Is it easier for women to have a deep relationship with Christ because they're female

[beckycmarie]

I don’t think giving birth to a baby or a menstrual cramp can be referred to as a cross. Even atheists give birth to babies and have menstrual cramps! As beckcymarie has pointed out, a cross is really something that requires us to deny ourselves for the sake of Christ.

Any suffering is a cross to bear. If I stub my toe it is a small cross that I offer up for the good of souls. Even the tiniest sufferings are valuable, because if you don’t get into the habit of offering up the little ones along the way, you’re going to have a hard time managing when you receive a big cross.

And yes, atheists suffer but without merit. There is merit when we unite our sufferings to Christ.

 

[iaskquestions]

Any suffering is a cross to bear. If I stub my toe it is a small cross that I offer up for the good of souls. Even the tiniest sufferings are valuable, because if you don’t get into the habit of offering up the little ones along the way, you’re going to have a hard time managing when you receive a big cross.

And yes, atheists suffer but without merit. There is merit when we unite our sufferings to Christ.

You yourself showed me Matthew 16:24 and now you’re saying that any suffering is a cross? I won’t agree. When you are denying yourself for the sake of Christ, you know it is a cross.

 

[iaskquestions]

Any suffering is a cross to bear.

I really don’t think so.

“For it is better to suffer for doing right, if that should be God’s will, than for doing wrong.” (1 Peter 3:17)

 

[agapewolf]

GemmaRose, with the exception of saying that Men have greater rewards, I don’t think the idea that men have greater crosses to bear is cheuvanistic…

There’s 2 reasons why:

God calls men to be priests. THis is such a huge burden and hard job that there is even another Sacrament to give them grace for it. I dont view this is a power thing, but more as a servant thing. Instead of a triangle, its actually an inverted triangle…with the pope being at the bottom, then cardinals and bishops, then priests, then the rest of the church…meaning that they are in service to the church.

The other reason I think this is Eph 5, and theology of the body. In eph 5, women are called to be under the mission of their husbands, and the mission of the husbands are to love them as Christ loved the church… which means to die for their wives. So the wives job is to let their husbands love them.
In reading theology of the body, one can see all over the place where God has called the man to be the giver, and the woman to be the receiver. (Not just in the sexual act).

So you see, the idea isn’t cheavenistic… the fact that men are called to harder jobs and more crosses, its actually the reverse of cheavenism. The way God designed it is so that the beauty and the dignity of women are held up to a high place.

Now, as far as rewards, well, I don’t know about that.

 

[beckycmarie]

You yourself showed me Matthew 16:24 and now you’re saying that any suffering is a cross? I won’t agree. When you are denying yourself for the sake of Christ, you know it is a cross.

I think you are confusing suffering in the form of a crosses we don’t choose with sacrifice - freely choosing to give up something for love of God. There is merit in both. If you listen to that podcast on pain and suffering (see post #96), Michael Voris explains this concept really well.

To take up one’s cross also means to accept the sufferings that we didn’t choose. Otherwise, involuntary suffering has no purpose, which would be a sad loss since most of the suffering in our lives is not of our own choosing.

 

[NTOT]

Either you aren’t even reading my posts, or you are out and out lying here.

Actually the opposite is true.

I have quoted the Catechism, the Apostles Creed, and the Nicene Creed. You have quoted ABSOLUTELY NOTHING except the words of other posters.

This is an example of one of the lies. I have specifically quoted the Nicene Creed which pointed out your error. Go back and see.

Because what you say is derogatory to women and I am a woman.

If you find it derogatory, that is up to you. I am a woman as well and don’t find in derogatory in the least.

In case you have forgotten what you’ve posted, let me remind you. To paraphrase your assertions, you have stated that:

Don’t know why you need to paraphrase, but if you feel the need.

Here is Catechism paragraph 370 in its entirety and the paragraph which precedes it (#369) which is the starting paragraph for the section which deals with humans beings having been created by God:
.
.
.
So, while you are correct that 370 is addressing the main point that man is not God,

Correct

The argument here revolves around your statement: “God is a man.”

Now here is a place where paraphrasing what I said is blatantly out of place. Go back and correct it and then proceed with your argument that it is wrong.

We are not debating whether man is God,

That is what the catechism entries you referred to clarifies. Man is not God. God is not made in the image of man. God is pure spirit, etc. Why bring it up if you don’t want to discuss it?

You say “God is a man.”

Not only paraphrased, but in quotes yet. Wow!
Don’t forget that Jesus is God. Did you know that Jesus is fully God and fully Man?

You say, “Masculine and Feminine are traits which limit man and are imperfect images of the perfection of God.”

Yes.

While you are not incorrect in this statement…

I know.

I echo the Catechism and say: "the respective ‘perfections’ of man and woman reflect something of the infinite perfection of God

Did I say different. Actually I believe I said that. Go back and see. Its not hard to find.

Who the heck said anything about menstruation being a moral weakness?!? We’re talking about crosses to bear. You want to know a cross? - Being plagued by mentrual cramps (sometimes as severe as labor pains) every month from adolescence to middle age together with mood swings; having to go to the gyno, get up on the table, spread 'em, and have someone who is essentially a stranger insert things up your hoohaa; sweating and screaming through hours of labor ending with the equivalent of sh*tting out a watermelon; and let’s not forget the hot flashes of menopause. And as for temptation… women have hormones too.

