Is it OK to be truly happy living in a world where more than 9,500 innocent children starve to death each and every day?

[dshix]

Don’t change horses in the middle of the stream, Robert. You are attempting to claim that the absolute extremist view (one happy person, 7 billion starving) is obviously wrong, and using that to try to claim that there is NO place to ‘draw the line’. But nobody is trying to draw a line except you. None of us feel that there is some magic ‘number’ of people who can starve while we enjoy ourselves, and that one ‘over’ that number means that we stop enjoying ourselves.

There are people who gave birth on September 11, 2001, not just in the world, but in the US, and even in New York City itself. Do you think the parents of these children should not have felt happiness in the birth of their children because of the terrorist attacks? How about the children, ‘innocent little children’ who on that day perhaps won a game or a prize or made a friend? Should THEY not have felt happiness in that?

I was 7 when President Kennedy was shot. We were, all of us, shocked (even little children knew something very terrible had happened to an important man). But none of us were told by the good sisters to go home, sit in sackcloth and ashes, and find no joy from now on in the love of our parents, family, and friends, because of this terrible event.

 

[pnewton]

I was 7 when President Kennedy was shot. We were, all of us, shocked (even little children knew something very terrible had happened to an important man). But none of us were told by the good sisters to go home, sit in sackcloth and ashes, and find no joy from now on in the love of our parents, family, and friends, because of this terrible event.

What a timely example. Fifty years ago today.

 

[Brendan]

I would also claim that if we should feel unhappy about anything in this world, it would be over the fact that there are 4 Billion people in the world who are not Catholic are thus starving for the Eucharist.

The rampant spiritual starvation in the world would be my greater concern.

 

[Robertanthony]

Don’t get it…joke? Not?

If this is really your viewpoint, why do you remain alive? Why has God give us the instinct to fight for our lives?

Ever hear of Albingensianism?

And so…was Fulton J. Sheen wrong when he said everyone strives for happiness?

For the same reason someone who feels chronically tortured and tormented over some issue, the hope that your happiness may just be around the corner is a powerful deterrent to actually go ahead and off yourself. So is the threat of hell. So is the fear to fail one’s suicide the way one has failed most things that mattered in life. You don’t want to face this charming life without your eyesight or quadraplegic. Life is a gift, it can range from being a trip around the world with your family when you turn 10, the other end of the spectrum would be getting nothing for your 10th birthday or perhaps getting a make-up kit if you’re a boy. God demands gratitude and a spirit of servant for both gifts. God gave me a make-up kit along with dolls on my10th birthday, of course I can only know him as the awesome being who thought getting me a make-up kit and dolls would overfill me with joy. He essentially wants me to be happy with the dolls and make-up.
You know how people get excited about Jesus paying the price for us, as for me what has always stuck in my mind as the greatest act of mercy and love was in *Of Mice and Men *, what George did to (and for) Lennie at the very end. Whoever could deliver me from the life God has ordained for me ab aeterno would win my perpetual allegiance and gratitude.

 

[tonyrey]

I would say yes so long as you help those less fortunate, and don’t become oblivious.

The sad fact is that if you mourned each tragedy in the world, you would go mad with grief after about 5 minutes

The OP reveals an unbalanced view of life. We’re told to love our neighbour **as **ourselves, not more than ourselves. Otherwise the world would be hell because everyone would be miserable!

 

[tonyrey]

For the same reason someone who feels chronically tortured and tormented over some issue, the hope that your happiness may just be around the corner is a powerful deterrent to actually go ahead and off yourself. So is the threat of hell. So is the fear to fail one’s suicide the way one has failed most things that mattered in life. You don’t want to face this charming life without your eyesight or quadraplegic. Life is a gift, it can range from being a trip around the world with your family when you turn 10, the other end of the spectrum would be getting nothing for your 10th birthday or perhaps getting a make-up kit if you’re a boy. God demands gratitude and a spirit of servant for both gifts. God gave me a make-up kit along with dolls on my10th birthday, of course I can only know him as the awesome being who thought getting me a make-up kit and dolls would overfill me with joy. He essentially wants me to be happy with the dolls and make-up.
You know how people get excited about Jesus paying the price for us, as for me what has always stuck in my mind as the greatest act of mercy and love was in *Of Mice and Men *, what George did to (and for) Lennie at the very end. Whoever could deliver me from the life God has ordained for me ab aeterno would win my perpetual allegiance and gratitude.

