Is it harder to talk to women about philosophy and religion?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Juansavage
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I believe it may be harder to speak about faith to anyone in whose life you are personally invested to a point where you are personally impacted by their choice. I would love to see protestant and agnostic male friends turn to Catholicism as it would benefit the, but if they chose otherwise, I would be satisfied to just let them see how the faith heals and helps in my life and hope they might one day revisit the idea. We could stay friends.

Were I in love with a non-Catholic man however, if he did not convert I would be personally and deeply impacted, and I personally would not marry nor continue dating him, so we would suffer personal loss from his decision.

Another factor is today’s generally hostile climate for social discussion on issues like politics and religion. I am at a point of really avoiding friends and relatives…including Catholics…who are liberal because they cannot have a rational conversation without almost immediately starting name calling and getting emotional. I am near Chicago…you in California…it is not easy to be true Catholic in either liberal hotbed locale. Issues of gay marriage, transgender politics, chastity, abortion…you cannot go five minutes as a devout Catholic having rational discussion with a liberal.

I caution you not to marry a non Catholic. I did and paid a high price for the mistake. What is a marriage if one spouse does not consider it a covenant with each other and God? I recall the day I realized that what was an eternal commitment to me was only a legal and financial commitment “as long as I feel like it” to my husband. All marital expectations were up for grabs for him such as fidelity…he did not believe in moral values generally…if sex with other women pleased him, it was only wrong if it hurt me…so if I didn’t know about it, he figured it was golden.

We ended up divorced and today my son is not part of the church because his father mocks my faith. I raised him in Faith formation but he chose not to be confirmed. He seems to like dating Mexican American girls, and my hope is he will marry one of them and she will bring him into the church. All his girlfriend’s over the years have been from devout Catholic families, so I haven’t given up yet!
 
Last edited:
Juansavage said:
I don’t push my faith, but when the topic comes up, I contribute. It seems that when non-Catholic women encounter an argument for Christianity they react very emotionally and negatively no matter how gently and reasonably delivered.

Your experience?
Click to expand...
In my experience, both men and women tend to be highly illogical and emotional in regards to religion and philosophy. Neither gender has a monopoly on being unreasonable.
 
IWantGod said:
Then again the bible says that it was a women who deceived Adam and caused the human race to fall. In a society where there is a push against sexism it would not surprise me if a great many women rejected Christianity for the apparent sexist attitude of the bible.
Click to expand...
I agree. Many women have been hurt by Christianity, severely so. It should be expected that they have an emotional response. Hurt is emotional. If they aren’t able to grow past it, it is where they live. I don’t understand how so many Christians don’t understand this.
 
I think the post you are responding to was meant to be tongue in cheek.
 
To be fair, it might be difficult to use philosophical arguments on someone who hasn’t studied philosophy, regardless of their gender. Reasoning not based on direct empirical evidence can seem kind of out there to someone not familiar with it.

Also, what I imagine can be an issue is feeling the need to break down arguments and present them as though you’re writing an essay, out of the concern that they won’t understand it. I think that could come across as pretty condescending.
 
Last edited:
I had a talking Barbie doll. When you pulled the string, it would say “Gee! philosophy and religion are so hard to discuss!”

No it didn’t.

Turns out that men and women are different and think and communicate differently. This did not hinder Saint Teresa of Avila, Saint Catherine of Siena, Saint Therése of Lisieux or the other female doctors of the Church.

How is it that you are trying to communicate? I would question that first.
 
Women don’t have a problem with philosophy. Read some of the greats - philosophy had a problem with women.

Women are just as capable. The year I graduated, I was one of only 3 men awarded departmental citations for excellence in philosophy. There were 10 awards. And this is despite the fact that studies show that philosophy departments around are very inhospitable to women. Which is a shame. Philosophy is more rigorous when there are more points of view. Not less.

I can’t comment about any particular instance without knowing what was said that made someone react “emotionally”. I do know that people, knowingly or not, cloak their unexamined beliefs in a veneer of “rationality” and then are mystified why their assertions upset people. It’s not irrational to be upset by someone proposing upsetting things. Especially when that person is coming from a position of privilege talking down to someone who isn’t. (And anyone who reads ‘privilage’ and rolls their eyes or wants to discount what I’ve said as SJW claptrap just proves my point)

I don’t want to cast blame or put words in your mouth, OP. But as a blanket suggestion to anyone, if someone reacts strongly to something we say, it falls upon us to understand why. And really listen. And then -critically- evaluate what we said against this information.

