Is it OK to be truly happy living in a world where more than 9,500 innocent children starve to death each and every day?

[TEPO]

Please keep in mind that this is not what I’m saying. I’m saying that this life has a Divine purpose in that it leads us to eternal happiness. Miserable and corrupt, yes, but purposeful.

How will we be eternally happy in the next life knowing that some of those we lived with while on earth are spending eternity in hell? How will we just ‘forget’ them, especially when we once loved them?

 

[Robert_Sock]

How will we be eternally happy in the next life knowing that some of those we lived with while on earth are spending eternity in hell? How will we just ‘forget’ them, especially when we once loved them?

We do not know if anybody will be in hell.

 

[TEPO]

We do not know if anybody will be in hell.

I hope you’re right Robert. I just thought I’d show you my paradigm of life eternally as it’s what’s been on my mind as of lately. I’m thinking in terms of life everlasting, and trying to put it all into perspective. It’s just ‘where-I-am’ right now.

 

[tonyrey]

Please keep in mind that this is not what I’m saying. I’m saying that this life has a Divine purpose in that it leads us to eternal happiness. Miserable and corrupt, yes, but purposeful.

Has it occurred to you that you will **never **be happy - **even in the next life **- because you are obsessed with the thought of starving children? You need to remember the Beatitudes. The more we suffer on earth the greater our joy in heaven.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Has it occurred to you that you will **never **be happy - **even in the next life **- because you are obsessed with the thought of starving children? You need to remember the Beatitudes. The more we suffer on earth the greater our joy in heaven.

Has it ever occurred to you that the reason innocent children starve to death is because people are not compassionate enough to truly feel for them? Think about it!

How do you come up with the silly accusation that I’m ‘obsessed’ when in fact I’m just being human about these atrocities?

 

[Elizabeth502]

Has it ever occurred to you that the reason innocent children starve to death is because people are not compassionate enough to truly feel for them?

(Answering for Tony…)

It has occurred to me, and to people who have dedicated their lives to ending world hunger, that the absence of ability to control political situations in Third World countries is more to blame for childhood starvation than any “lack of compassion.”

That, and the sometimes odd priorities of agencies like the UN (which in itself can behave like a highly politicized body).

Hunger is an apolitical reality but one dependent on political and practical intervention to end the failed distribution of food to those countries already receiving physical aid, including from individuals and non-profits.

Your inflammatory thumbnails would best be directed at the U.S. Congress, perhaps, urging them to bring some kind of political, economic, even military sanctions to bear on countries in Africa which ignore starving children while protecting their own government members.

The question remains which you have never answered: The real test of compassion, as Jesus said often, is not in words but in action. In this case, since electronics are mostly free today, your own conscience should be commanding you to provoke Congress to act. Why aren’t you doing that instead of demanding that anonymous discussion forum users act instead?

 

[Robert_Sock]

(Answering for Tony…)

It has occurred to me, and to people who have dedicated their lives to ending world hunger, that **the absence of ability to control political situations in Third World countries is more to blame for childhood starvation than any “lack of compassion.”
** [bold mine]
That, and the sometimes odd priorities of agencies like the UN (which in itself can behave like a highly politicized body).

Hunger is an apolitical reality but one dependent on political and practical intervention to end the failed distribution of food to those countries already receiving physical aid, including from individuals and non-profits.

Your inflammatory thumbnails would best be directed at the U.S. Congress, perhaps, urging them to bring some kind of political, economic, even military sanctions to bear on countries in Africa which ignore starving children while protecting their own government members. [bold mine]

The question remains which you have never answered: The real test of compassion, as Jesus said often, is not in words but in action. In this case, since electronics are mostly free today, your own conscience should be commanding you to provoke Congress to act. Why aren’t you doing that instead of demanding that anonymous discussion forum users act instead?

You seem to flip-flop by stating that things cannot be changed because of political considerations, and then you say that Congress can enact sanctions against offending countries.

As I said previously, I do what I can to promote human welfare.

 

[Elizabeth502]

You seem to flip-flop by stating that things cannot be changed because of political considerations, and then you say that Congress can enact sanctions against offending countries…

No, I am completely consistent. I have said repeatedly that individual efforts have little consequence in such massive and intractable conditions such as exist in sub-Sahara Africa, but that bodies of people with political power may be able to achieve some success by initiating certain strategies.

