Is it God's fault people go to hell?

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If God creates each one of us choosing our particular environments and conditions into which we’re born, knowing full well the consequences of each of our actions and being able to foresee our ultimate fate, then does he send us to hell? Kind of like a car manufacturer building a faulty car

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[SIGN][/SIGN]No. God gave us the best gift out of His Love for us… Free Will

The ones in hell are there because of their own choices.

God predestines no one to hell.
 
It’s very straightforward.

Catholics believe God knows everything that will ever happen.

God knows that before he even creates the person, that they will either choose heaven or hell.

God creates that person anyway, knowing full well they will choose to spend eternity in hell.

If God did not create them, they would not go to hell.

Therefore God creates earthly finite creatures who he knows will spend infinite in hell.
 
If God creates each one of us choosing our particular environments and conditions into which we’re born, knowing full well the consequences of each of our actions and being able to foresee our ultimate fate, then does he send us to hell? Kind of like a car manufacturer building a faulty car

Thanks
We can’t always choose what happens to us in our life, but we can choose how we interpret and respond to it.

Whether we become conqured by evil, by repaying evil for evil, hatred for hatred, vengence for vengence, or whether we conquer evil with good, by repaying good for evil, love for hatred, forgiveness for vengence, is all completely our choice.

A faulty car doesn’t have any other choice but to break down due to it’s manufacturing, due to how it was made or what happened to it.

Also, God manufactured the cars perfectly, it’s our driving that has made them faulty.

I hope this has helped.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
If God creates each one of us choosing our particular environments and conditions into which we’re born, knowing full well the consequences of each of our actions and being able to foresee our ultimate fate, then does he send us to hell? Kind of like a car manufacturer building a faulty car

Thanks
It’s a very heavy question but an interesting one. I noticed you didn’t put down a religious affiliation so I will assume you have none.
True God knows are beginnings and our end. As a poster stated, we have an opportunity to go to heaven or hell. We have been given this option so *we do participate *in our life choices. We live and die and we have no control over it. We are also given a choice to decide our afterlife. I choose heaven and therefore I do my best to attain it here on earth by doing good deed’s and charitable works.
We faulty cars are given a complete overhaul and makeover through Jesus, God’s Son who redeems us and once fully complete we accumulate the greatest prize Heaven or in this case the Indy 500 championship;)
 
If God creates each one of us choosing our particular environments and conditions into which we’re born, knowing full well the consequences of each of our actions and being able to foresee our ultimate fate, then does he send us to hell? Kind of like a car manufacturer building a faulty car

Thanks
It was actually that way with the Angels. Not that they had “defects”, but that the first place they looked, they never looked back. Michael knowing how good God was, looked at God and fell in love never to look away. Satan, knowing how marvelously made he was, fell in love (with himself) and never looked away, and with a hatred that he was not God.

To create a “distance” between him and us, so that we would not look and immediately be unable to look away, he created the angels to mediate between himself and us, and created us as “composite” beings (soul and body) so that our knowing and our will’s working would happen over time rather than instantaneously and unchangeably. We could then think about things and, yes, change what we love and look at the new love.

The angels were not a “failed experiment”. He knew he would send legions of them to hell and other legions would be his instruments in letting us know him without knowing him. And finally he himself, when one woman believed in him without seeing him, had his entrance into our midst without looking like irresistible glory. So that we could know who he is, learn who he is, through our senses, without our senses being destroyed. And we could love him and want to be with him, walk with him, hear him, in everything, which is finally eternal life.

God created a “contingent world”, and he knew this contingent world from eternity, that he would walk contingently with us, trying contingently to let us know him, and letting us contingently fall in love or not.

Now, you can speculate about God sending people to hell, but you are relating to a “divine being”, where I am relating to a man named Jesus, who does not overpower me with heaven or hell, but comes and says, “I want to stay at your house tonight and talk, how about it?..” That is my God, not that creature your question described.
 
It’s very straightforward.

Catholics believe God knows everything that will ever happen.

God knows that before he even creates the person, that they will either choose heaven or hell.

God creates that person anyway, knowing full well they will choose to spend eternity in hell.

If God did not create them, they would not go to hell.

Therefore God creates earthly finite creatures who he knows will spend infinite in hell.
If God didn’t create people who could/would choose ‘against’ Him, than there wouldn’t be any free will, you would use that against Him too, you would raise your fist again saying “we don’t have any free will because you just don’t create those who choose hell.”

‘Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.’


The creation of our soul, our free will are irrevocable gifts, and what makes them such gifts, is precisely the fact that they are irrevocable regardless of what use we make of them, whether we choose for or against Him.