Your cynicism reveals a total lack of appreciation for what you have and what you are - unless you consider yourself to be useless and worthless!

 

[tonyrey]

I agree with you that some people feel that life is more of a seemingly endless trial or prison sentence than a joyous and wondrous experience. I live in the real world and therefore realize life can be tough at times for many people and much tougher than the norm for some. I don’t deny this. At the same time, however, I don’t believe this is how G-d wants us to feel about our lives here on earth, and I reject the notion that this earthly life is a “vale of tears,” largely because such an idea has no place in Judaism as it hinders us, even if not entirely, from giving of our best to help others and help ourselves. The domain of life is life, not death, unless you are Freudian and believe in the death drive as an equally powerful and opposing force to the life drive.

This life is a vale of tears in many respects - and ultimately for everyone - because death separates us from those we love but, above all, there is gross injustice. To think otherwise deters us from helping others because we have an unrealistic view of the world. The truth is not always pleasant…

 

[Robertanthony]

That’s one possible way of looking at it, and no doubt matches some people’s experiences.

But there are others who find life pretty much a trial, and, all in all, would prefer not to have it. Now, such an attitude does not necessarily lead to suicide- many people stay around, simply to obey Divine Law and the will of God, to serve one’s duty.

But for such people, life is experienced either as a duty, “like the slave sighing for the shade” (Job 7), or as a kind of punishment for some mysterious guilt they did not personally commit.

Now, for such people, life need not be continual misery, or a wallowing in self-pity. At times, it may be enjoyable, or neutral. But still, it is a duty, not a gift. And we can do our duty, complete our prison term, with a smile or courtesy, helping and encouraging each other however we can. But that doesn’t mean that it ever stops beind a duty, a trial or a prison-term.

So, for such people (amongs whom I include myself) on the whole, the inevitably of death (whether Heaven or even the cool earth) is something which is viewed with the greatest possible joy- like waiting to finish a hard day’s work.

To me, a believer, life is something God pushed down my throat, the gag reflex did not stop him, I mean I had to have life, the world wouldn’t be quite what it is had I not been around…To me life is an undetermined prison sentence, I never know if or when I’m going to be released (in this lifetime) or when God is going to allow someone who’s going to be a bully, a meanie and my cell-mate to come along. My temporal sentence may be extended to an eternal one (an eternity of frustration, misery, acute suffering, permanently sustained in that dark and suffocating pit by the will of God), you have to have some amount of cruelty in you to keep someone alive when he doesn’t have the possiblity to hope. I know the old line about God’s retributive justice, and God’s infinity demanding an infinite punishment, but no human cruelty can match that cruelty.

 

[Robertanthony]

Your cynicism reveals a total lack of appreciation for what you have and what you are - unless you consider yourself to be useless and worthless!

I consider myself essentially those things, dumb, loser, hopeless, incidentally, money is the answer to the three things that plague me. God is fully aware, don’t worry, it’ll be interesting to see which comes first: the last straw or the answer to many decades of a heartbreaking life. Then, once on the other side, I’ll hear the same old tired line about how much God has given me, what Jesus did for me, and how i did not respond properly to God’s “awesome” gift of life. I want rest and peace, I may get eternal hell. What is there to not be thankful about? God is love, yet he sustains the miserable souls in hell (retributive justice), God is just, yet every one is born with the stain of original sin when they have committed no sin, God is just but one solitary sin, a temporal act, is able to land you in hell for eternity, infinitely punished for finite actions (retributive justice), God is not who people think or say he is. So who is God, the sentimental father waiting for his broke son or the friendly ruler who says “I never knew you” to people who thought they were going to meet a friend? Jesus paid a debt that I never incurred, if God had been just he would have punished whoever committed the fault, but him putting the serpent there is like an accident waiting to happen, so I don’t know exactly what game he was playing. Furthermore there is no reason I should have been born with original sin, unless God can convince me that I sinned intrauterinelly. I’m in God’s playground, I’ve looked high and low, there is no getting out of it, he loves me with a passion, but watch out if I don’t think the playground is for me or if I resent the playground meister for bringing and keeping me in his playground. Not to mention God’s supposedly archenemy, more like a Pitbull whose leash God controls, so whenever the damned dog bites you, you realize God has given the damned dog’s leash some slack. Archenemies? More like politicians who put on a show in front of the cameras, you’d swear they hate each other’s guts, behind the cameras they’re having a beer and a pleasant conversation. When you suffer for many years in life, when you realize that none of your miseries pose God an insolvable problem, you realize he wills every single aspect of your life, you realize that you’ll get as much from God as you’ll get water from a dry well. I know who God is from the way I’ve been treated, from the tear-filled prayers that have been left unanswered, he is heartless. But not with everyone. That he keeps souls alive in hell forever is a testament to God’s heartlessness and cruelty. Whether people choose hell or God sends them there is a moot point, he keeps them there, and he’s satisfied. That’s my God. That’s the God who graced me with a make-up kit and a doll house, he’s prescient, so he knew his gift did not suit me.