 

[Robert_Sock]

No, I am completely consistent. I have said repeatedly that individual efforts have little consequence in such massive and intractable conditions such as exist in sub-Sahara Africa, but that bodies of people with political power may be able to achieve some success by initiating certain strategies.

With an outpouring of public sympathy for those affected by these atrocities, people like you and I could have a drastic effect on governmental actions!

 

[tonyrey]

Has it ever occurred to you that the reason innocent children starve to death is because people are not compassionate enough to truly feel for them? Think about it!

There is no need to **think **about a fact which is so blatantly obvious. The answer is to **do **what we can to help them.

How do you come up with the silly accusation that I’m ‘obsessed’ when in fact I’m just being human about these atrocities?

I think you’re being inhuman in making people feel guilty about being happy when there are limits to what we can do to help the afflicted. It is not only unrealistic but also presumptuous to take the burden of the whole world on our shoulders. What we should be doing is not discuss whether it is OK to be truly happy but what **action **we can take.

Two hundred and eight-one posts on the subject of being truly happy are more than enough. I know you mean well but your posts on topics like this and the world being a prison do not exactly inspire others with the joy of being a Christian. They may deter people who are contemplating becoming a Catholic.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

With an outpouring of public sympathy for those affected by these atrocities, people like you and I could have a drastic effect on governmental actions!

so why are you preaching to the choir here instead of going to the vast majority of nonbelievers out there?

Most Christians (and Muslims and Jews and Buddhists etc) have a worldview which either encompasses God and/or core moral teachings which address the evils in this life, including hunger.

Most nonChristians and nonbelievers have A worldview which may or may not include a knowledge or understanding of the evil of hunger OR acknowledge it as wrong but have a kind of ‘laissez-faire’ attitude to it. If your ‘personal credo’ is "try to be a nice person’, you might (if reminded) think about a starving child, especially if you see a rock star asking to ‘feed the children’. . .and you might even think about donating something unless you yourself just have too much on your plate and you forget about it the next day but hey, you’re only human and even thinking about helping proves you’re a good person, right?. . .Because a person who doesn’t believe in God (and in Christ, the Way, Truth, and Life) might be a very nice person in the confines of his or her ‘personal life’ but that person simply hasn’t been brought up to consider evil as an offense against GOD and not simply ‘something bad that can happen in a world which is just chaos’.

Of course, plenty of Christians and believers can get caught up in ‘the secular world’ as well, especially if they have just been ‘baptized’ as infants and then never darken the church door again, but a practicing Christian/believer such as are the vast majority on these forums is already thinking–and acting–to help stop evil.

What you really need to do is go out and address the cheerful agnostic/atheist out there and get them ‘on board’ with believers. THEN you might start to see a difference again. .

 

[jmcrae]

If so, how do you reason?

Someone should be happy. I don’t think we should ignore the poor - obviously, we have to do whatever we can - “adopt” a poor family and help them make ends meet, teach literacy classes, help with the food bank, etc. - but if you have the chance to be happy, take it. There will then be less unhappiness in the world, because of it.

I see no reason to add to the misery of the world.

 

[tonyrey]

*I don’t believe any Christian has declared that it would be better if life had **never ***

Your view reflects your cynicism. It hasn’t occurred to you that we may have been created out of unselfish love to share the joy of being alive.

Looking at history does not paint him as a particularly loving father, following the Christian model.

Your view of history is clearly jaundiced and one-sided because it ignores all the creative achievements of mankind and the happiness of countless ordinary people who have been grateful for what they had.

I think that if you were to conduct a survey of everyone on the planet you would find a sizable number who would choose the non-existence option.

Where do you obtain your statistics?

You would be none the wiser, much like death that ends right there

I don’t know what you think that proves.

 

[tonyrey]

Someone should be happy. I don’t think we should ignore the poor - obviously, we have to do whatever we can - “adopt” a poor family and help them make ends meet, teach literacy classes, help with the food bank, etc. - but if you have the chance to be happy, take it. There will then be less unhappiness in the world, because of it.

I see no reason to add to the misery of the world.

The decline in religious belief is partly due to the false impression of Christianity given by Puritans and killjoys.

 

[Robert_Sock]

There is no need to **think **about a fact which is so blatantly obvious. The answer is to **do **what we can to help them.

I think you’re being inhuman in making people feel guilty about being happy when there are limits to what we can do to help the afflicted. It is not only unrealistic but also presumptuous to take the burden of the whole world on our shoulders. What we should be doing is not discuss whether it is OK to be truly happy but what **action **we can take.

