are the only ones who will live in the greatest intimacy of God and go wherever the lamb will go.
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Mboo
Guest
We know nothing about it, perhaps God would have thanks to the sacrifices of their continence, offered to the Church a saint better than Saint Teresa, and perhaps they would have had also a greater glory in Heaven, as God himself has makes the promise to those who have sacrificed for him the joys of marriage.
One should not rely on accidental consequences of a state to relativize its importance. Otherwise we can say to be in jail is not necessarily better than being at liberty, or we could also say that health is not intrinsically better than illness, because we know this or that case. who sanctified themselve in jail or in the sickness.
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Mboo
Guest
Can you imagine all those who convert by the sacrifices of an isolated anchorites in his cave?
Authentic sacred celibacy is a sacrifice of the natural joys of marriage which one could have enjoyed, but which one has chosen to offer to God for his glory. And Jesus Himself has promised a hundredfold more to those who have given up childrens or a woman because of him. It is in heaven that they will see the multitude of children that their sacrifice has produced.
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Arkansan
Guest
The Church teaches that celibacy is, objectively speaking, superior to marriage. However, it would be very difficult to live such a life without a vocation to it, and most people don’t have such a vocation, so marriage is subjectively better for most people.
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TK421
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Mboo
Guest
Sorry but the superiority of sacred celibacy is a dogma.
To say that health is superior to the disease is not a way of denigrating the sacrament of the sick. Attention I do not compare marriage to illness, but just to say that a sacrament does not necessarily show the excellence of the state of those who need it, quite the opposite, the sacrament is given to those who are weak or who are sinners (and we are all both weak and sinful).
The sacrament of marriage gives grace to fulfill our obligations as parents and spouse, so it is only for those who have chosen to live in marriage, so as the person who gets married is in a state that has new constraints, God helps him through the sacrament of marriage so that he may sanctify himself in that state that he himself has chosen…
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TechieGuy
Guest
I’ve been celibate, I’ve been a virgin and I’ve been married and I am, without a doubt, happier being married than I was being either celibate or a virgin.
Guess that makes me anathema…
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MonteRCMS
Guest
Stay celibate and civilization will die off.
Tis_Bearself
Patron
With all due respect, I think the fact that they gave birth to a Doctor of the Church as well as becoming saints themselves is a very clear statement of how God thought about it and I do not think this was all purely “accidental circumstances”. It was PART OF GOD’S PLAN.
You have shown by your posts here and elsewhere that you are pretty much a rabid fan of celibacy and seem to have an agenda to promote it to the entire planet. When it gets to the point where you are dismissing a great saint and a Doctor of the Church as an “accidental consequence” rather than a gift from God, then you have left the bounds of any sort of rational thought on this issue.
You need to accept the fact that God did not intend the entire world to be celibate. Many great saints of the Church were not celibate. Some were married, some committed sexual sin before they became great saints, but they all ended up great saints, in Heaven. Celibacy is not the be-all and end-all of existence and the fact that you keep insisting it is, to the point of dismissing St. Therese, makes me think you are a little bit odd.
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