Is this your cross to bear? Do you deserve heaven because of it? Next we shall see how you claim that God has blessed women with a gender based cross to bear:

The distribution of crosses is in no way related to gender.

Hold on, here comes the gender based weakness.

When you show me a man who has ever had a baby, or even a menstrual cramp, then we can talk about which gender has more crosses to bear.

I know many women who have never had a baby. I know many who have. It is a very temporal situation. I know many men with much greater burdens to bear than that. Have you made up a list of all the sufferings that women bear and therefore makes them go to heaven?

Name-calling is one thing. Speaking the truth is another.
Holding the beliefs that…
Men have a greater cross to bear in life than women;
More is expected of men; and
Men’s potential reward is greater than women’s
… is, plain and simple, chauvinistic thinking.

Do you know the definition of chauvinism?

Additionally, there is absolutely no basis for this belief in Catholic theology.

Another baseless assertion. Bet you can’t point out the incompatibility.

Furthermore, by extension, these beliefs lead to the conclusion that God plays favorites, that He has set up a system which expects more from men and gives them greater crosses to bear so their potential heavenly reward will be greater than a women’s… that God isn’t fair, just like human beings.

Be careful, you are saying that if God is pleased to bless someone with a greater cross to bear, that He is being unfair. Here is a question for you. Which of these people or groups of people is God being unfair to?
The unborn who are aborted
The man born crippled
The tribes of India
People with Muscular Dystrophy
Men
Women
Is God setting up a system which favors or disfavors these people? You should probably rethink your statement.

If this isn’t a sacrilegious, it’s at least heretical.

Are you saying that Jesus was in error here:

But when the first also came, they thought that they should receive more: And they also received every man a penny. And receiving it they murmured against the master of the house, Saying: These last have worked but one hour and thou hast made them equal to us, that have borne the burden of the day and the heats. But he answering said to one of them: friend, I do thee no wrong: didst thou not agree with me for a penny? Take what is thine, and go thy way: I will also give to this last even as to thee. Or, is it not lawful for me to do what I will? Is thy eye evil, because I am good?

I said

Would you say that graces and crosses are about average for men and women? Does God work with averages. Can He not choose a class of people to have more or less? Can a whole primitive tribe of people in the Congo be denied the grace as a whole people to ever know about the True God? Can He choose to call millions of children from the world before they are even born? Is it more of a blessing to be called from this life not having the possibility of ever sinning and therefore gain eternal reward. Or is it more of a blessing to be born, have the potential to prove your love for God, in the face of more or less crosses and blessing dished out to you, and have the potential to earn a higher reward?

To which you replied

Your “response” above goes off on a wild tangent which in no way is responsive to beckymarie’s post which stated:

I believe that people have different crosses in life, but I do not believe men in general have heavier crosses to bear and thus will have a greater reward in Heaven by faithfully bearing their crosses than by women doing the same.

I fail to see how this is tangent. Explain please.

Me:

Do you deny that greater cross born faithfully equals greater reward?

You:

No.

How can you say that and at the same time say God would be unfair if He gave someone (or a who group of people) a greater cross to bear?

 

[NTOT]

It is a cross to husbands…

 

[NTOT]

Any suffering is a cross to bear. If I stub my toe it is a small cross that I offer up for the good of souls. Even the tiniest sufferings are valuable, because if you don’t get into the habit of offering up the little ones along the way, you’re going to have a hard time managing when you receive a big cross.

And yes, atheists suffer but without merit. There is merit when we unite our sufferings to Christ.

Quite correct. Any and all suffering can be a cross to bear. They are all opportunities that can be either wasted or offered back to God to gain merit through them.

 

[NTOT]

GemmaRose, with the exception of saying that Men have greater rewards, I don’t think the idea that men have greater crosses to bear is cheuvanistic…

There’s 2 reasons why:

God calls men to be priests. THis is such a huge burden and hard job that there is even another Sacrament to give them grace for it. I dont view this is a power thing, but more as a servant thing. Instead of a triangle, its actually an inverted triangle…with the pope being at the bottom, then cardinals and bishops, then priests, then the rest of the church…meaning that they are in service to the church.

The other reason I think this is Eph 5, and theology of the body. In eph 5, women are called to be under the mission of their husbands, and the mission of the husbands are to love them as Christ loved the church… which means to die for their wives. So the wives job is to let their husbands love them.
In reading theology of the body, one can see all over the place where God has called the man to be the giver, and the woman to be the receiver. (Not just in the sexual act).

So you see, the idea isn’t cheavenistic… the fact that men are called to harder jobs and more crosses, its actually the reverse of cheavenism. The way God designed it is so that the beauty and the dignity of women are held up to a high place.

Now, as far as rewards, well, I don’t know about that.

Your post is excellent. I do believe that bearing a heavier cross faithfully does achieve greater merit, but I also believe that God somehow uses that greater suffering and greater merit to benefit others as well. In other words I think that someone suffering with sever pain from some affliction has the potential to release many many other souls from purgatory, who in turn benefit many here on Earth.