 

[snootycat]

Dear Roberanthony,

You are not a dumb loser, nor are you worthless. That is just that voice in your head that tells you bad things. Everyone needs money. That is the world we have inherited. Wringing your hands over it is a useless endeavor. This might sound simple minded but, I find that if I find a diversion, and tell that voice in my head to shut up, and just stop worrying about things that are just bad fortune and out of my control, all of a sudden things turn around for the better. You never know what is going to happen tomorrow. Keep your chin up. You are hear for a reason, and I am sure it is not to drive yourself mad with those depressing thoughts.

GOD BLESS,
snootycat

 

[Qoeleth]

To me, a believer, life is something God pushed down my throat, the gag reflex did not stop him, I mean I had to have life, the world wouldn’t be quite what it is had I not been around…To me life is an undetermined prison sentence, I never know if or when I’m going to be released (in this lifetime) or when God is going to allow someone who’s going to be a bully, a meanie and my cell-mate to come along. My temporal sentence may be extended to an eternal one (an eternity of frustration, misery, acute suffering, permanently sustained in that dark and suffocating pit by the will of God), you have to have some amount of cruelty in you to keep someone alive when he doesn’t have the possiblity to hope. I know the old line about God’s retributive justice, and God’s infinity demanding an infinite punishment, but no human cruelty can match that cruelty.

I understand exactly what you saying and feeling.

But there are two things which help you:

1. Remember, that this mortal life does not last forever, and,
2. There is, I believe, absolutely NO danger of eternal punishment for one whose present life is primarily suffering, whether due to sickness, disability, poverty, or whatever. “Whoever hates there life in this world, will inherit eternal life.” “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.” These are the words of Christ, and so a sure passport to Heaven.

While I would not suggesting abandoning Catholicism, have you thought about investigating Buddhist philosophy? I think you would get something out of it…

 

[snootycat]

Robertanthony,

You are not dumb, worthless nor are you all those other things that that little wicked voice in your head tells you. Everything that I read on your post has gone though everyone’s mind at one time or another. Everyone needs money. That is simply the world we have inherited. This might sound simple minded, but when I find my self berating my self I find a diversion to take my mind off of my worry’s and I tell that voice in my head to shut up. You never know what tomorrow brings. Chin up and hope for the best. Everyone is here for a reason, and the moment you stop looking for that reason, it will find you.

Old Chinese Proverb: I never rains everyday.

God Bless,
snottycat:thumbsup:

 

[Qoeleth]

I agree with you that some people feel that life is more of a seemingly endless trial or prison sentence than a joyous and wondrous experience. I live in the real world and therefore realize life can be tough at times for many people and much tougher than the norm for some. I don’t deny this. At the same time, however, I don’t believe this is how G-d wants us to feel about our lives here on earth, and I reject the notion that this earthly life is a “vale of tears,” largely because such an idea has no place in Judaism as it hinders us, even if not entirely, from giving of our best to help others and help ourselves. The domain of life is life, not death, unless you are Freudian and believe in the death drive as an equally powerful and opposing force to the life drive.

Would it be fair to say that Judaism emphasis God more as the Creator of this World, whereas Christianity emphasises Him more as Redeemer into a Better World?

 

[Robertanthony]

I understand exactly what you saying and feeling.

But there are two things which help you:

1. Remember, that this mortal life does not last forever, and,
2. There is, I believe, absolutely NO danger of eternal punishment for one whose present life is primarily suffering, whether due to sickness, disability, poverty, or whatever. “Whoever hates there life in this world, will inherit eternal life.” “Blessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.” These are the words of Christ, and so a sure passport to Heaven.

