Is it easier for women to have a deep relationship with Christ because they're female

[beckycmarie]

Do you believe that all people have an equal crosses to bear in life? This is not something that is supported by the Church or Scripture. In fact the opposite is true.

I believe that people have different crosses in life, but I do not believe men in general have heavier crosses to bear and thus will have a greater reward in Heaven by faithfully bearing their crosses than by women doing the same.

Reproductively alone, your argument that men have the greater cross doesn’t hold water. Women suffer monthly from adolescence to middle age, not to mention all that goes with pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding, and menopause.

You still haven’t produced anything other than your own opinion to back up your claim about the crosses of men and their potential rewards in Heaven.

 

[NTOT]

I believe that people have different crosses in life, but I do not believe men in general have heavier crosses to bear and thus will have a greater reward in Heaven by faithfully bearing their crosses than by women doing the same.

Would you say that graces and crosses are about average for men and women? Does God work with averages. Can He not choose a class of people to have more or less? Can a whole primitive tribe of people in the Congo be denied the grace as a whole people to ever know about the True God? Can He choose to call millions of children from the world before they are even born? Is it more of a blessing to be called from this life not having the possibility of ever sinning and therefore gain eternal reward. Or is it more of a blessing to be born, have the potential to prove your love for God, in the face of more or less crosses and blessing dished out to you, and have the potential to earn a higher reward?

Reproductively alone, your argument that men have the greater cross doesn’t hold water. Women suffer monthly from adolescence to middle age, not to mention all that goes with pregnancy, childbirth, breastfeeding, and menopause.

I don’t buy the notion that menstruation is weakness leading women to be prone to loss of their soul through mortal sin. Great temptation to lust in men is though.

You still haven’t produced anything other than your own opinion to back up your claim about the crosses of men and their potential rewards in Heaven.

My claim that men are more likely to sin can be justified by way of pointing out crime statistics. If men are more likely to commit crime (sin), they must by reason also carry a greater burden of temptation to sin.
Do you deny that greater cross born faithfully equals greater reward?

 

[NTOT]

As a side note, I don’t believe it is prudent to worry to much about whether someone else may be getting a bigger reward. I would be more concerned about whether I will even be worthy of reward at the hour of death.

 

[beckycmarie]

Would you say that graces and crosses are about average for men and women? Does God work with averages. Can He not choose a class of people to have more or less? Can a whole primitive tribe of people in the Congo be denied the grace as a whole people to ever know about the True God?

They will never know the True God? Are you saying someone never taught about Jesus can never make it to Heaven? That is not what our church teaches.

Can He choose to call millions of children from the world before they are even born? Is it more of a blessing to be called from this life not having the possibility of ever sinning and therefore gain eternal reward. Or is it more of a blessing to be born, have the potential to prove your love for God, in the face of more or less crosses and blessing dished out to you, and have the potential to earn a higher reward?

I agree with you on this point that we merit more by proving our love.

I don’t buy the notion that menstruation is weakness leading women to be prone to loss of their soul through mortal sin. Great temptation to lust in men is though.

A cross is anything that causes suffering; it doesn’t just have to be temptation.

My claim that men are more likely to sin can be justified by way of pointing out crime statistics. If men are more likely to commit crime (sin), they must by reason also carry a greater burden of temptation to sin.
Do you deny that greater cross born faithfully equals greater reward?

Men are probably more likely to sin in ways that society would find reprehensible enough to punish with jail time, but it was a woman who sinned first. Women have weaknesses that the enemy can exploit, which is why the serpent approached Eve first when she was alone.

 

[NTOT]

They will never know the True God? Are you saying someone never taught about Jesus can never make it to Heaven? That is not what our church teaches.

Quite the opposite. They have much less to account for. How much worse for those who have blessed with the gift of the Catholic faith and freely choose to reject it?

I agree with you on this point that we merit more by proving our love.

So you do agree that God chooses in His wisdom to deal out more crosses and burdens to some and not to others and that those with more burden have more opportunity for merit?

A cross is anything that causes suffering; it doesn’t just have to be temptation.

True. Neither are all blessed with equal suffering nor temptation. Some escape life entirely before the age of reason is attained. Some are called before being born, never having the opportunity for suffering or temptation.

Men are probably more likely to sin in ways that society would find reprehensible enough to punish with jail time, but it was a woman who sinned first.

And reprehensible crimes are more likely to be mortally serious to ones soul as well.