Hell is hell, because it’s separation from God who is the source of all that is good, freely chosen by those who went to hell, so in the end, the wicked are just given exactly what they want and thats precisely what makes it hell.

Kind of like one island where all evil people live and the other island where all good people live, the evil people hate where they live, because of the other evil people like themselves that they live with there, but they also don’t want to change their ways and become good either.

If you treat others in a manner in which you would not like to be treated, if you mistreat others for your own personal gain, than you will spend eternity with those who do the same. If you treat others how you would like to be treated, if you love and look after others, likewise, you will spend eternity with those who do the same.

Anyway, this is just my simplified version of how I believe it sort of works, I hope this has helped.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
If God didn’t create people who could/would choose ‘against’ Him, than there wouldn’t be any free will, you would use that against Him too, you would raise your fist again saying “we don’t have any free will because you just don’t create those who choose hell.”

‘Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.’


The creation of our soul, our free will are irrevocable gifts, and what makes them such gifts, is precisely the fact that they are irrevocable regardless of what use we make of them, whether we choose for or against Him.

Hell is hell, because it’s separation from God who is the source of all that is good, freely chosen by those who went to hell, so in the end, the wicked are just given exactly what they want and thats precisely what makes it hell.

Kind of like one island where all evil people live and the other island where all good people live, the evil people hate where they live, because of the other evil people like themselves that they live with there, but they also don’t want to change their ways and become good either.

If you treat others in a manner in which you would not like to be treated, if you mistreat others for your own personal gain, than you will spend eternity with those who do the same. If you treat others how you would like to be treated, if you love and look after others, likewise, you will spend eternity with those who do the same.

Anyway, this is just my simplified version of how I believe it sort of works, I hope this has helped.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
There is no hell without God.

There is no man without God.

There are no men in hell without God.
 
There is no hell without God.
There is no free will without a choice.
There is no man without God.
So you wish nothing existed? :confused:
There are no men in hell without God.
I’m sorry, but I just don’t understand the length some people go to try and ‘blame everything’ on God. Where is mans responsibility? where is mans accountability for his actions?

If you brake the law should we put your parents in jail?

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
Honestly, if hell turns out to be real, it would be far better for nothing to exist, than for the absolute vast majority of Gods children to have been created, only to end up in hell.

After all, if we didn’t exist, we wouldn’t know about it.

Without God, there is no hell.

God knows that the baby he just created, is going to one day end up for eternity in hell, but God created that baby anyway.

God created a person to live for a short period of time on earth, knowing that that person will spend eternity in hell.

That’s just cruel in my view.
 
Honestly, if hell turns out to be real, it would be far better for nothing to exist, than for the absolute vast majority of Gods children to have been created, only to end up in hell.

After all, if we didn’t exist, we wouldn’t know about it.

Without God, there is no hell.

God knows that the baby he just created, is going to one day end up for eternity in hell, but God created that baby anyway.

God created a person to live for a short period of time on earth, knowing that that person will spend eternity in hell.

That’s just cruel in my view.
And what about heaven? if heavens real? where we all love and are infinitely loved?

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
And what about heaven? if heavens real? where we all love and are infinitely loved?

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
God also knows who is going to heaven.

Before God created people, he knew exactly who would choose heaven and who would choose hell.

God is unconcerned, as he creates the hell bound people anyway. Then God blames them for not choosing him, but God knew they weren’t going to choose him! 🤷

The game is rigged.
 
God also knows who is going to heaven.

Before God created people, he knew exactly who would choose heaven and who would choose hell.

God is unconcerned, as he creates the hell bound people anyway. Then God blames them for not choosing him, but God knew they weren’t going to choose him! 🤷

The game is rigged.
I believe there is more I could probably say, but I am still learning myself, more importantly though, may I ask why you are talking about hell as if you are destined to end up there? if Hell exists, why do you believe that is where you will go? Don’t you want to love and be loved?

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
I believe there is more I could probably say, but I am still learning myself, more importantly though, may I ask why you are talking about hell as if you are destined to end up there? if Hell exists, why do you believe that is where you will go? Don’t you want to love and be loved?

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
I do not believe any God or Gods exist, let alone the God of Abraham.

If the God of Abraham exists, then I, as a former Roman Catholic, am most assuredly destined to spend eternity in hell, as I have chosen to reject the one true God.

All of which God knew before he created me.
 
I do not believe any God or Gods exist, let alone the God of Abraham.

If the God of Abraham exists, then I, as a former Roman Catholic, am most assuredly destined to spend eternity in hell, as I have chosen to reject the one true God.

All of which God knew before he created me.
Christ redeemed all of us on the Cross, He suffered unto death for all of our sins, past, present and furture, all He is asking of us is to open our hearts to His love for us, in order to love and be loved.