While I would not suggesting abandoning Catholicism, have you thought about investigating Buddhist philosophy? I think you would get something out of it…

Oftentimes, I’ll think about the years ahead of me, they look like a joyless list of chores that will bore the hell out of me and will rob me of my energy. Then it occurs to me that once i’ll have served the sentence that people who lost at the genetic lottery, or who are cursed by some sort of persistent bad luck, serve, I may end up in hell. Perhaps what i think has crushed me and my personality, God expects me to quickly get over, thta’s the problem of a loving God who is not loving. If God were loving, then I could take some comfort in knowing my eternity is safe, it’s tough to think of a bigger tyrant than God, really. If it weren’t for this loving God, life would be at most 70-80 years of pain, filled with some happy moments and neutral moments (as you said in another post), I’m around 40, another 30-40 years of a loser’s life is bearable, not fun, depressing, makes my heart sink, but bearable, what loving God has in store for me afterwards is cause for greater anxiety and despair. People seem to not be aware that you can’t love someone that you’re afraid of. The “beauty” of God’s hell is that when you find out you’re going there, it’s too late to do anything about it. Isn’t life tragic, though, to be snatched from inexistence to live, to experience the bitterness of life, to have your heart broken many, many times, to have your hopes crushed many, many times, and then you die only to be “greeted” by God, he then tells you casually where you will spend eternity. I feel stuck and God is not a credible person to go to because he’s the one who, through my wonderful father, created me for a life such as mine. I’m tormented and angry (that pretty much qualifies me for God’s eternal hell), I’m not at all at peace with who God made me, or that he made me to begin with, to be honest, there are times when I feel God is truly my worst enemy. I just can’t accept that God is both perfect and loving, I wish there hadn’t been a God or there had been a truly loving God. This one, with his eternal hell, is the worst-case scenario.
When you're nice to people and they're indifferent or hostile, do you bury them alive, partially drown them repeatedly and keep them in a dark, filthy, tiny dungeon in your basement for 25 years? What is "loving" or "perfect" about that? (that's my best attempt at depicting a temporal equivalent of God's eternal hell). With buddhism or any other philosophy, there would always be this nagging voice inside that would say, " Whatever you do, no matter what you do, there is an immortal, omnipotent entity, his essence is love, who has the power to destroy you both body and soul for eternity, awaiting you". I'll side with the prophet Jeremiah, even though there are good days, nice people, all in all I wish I had never come out of my mother's womb alive. I wish my mom and dad had never met. It would have spared a great deal of misery, and I'm not talking just about me. Good luck having a great life when you have my father as a father. Good luck with that. My father was God's awesome gift for me. God is either stupid or he wanted to destroy me. It worked. :thumbsup:

 

[Qoeleth]

Oftentimes, I’ll think about the years ahead of me, they look like a joyless list of chores that will bore the hell out of me and will rob me of my energy. Then it occurs to me that once i’ll have served the sentence that people who lost at the genetic lottery, or who are cursed by some sort of persistent bad luck, serve, I may end up in hell. Perhaps what i think has crushed me and my personality, God expects me to quickly get over, thta’s the problem of a loving God who is not loving. If God were loving, then I could take some comfort in knowing my eternity is safe, it’s tough to think of a bigger tyrant than God, really. If it weren’t for this loving God, life would be at most 70-80 years of pain, filled with some happy moments and neutral moments (as you said in another post), I’m around 40, another 30-40 years of a loser’s life is bearable, not fun, depressing, makes my heart sink, but bearable, what loving God has in store for me afterwards is cause for greater anxiety and despair. People seem to not be aware that you can’t love someone that you’re afraid of. The “beauty” of God’s hell is that when you find out you’re going there, it’s too late to do anything about it. Isn’t life tragic, though, to be snatched from inexistence to live, to experience the bitterness of life, to have your heart broken many, many times, to have your hopes crushed many, many times, and then you die only to be “greeted” by God, he then tells you casually where you will spend eternity. I feel stuck and God is not a credible person to go to because he’s the one who, through my wonderful father, created me for a life such as mine. I’m tormented and angry (that pretty much qualifies me for God’s eternal hell), I’m not at all at peace with who God made me, or that he made me to begin with, to be honest, there are times when I feel God is truly my worst enemy. I just can’t accept that God is both perfect and loving, I wish there hadn’t been a God or there had been a truly loving God. This one, with his eternal hell, is the worst-case scenario.