Women have weaknesses that the enemy can exploit, which is why the serpent approached Eve first when she was alone.

I think you have a point about the fact that women are much more prone to suffer from the very deadly sin of vanity.

 

[beckycmarie]

I don’t think we really have that much of a disagreement, then NTOT. I’m just not ready to jump at the thought that men as a whole have greater crosses to bear.

I agree that God gives greater crosses to those he wants to raise to the heights, and since we are never tested beyond our strength, the weakest ones would not receive gigantic crosses.

Men may have issues with lust and great responsibility as providers and protectors, but women as well have weaknesses plus all the crosses that come with just being female.

I don’t think one gender as a whole is superior to the other as far as potential for degree of sanctity.

 

[Augustine]

If you can’t hear the chauvinism dripping out of your assertions, then there’s nothing more to say.

One thing is for sure: your name-calling is uncharitable and unhelpful.

 

[NTOT]

I don’t think we really have that much of a disagreement, then NTOT. I’m just not ready to jump at the thought that men as a whole have greater crosses to bear.

Thank you kindly. I don’t think we disagree substantially either, only minor points worthy of discussion.

I agree that God gives greater crosses to those he wants to raise to the heights, and since we are never tested beyond our strength, the weakest ones would not receive gigantic crosses.

This is a good way of looking at it.

Men may have issues with lust and great responsibility as providers and protectors, but women as well have weaknesses plus all the crosses that come with just being female.

Ultimately, I think all the crosses, blessings, sufferings, etc. that God sends works toward His ultimate goal, and benefits all mankind, male and female. As in the example of the Blessed Virgin, she was priveleged, but she became a blessing and treasure for all mankind to love and honor and seek her protection and help!

I don’t think one gender as a whole is superior to the other as far as potential for degree of sanctity.

Probably not a whole gender, but I don’t believe it is unthinkable.

Again, thanks for your thoughts!
God Bless.

 

[GemmaRose]

… I have given support for my assertions. You have only stated that I am wrong with no basis to back it up.
Either you aren’t even reading my posts, or you are out and out lying here.

I have quoted the Catechism, the Apostles Creed, and the Nicene Creed. You have quoted ABSOLUTELY NOTHING except the words of other posters. You can’t quote any authority because you have absolutely no basis for your assertions.

Further, why must you take all of this as personal attacks?
Because what you say is derogatory to women and I am a woman.

In case you have forgotten what you’ve posted, let me remind you. To paraphrase your assertions, you have stated that:

• Men have a greater cross to bear in life;
• That more is expected of men; and
• A man’s potential reward for remaining faithful is greater than what is possible for women.

Is there a ring of truth to what I am saying?
None.

 

[GemmaRose]

I think I explained that already in #60 where I said:

The Catechism entry is refuting that man is not God, nor is God made in man’s image, nor can human attributes be applied to God, since He is beyond all human attributes. It further goes on to describe the Divine nature of God which is Pure Spirit.

No, the Catechism is right. Wrong supposition to make.

Here is Catechism paragraph 370 in its entirety and the paragraph which precedes it (#369) which is the starting paragraph for the section which deals with humans beings having been created by God:

III. “Male and Female He Created Them”

Equality and difference willed by God

369 Man and woman have been created, which is to say, willed by God: on the one hand, in perfect equality as human persons; on the other, in their respective beings as man and woman. “Being man” or “being woman” is a reality which is good and willed by God: man and woman possess an inalienable dignity which comes to them immediately from God their Creator. Man and woman are both with one and the same dignity “in the image of God.” In their “being-man” and “being-woman,” they reflect the Creator’s wisdom and goodness.

370 In no way is God in man’s image. He is neither man nor woman. God is pure spirit in which there is no place for the difference between the sexes. But the respective “perfections” of man and woman reflect something of the infinite perfection of God: those of a mother and those of a father and husband.

So, while you are correct that 370 is addressing the main point that man is not God, you cannot escape that it specifically states that:

God is pure spirit in which there is no place for the difference between the sexes. But the respective “perfections” of man and woman reflect something of the infinite perfection of God: those of a mother and those of a father and husband.

Now, unless you are on a committee which is re-writing the meaning of Catechism paragraph 370, your interpretation of it, and I quote from your post #60…:

God is neither masculine nor feminine. Man is made in the image of God. Man is not God. Human traits do not describe God. If a human being can think it, it can’t be God. God is above human thought and reason and is absolute perfection. Masculine and Feminine are traits which limit man and are imperfect images of the perfection of God. God is not half man and half woman which make a complete God. Union between a man and woman is an imperfect image of the mystery of the Blessed Trinity. An eternal and perfect union of Persons.