Jesus to St. Faustina -

"If My death has not convinced you of My love for you, what will?" (Diary, 580)

Sacred Heart of Jesus Image - (St Margaret-Mary Alacoque)

http://s7.postimg.org/4jx43bm1n/Christ_7.jpg

Jesus to St Margaret-Mary Alacoque -

**"Behold this Heart which has loved men so much that it has spared nothing, even to exhausting **(Crucifixion) and consuming itself (Last Supper, Eucharist) in order to testify to them it’s love."

Divine Mercy Image - St. Faustina

http://s8.postimg.org/422f1cyxh/Christ_9.jpg

Jesus to St Faustina

"These two rays issued forth from the very depths of My tender mercy when My agonized Heart was opened by a lance on the Cross." (Diary, 299)

"My Heart overflows with great mercy for souls, and especially for poor sinners. If only they could understand that I am the best of Fathers to them and that it is for them that the Blood and Water flowed from My Heart as from a fount overflowing with mercy. For them I dwell in the tabernacle as King of Mercy. I desire to bestow My graces upon souls, but they do not want to accept them. You, at least, come to Me as often as possible and take these graces they do not want to accept. In this way you will console My Heart. Oh, how indifferent are souls to so much goodness, to so many proofs of love! My heart drinks only of the ingratitude and forgetfulness of souls living in the world. They have time for everything, but they have no time to come to Me for graces." (Diary, 367).

"My mercy is greater than your sins and those of the entire world. Who can measure the extent of my goodness? For you I descended from heaven to earth; for you I allowed myself to be nailed to the cross; for you I let my Sacred Heart be pierced with a lance, thus opening wide the source of mercy for you. Come, then, with trust to draw graces from this fountain. I never reject a contrite heart." (Diary, 1485).

"Tell sinful souls not to be afraid to approach Me; speak to them of My great mercy" (Diary, 1396).

http://s28.postimg.org/6bvy5pai5/Prodigal_Son.jpg
Jesus to Catalina:
The Passion - loveandmercy.org/Eng-TP-Reg.pdf

I want to teach sinners that because they have sinned, they should not distance themselves from Me thinking that they no longer have recourse and that they will never be loved as before they sinned. Poor souls! These are not the feelings of a God who has shed all His Blood for you. Come to Me all of you and fear not, because I love you. I will cleanse you with My Blood and you will be as white as snow. I will drown your sins in the water of My Mercy and nothing will be able to snatch from My Heart the Love that I have for you.
Jesus to Catalina:
The Great Crusade of Mercy - loveandmercy.org/Eng-CM-Reg.pdf

**I want to talk to you about My Mercy; I want to teach you Mercy; I want you to preach My Mercy. But in order to speak of it, you need to feel love because a person who does not love, cannot know Mercy.
  1. If you love, it is because I loved you first; just as I am Love. Whoever knows how to love remains in Me and I in him. My Father did not send Me as an offering for you to love Me, but because My Father is Love and I am one with My Father. Therefore, understand that nothing is sweeter than love, for it proceeds from the One who is the Creator of everything.
  2. And so, if you want to be merciful to your fellow human being, first you have to love and be compassionate to that person and if you want to receive Mercy, you must let yourself be loved. Mercy is the chain that unites with love, for one cannot love without being merciful. Understand that My love is without measure, it does not feel burdensome, nor does it value effort, it is simply given. You, on the other hand, are weak in love and imperfect in virtue; you are in need of My strength and of My comfort.**
Jesus to Catalina:
The Great Crusade of Mercy - loveandmercy.org/Eng-CM-Reg.pdf

11) Mercy is love, My child. It is union with God and union with God is the certitude of victory and an everlasting abundance of virtues. Mercy is the unquestionable proof of love for Me.
http://s24.postimg.org/s91lh9u91/Crucifixion.jpg
Jesus to Catalina:
The Passion - loveandmercy.org/Eng-TP-Reg.pdf

**Contemplate My wounds and see if there is anyone who has suffered as much as I, to show their love…

Contemplate for a moment these bloodstained hands and feet… This naked body, covered with wounds, with urine, and blood. Dirty… This head punctured by sharp thorns, soaked in sweat, full of dust, and covered in Blood…

Contemplate your Jesus, hanging on the Cross, without being able to make the slightest movement… naked, without fame, without honor, without liberty…

Contemplate Me in the image of the Christ that weeps and bleeds. There and in this way the world has Me.**
I’m not sure what more I can say 987mk, I hope the following has helped and I wish you peace.