 

[JamesG]

I have a friend who consideres Jesus her boyfriend.

when I found that out I didn’t know what to say.

 

[Cathryn]

I have a friend who consideres Jesus her boyfriend.

when I found that out I didn’t know what to say.

She probably understands the spousal relationship of the Church to Christ.

 

[littleone]

I have a friend who consideres Jesus her boyfriend.

when I found that out I didn’t know what to say.

:nope:
I didn’t even think about that point but one day as my wife ( who is a very strong catholic) told me she loved me I told her that “yes aaaaarr, you are second in line of my lovers”. She couldn’t believe I would say that, but I said “hey wait a minute God gave me you. Am I to love you who God gave me, and could take at His will before I love the God who gave me you? If I love you first then I have not true love of God and If God should take you from me then I could lose both of you”. I must love God first, He is my lover my first love my everlasting love.
Godless:dancing: :clapping: :bowdown2:

 

[littleone]

Your post is excellent. I do believe that bearing a heavier cross faithfully does achieve greater merit, but I also believe that God somehow uses that greater suffering and greater merit to benefit others as well. In other words I think that someone suffering with sever pain from some affliction has the potential to release many many other souls from purgatory, who in turn benefit many here on Earth.

Yes I have an aunty who for some 30 years has been suffering and at present is in hospital seemingly getting gangrene and losing sight in both eyes hearing going and some 15 years ago she asked God why He wanted her here and God just said He needed her to pray, wow!

You put me at ease by your reply Gema I thought you might allow some woman or even humanism in there but now I know our heart is truely for God as Gema’s was (is).
Godbless you for ever.

 

[NTOT]

Yes I have an aunty who for some 30 years has been suffering and at present is in hospital seemingly getting gangrene and losing sight in both eyes hearing going and some 15 years ago she asked God why He wanted her here and God just said He needed her to pray, wow!

How sad, and yet how beautiful! Know that you and your aunt will be in my prayers tonight. God Bless! :hug3:

 

[littleone]

How sad, and yet how beautiful! Know that you and your aunt will be in my prayers tonight. God Bless! :hug3:

I guess the only way to see what god is saying or doing by His way is to think NOT by human thought but see the love God has got for His children, and yet also His mercy for with out, there would certainly be NO entrance to Heaven.
Godbless.

 

[iaskquestions]

I have a friend who consideres Jesus her boyfriend.

when I found that out I didn’t know what to say.

That’s exactly the situation I found myself in! You know, sometimes I feel jealous that they can relate to Jesus that way, and being a man, I cannot :crying: .

But that’s where I acknowledge the wisdom of God :bowdown: . He has made man and woman different, and he has given unique gifts and privileges to men and women.

 

[littleone]

That’s exactly the situation I found myself in! You know, sometimes I feel jealous that they can relate to Jesus that way, and being a man, I cannot :crying: .

But that’s where I acknowledge the wisdom of God :bowdown: . He has made man and woman different, and he has given unique gifts and privileges to men and women.

Brother that is not exactly as it is, since to love Jesus you have to relate OUTSIDE the realms of the flesh. My wife and I have both been touched by Jesus while at work and for me I felt as if falling to my knees by the power of His love coming down on me. I rang my wife when this firstly happened and she told me I should not be on the phone that Jesus was loving me, or putting His love into me in such a way that my spirit would take over my humanness to a point. This happened over some large amount of time.
Ask Jesus to allow you to have this It may happen.

Godbless

 

[ladylinguist]

Does any one else find this thread a bit silly? At what point did our relationship and search for God and His truth become part of the whole battle of the sexes? We are all of us frail and fallen human beings with challenges and obstacles blocking our road to God. As each personality is different, so each of us has different temptations and crosses, irrespective of gender. It is, in a way, very arrogant to stop and say “Oh, but my burden as a male/female/single/married, etc, is just so much harder than yours. You couldn’t possibly understand.” Perhaps instead of playing the “My life is so much worse than yours” game we should be engaging in conversations of “How are you struggling today? How can I help you in your walk with God?” It’s not a competition.

 

[iaskquestions]

Does any one else find this thread a bit silly? At what point did our relationship and search for God and His truth become part of the whole battle of the sexes? It’s not a competition.

I did not intend it to be a competition. But if some people turn it into one, it’s not my fault. My question was reasonable, for it was something which I myself experienced. If others look at it as a battle of the sexes, then they have a serious personality disorder.

 

[littleone]

I did not intend it to be a competition. But if some people turn it into one, it’s not my fault. My question was reasonable, for it was something which I myself experienced. If others look at it as a battle of the sexes, then they have a serious personality disorder.

Glad it has come to this because I believe that each one is right iaskquestions has the right to ask the question since it is on her (his) mind no problem there at all don’t you think?

However the question if asked in a humanistic sense then it would go on for ever, because I believe that the question could not be asked in a human sense since although God mad us to His likeness it is a relationship that can only pertain to that person at the degree they release by the grace God has given.
Godbless
Godbless
Godbless