I won’t speak to theology. It isn’t my area of expertise and I think the basis for reasoned arguments are weaker there.
 
Last edited:
Rhubarb said:
. (And anyone who reads ‘privilage’ and rolls their eyes or wants to discount what I’ve said as SJW claptrap just proves my point)
Click to expand...
LOL yeah. I’ve quickly learnt that people immediately turn off when they see certain words and still think that they’re the logical ones in the conversation.
Rhubarb said:
I do know that people, knowingly or not, cloak their unexamined beliefs in a veneer of “rationality” and then are mystified why their assertions upset people
Click to expand...
This reminds me of a recent conversation I had with a guy who said he doesn’t want women to vote, lol!
Juansavage said:
It seems that when non-Catholic women encounter an argument for Christianity they react very emotionally and negatively no matter how gently and reasonably delivered.
Click to expand...
Many non Christians really really dislike Christianity. I didnt realise the extent of it until my own close friends were recently making fun of it. All of them have an experience/many experiences of judgemental Christians. So they’re just turned off from it in general.
Juansavage said:
they react very emotionally and negatively
Click to expand...
This is pretty subjective, so there is not much to say. I’m picturing yelling and screaming but obviously most women don’t do that. So what’s the usual negative response?

Also, what were you saying?

Like some posters said, they may have negative experiences. I do too.

I also think that men aren’t necessarily more logical, they frame their illogical beliefs in a psedo logical way while women tend to avoid that hassle, lol. I think in these situations, both are insufferable.

My sneaking suspicion though is that women’s reactions are perceived as emotional more quickly than men’s. Again it’s hard to tell because you didn’t specify yourself, but it reminds me of all of the ‘why is she getting hysterical?’ comments I tend to see when a woman argues her point.
 
What exactly have you said that upsets them?

Without this detail we wouldn’t know exactly why they react that way?

Blaming their reaction to them being women is being intellectually lazy in my opinion. Stereotypes while based on reality distort the true essence of this reality.
 
Lea101 said:
I also think that men aren’t necessarily more logical, they frame their illogical beliefs in a psedo logical way while women tend to avoid that hassle, lol. I think in these situations, both are insufferable.
Click to expand...
Especially when the premise of their argument is false to begin with. Basing your position on a faulty premise, no matter how impeccable the logic, makes for bad arguments.
 
Juansavage said:
It seems that when non-Catholic women encounter an argument for Christianity they react very emotionally and negatively no matter how gently and reasonably delivered.
Click to expand...
Can you give some examples of this gentle and reasonable delivery?
 
I don’t think it’s harder per se, but it’s pretty obvious from all parts of scripture (and regular observation) that men and women relate to God in different ways, just as they relate to the world and other people in different ways. And it’s obviously on a case by case basis.
 
Last edited:
(Sarcasm alert)

Yup

If you try explaining this fact to the womenfolk they get all hysterical and stuff.

Don’t they know it’s the truth?

I guess it’s too much for their pea brains to handle.
 
Last edited:
Actually, in reading other posts by that poster, I don’t think it was meant to be sarcastic …
 
I think there are only 2 reasons someone fails to listen, pride and anger, neither of which is exclusive to women.

Pride keeps me from ever admitting I’m wrong. “If I can’t prove I’m right with reason, I’ll have to resort to brute force and berate you into submission to my view. Afterall, I know how smart I am. I’ve constantly told you how smart I am for not falling for that devious Church that forces women to have children, submit to a patriarchy, and donate all of my money to buy the pope a bigger throne. It would be humiliating if after all of that I was wrong, so good think I’m not and your reasoning is stupid.”

Anger keeps me from caring if I’m wrong. “Reason will never justify what the Church has done to me. I resent the Church. The Church is wicked and full of scandal. The Church wouldn’t let me get my son Baptized. The Church excommunicated my cousin. I blame the Church for the rift in my family.”

There may be a trend of pride in women, given our current culture’s “empowerment” movement, that is more distinctly recognizable. Look to any cartoon/sitcom that our women are being raised with and see the oblivious/incompetent husband that is led by the intelligent/hardworking wife, that reinforces this pride. However, I don’t think women in general struggle with reason, and you can find plenty of proud angry men that refuse to listen too.

Edit: I suppose succumbing to any of the 7 deadly sins would hinder the ability to see reason, but I think the 2 I mentioned are most likely to elicit a strong emotional response.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top