Thank you for the dialogue with me. 🙂

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
It’s simply not true that just because God is omnipotent it means God predestines individual people to go to hell. In fact, God desires that none go there and gives us every resource in his infinite arsenal to make sure we don’t. The problem is that many don’t will to go there and God is not an overbearing God who will make people go where they do not wish to go, because a lover never forces anything on the beloved, even himself.

God can know every possible outcome of every possible choice that an individual makes and be omnipotent. In fact, that’s kind of the definition of omnipotence. Therefore God “foresees” that in our lives we face many choices, some God foresees will lead us towards hell and some God foresees will lead us toward heaven. He then allows us to make the choice between “life” and “death” and only insists that we “choose life” (Deuteronomy 30:19), but does not force anyone to make that choice (something that is all-loving wouldn’t force anything). In the end, regardless of whether we choose life or death, God’s will is going to be done for creation anyways and nothing we do can hinder that. We either become willing partners with God or unwilling partners with God, because God is able to use any choice we make (good or bad) ultimately for the good in ways only an all-powerful, all-knowing, all-merciful, all-just being can.

The choices we make only affect ourselves and each other. God sees the outcome of every choice we make, so when we make a choice, he can say that he “foresaw it”… but he also foresaw the outcome of every other choice we could’ve made.

I don’t know if that best represents doctrine on this issue, but it seems to make sense.
 
I do not believe any God or Gods exist,…I have chosen to reject the one true God…

All of which God knew before he created me.
I’ll keep you in my prayers 987mk. When and if your ready to realize your actual existence on Earth you’ll be ready to search out God who already has loved you and knows you. And by what I have read it appears that you are aware of God existing it’s just your not interested in searching for the Truth. It would be right under your nose.

If you have ever asked yourself ‘why am I hear?’ or ‘what’s life all about?’ then you should be looking into God for those answers.
 
Quite apart from the issue of God knowing what each of us will do in our lives, God created both Heaven and Hell and created the rules about where we end up after we die. So surely in that respect God is responsible that some people go to Hell.

Could God have created the universe with a Heaven but no Hell? Could He have created things so that those who did not deserve Heaven simply ceased to exist when they die, instead of condemning them to an eternity of torments?
 
I hope you don’t mind if I quote a small piece out of Timothy Keller’s book ‘The Reason for God’

People seem to think that hell works a little bit like this -

God gives us time, but if we haven’t made the right choices by the end of our lives, he casts our souls into hell for all eternity. These souls in hell then cry out for mercy but God say’s “Too Late! You had your chance! Now you will suffer!”

However, I believe this misunderstands the very nature of evil.

The biblical picture is that sin separates us from the presence of God, which is the source of all joy, love, wisdom or good things of any sort. Since we were originally created for God’s immediate presence, only before His face will we thrive, flourish and achieve our highest potential. If we were to lose His presence totally, that would be hell, the loss of our capability for giving or receiving love or joy.

A common view of hell is fire; fire disintegrates. Even in this life we can see the kind of soul disintegration that self-centeredness creates. We know how selfishness and self-absorption leads to piercing bitterness, nauseating envy, paralysing anxiety, paranoid thoughts, and the mental denials and distortions that accompany them. Now ask the question:* “What if wen we die, we don’t end, but spiritually our life extends on into eternity?” *

Hell then, is the trajectory of the soul, living a self-absorbed, self-centered life, going on and on forever.

Jesus’ parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man in Luke 16 supports this view of hell presented here, Lazarus is a poor man who begs at the gate of a cruel rich man. They both die and Lazarus goes to heaven while the Rich Man goes to hell. There he looks up and sees Lazarus in heaven.
The Rich Man and Lazarus:
Luke 16:19-31

19 “There was a rich man, who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. 20 And at his gate lay a poor man named Laz′arus, full of sores, 21 who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man’s table; moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.

22 The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried; 23 and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes, and saw Abraham far off and Laz′arus in his bosom. 24 And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy upon me, and send Laz′arus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am in anguish in this flame.’ 25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Laz′arus in like manner evil things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’

27 And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father’s house, 28 for I have five brothers, so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ 29 But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ 30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if some one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ 31 He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be convinced if some one should rise from the dead.’”
What’s interesting is that though their statuses have now been reversed, the Rich Man seems to be blind as to what has happened. He still expects Lazarus to be his servant and treats him as his water boy. He doesn’t ask to get out of hell, but strongly implies that God never gave him and his family enough information about the afterlife.

Others have noted the amount of denial, blame-shifting, and spiritual blindness in this soul in hell. Others have also noted that the Rich Man, unlike Lazarus, is never given a personal name. He is only called a “Rich Man” strongly hinting that since he had built his identity on his wealth rather than on God, once he lost his wealth he lost any sense of a self.

Please continue to next post -
 
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