…does not say what 370 says. Although your above explanation is not wrong, it is not quite on point.

The argument here revolves around your statement: “God is a man.” We are not debating whether man is God, nor human comprehension of God, a half and half God, the union between man and woman, or the mystery of the Trinity.

You say “God is a man.”
I say, “God is not a man, He is pure spirit.”
The Catechism says, “God is pure spirit”

You say, “Masculine and Feminine are traits which limit man and are imperfect images of the perfection of God.” While you are not incorrect in this statement…
I echo the Catechism and say: “the respective ‘perfections’ of man and woman reflect something of the infinite perfection of God: those of a mother and those of a father and husband.”

 

[GemmaRose]

Do you believe that all people have an equal crosses to bear in life? This is not something that is supported by the Church or Scripture. In fact the opposite is true.

The distribution of crosses is in no way related to gender.

When you show me a man who has ever had a baby, or even a menstrual cramp, then we can talk about which gender has more crosses to bear.

 

[GemmaRose]

Which man do say deserves a greater reward than the woman who remained absolutely and totally sinless and totally devoted to God?
My statement can be paraphrased as: the greater the cross one is blessed to endure in the life, the greater the reward one will receive IF one remains faithful in bearing that cross.
Many are given crosses to bear, not all see it as a blessing. Not all are given the same or equal crosses to bear. To whom much has been given, much will be expected.

Okay, now you’re making sense.

 

[GemmaRose]

Would you say that graces and crosses are about average for men and women? Does God work with averages. Can He not choose a class of people to have more or less? Can a whole primitive tribe of people in the Congo be denied the grace as a whole people to ever know about the True God? Can He choose to call millions of children from the world before they are even born? Is it more of a blessing to be called from this life not having the possibility of ever sinning and therefore gain eternal reward. Or is it more of a blessing to be born, have the potential to prove your love for God, in the face of more or less crosses and blessing dished out to you, and have the potential to earn a higher reward?
Your “response” above goes off on a wild tangent which in no way is responsive to beckymarie’s post which stated:

Originally Posted by beckycmarie
I believe that people have different crosses in life, but I do not believe men in general have heavier crosses to bear and thus will have a greater reward in Heaven by faithfully bearing their crosses than by women doing the same.

 

[GemmaRose]

One thing is for sure: your name-calling is uncharitable and unhelpful.

Name-calling is one thing. Speaking the truth is another.

Holding the beliefs that…

• Men have a greater cross to bear in life than women;
• More is expected of men; and
• Men’s potential reward is greater than women’s

… is, plain and simple, chauvinistic thinking.

Additionally, there is absolutely no basis for this belief in Catholic theology.

Furthermore, by extension, these beliefs lead to the conclusion that God plays favorites, that He has set up a system which expects more from men and gives them greater crosses to bear so their potential heavenly reward will be greater than a women’s… that God isn’t fair, just like human beings. If this isn’t a sacrilegious, it’s at least heretical.

By the way, bless you too.

 

[iaskquestions]

Since we are into this discussion about bearing crosses, may I ask a question? I know it’s a bit off-topic but what exactly is a cross???

 

[beckycmarie]

Since we are into this discussion about bearing crosses, may I ask a question? I know it’s a bit off-topic but what exactly is a cross???

Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. Matthew 16:24

A cross is any suffering or trial God sends or allows. Accepting them with resignation helps us to grow in holiness.

Recommended listening:

One True Faith Podcast: Pain and Suffering

 

[IrishJoe]

Yes. Also it is easier for men to have a deep relationship with Mary because they’re male.

I disagree. I cannot identify with her at all.

 

[iaskquestions]

Also, Mary is not God. So relationship with Mary is not as important as relationship with Christ.

 

[iaskquestions]

When you show me a man who has ever had a baby, or even a menstrual cramp, then we can talk about which gender has more crosses to bear.

I don’t think giving birth to a baby or a menstrual cramp can be referred to as a cross. Even atheists give birth to babies and have menstrual cramps! As beckcymarie has pointed out, a cross is really something that requires us to deny ourselves for the sake of Christ.

 

[Augustine]

I don’t think … a menstrual cramp can be referred to as a cross.

It is a cross to husbands…