What about when we are not doing enough to help the poor children who are suffering from starvation? Did it ever occur to you that perhaps with more of an effort we would be able to feed everyone?

Two hundred and eight-one posts on the subject of being truly happy are more than enough. I know you mean well but your posts on topics like this and the world being a prison do not exactly inspire others with the joy of being a Christian. They may deter people who are contemplating becoming a Catholic.

Are we supposed to deny the truth to gain Catholic members?

There are plenty of people of other religions who would agree with my view. For example, the Imitation of Christ is very popular in all Christian circles, not just with Catholics. I read it everyday, and find it so rich and fruitful.

 

[Robert_Sock]

“Oh, if only a man had a spark of true love in his heart, he would know for certain that all earthly things are full of vanity.”
-The Imitation of Christ, Book 1, Chapter 15

 

[Elizabeth502]

this:

I think you’re being inhuman in making people feel guilty about being happy when there are limits to what we can do to help the afflicted.

and this:

your posts on topics like this and the world being a prison do not exactly inspire others with the joy of being a Christian. They may deter people who are contemplating becoming a Catholic.

What about when we are not doing enough to help the poor children who are suffering from starvation? Did it ever occur to you that perhaps with more of an effort we would be able to feed everyone?

It occurs to those who have read up on the realities of the subject, that results are not indicators of degree of effort. If such degrees of involuntary poverty/starvation were to occur in the U.S. in modern times, even if there were no gov’t assistance it would be unlikely that starvation from neglect would occur. Why? There are many options in place in this country, to prevent or alleviate such situations. Unlike Africa, our country:

(a) is mobile, and I don’t just mean electronically
(b) is not affected by prolonged vagaries of climate as much as Africa, affecting food availability
(c) has a very large middle class (and +), the combined population of which can offer direct personal help, with assurances that funds will not be diverted to corrupt officials, due to far greater individual control in a free country than an unstable political climate thousands of miles and an ocean away
(d) enjoys freedom of the press and rapid communication
(e) has relatively stable infrastructure and reliable transportation

Again, that would be if there weren’t gov’t intervention available, such as emergency funds, regular assistance, etc.

Exerting control in a foreign situation is vastly different, despite the fact that it is constantly tried.

 

[Robert_Sock]

this:

and this:

It occurs to those who have read up on the realities of the subject, that results are not indicators of degree of effort. If such degrees of involuntary poverty/starvation were to occur in the U.S. in modern times, even if there were no gov’t assistance it would be unlikely that starvation from neglect would occur. Why? There are many options in place in this country, to prevent or alleviate such situations. Unlike Africa, our country:

(a) is mobile, and I don’t just mean electronically
(b) is not affected by prolonged vagaries of climate as much as Africa, affecting food availability
(c) has a very large middle class (and +), the combined population of which can offer direct personal help, with assurances that funds will not be diverted to corrupt officials, due to far greater individual control in a free country than an unstable political climate thousands of miles and an ocean away
(d) enjoys freedom of the press and rapid communication
(e) has relatively stable infrastructure and reliable transportation

Again, that would be if there weren’t gov’t intervention available, such as emergency funds, regular assistance, etc.

Exerting control in a foreign situation is vastly different, despite the fact that it is constantly tried.

An outpouring of widespread public sympathy would certainly affect the actions of government intervention.

 

[Elizabeth502]

An outpouring of widespread public sympathy would certainly affect the actions of government intervention.

Start a public blog then, Robert. As at least one other person has said on this thread, you’re preaching to the choir here. If you want “an outpouring of widespread public sympathy,” then take responsibility yourself for creating that opportunity. Go public, or ask someone for help doing that. In the meantime, you might want to investigate whether other similar people have already begun such initiatives against world hunger, because I know that there are such initiatives, and I used to be close friends with one such fairly prominent person.

All this whining and hand-wringing on your part is not effective.

 

[Robert_Sock]

Start a public blog then, Robert. As at least one other person has said on this thread, you’re preaching to the choir here. If you want “an outpouring of widespread public sympathy,” then take responsibility yourself for creating that opportunity. Go public, or ask someone for help doing that. In the meantime, you might want to investigate whether other similar people have already begun such initiatives against world hunger, because I know that there are such initiatives, and I used to be close friends with one such fairly prominent person.

All this whining and hand-wringing on your part is not effective.

Sorry, but as long as there are innocent children starving, you can expect to hear my voice on CAF.