 When you're nice to people and they're indifferent or hostile, do you bury them alive, partially drown them repeatedly and keep them in a dark, filthy, tiny dungeon in your basement for 25 years? What is "loving" or "perfect" about that? (that's my best attempt at depicting a temporal equivalent of God's eternal hell). With buddhism or any other philosophy, there would always be this nagging voice inside that would say, " Whatever you do, no matter what you do, there is an immortal, omnipotent entity, his essence is love, who has the power to destroy you both body and soul for eternity, awaiting you".   I'll side with the prophet Jeremiah, even though there are good days, nice people, all in all I wish I had never come out of my mother's womb alive. I wish my mom and dad had never met. It would have spared a great deal of misery, and I'm not talking just about me. Good luck having a great life when you have my father as a father. Good luck with that. My father was God's awesome gift for me. God is either stupid or he wanted to destroy me. It worked. :thumbsup:

Yet, I admire that you never seem to doubt the existence of God. It is better to make an honest expression of anger or despair, than lying flattery or false optimist.

Most of what you say echoes with me. Well, I am not going to make a defence of this mortal life, or this world. And it would be blasphemy for me to presume to defend God by means of human arguments.

I used to feel the weight of endless time in front of me. But one day, I realised that neither time, space, matter, this universe, or any other universe, means anything at all. In fact, I realised that there is no self, there is no world, there is no pain, and there is no redemption. Only the One, unchanging, exists. And even He does not really ‘exist’.

Let life come or go, let me be canonized, or thrown into a ditch. It is all one, and all nothing.

At that point, having left behind hope and fear, joy and sorrow, I found perfect peace.

 

[meltzerboy]

Would it be fair to say that Judaism emphasis God more as the Creator of this World, whereas Christianity emphasises Him more as Redeemer into a Better World?

Christianity certainly places more emphasis, concern, worry, and hope on personal salvation and eternal life than Judaism. Not that Judaism does not believe in a World to Come; however, it does not speculate so much about what exactly that world consists of. Rather, it focuses more on repairing this earthly world, G-d’s creation. Yet Judaism does speak of redemption in a global sense, that is, the redemption of the whole earth during the Messianic Age, when there will be peace among the nations of the world, when the monotheistic G-d will be known to all nations (no forced conversions will be necessary), when the exiled Jewish people will return to their homeland, when the Temple will be rebuilt, and when Torah study will be revitalized, which is the scriptural meaning of the Renewed Covenant. That is the promise the Messiah will realize.

 

[tonyrey]

I consider myself essentially those things, dumb, loser, hopeless, incidentally, money is the answer to the three things that plague me. God is fully aware, don’t worry, it’ll be interesting to see which comes first: the last straw or the answer to many decades of a heartbreaking life. Then, once on the other side, I’ll hear the same old tired line about how much God has given me, what Jesus did for me, and how i did not respond properly to God’s “awesome” gift of life. I want rest and peace, I may get eternal hell. What is there to not be thankful about? God is love, yet he sustains the miserable souls in hell (retributive justice), God is just, yet every one is born with the stain of original sin when they have committed no sin, God is just but one solitary sin, a temporal act, is able to land you in hell for eternity, infinitely punished for finite actions (retributive justice), God is not who people think or say he is. So who is God, the sentimental father waiting for his broke son or the friendly ruler who says “I never knew you” to people who thought they were going to meet a friend? Jesus paid a debt that I never incurred, if God had been just he would have punished whoever committed the fault, but him putting the serpent there is like an accident waiting to happen, so I don’t know exactly what game he was playing. Furthermore there is no reason I should have been born with original sin, unless God can convince me that I sinned intrauterinelly. I’m in God’s playground, I’ve looked high and low, there is no getting out of it, he loves me with a passion, but watch out if I don’t think the playground is for me or if I resent the playground meister for bringing and keeping me in his playground. Not to mention God’s supposedly archenemy, more like a Pitbull whose leash God controls, so whenever the damned dog bites you, you realize God has given the damned dog’s leash some slack. Archenemies? More like politicians who put on a show in front of the cameras, you’d swear they hate each other’s guts, behind the cameras they’re having a beer and a pleasant conversation. When you suffer for many years in life, when you realize that none of your miseries pose God an insolvable problem, you realize he wills every single aspect of your life, you realize that you’ll get as much from God as you’ll get water from a dry well. I know who God is from the way I’ve been treated, from the tear-filled prayers that have been left unanswered, he is heartless. But not with everyone. That he keeps souls alive in hell forever is a testament to God’s heartlessness and cruelty. Whether people choose hell or God sends them there is a moot point, he keeps them there, and he’s satisfied. That’s my God. That’s the God who graced me with a make-up kit and a doll house, he’s prescient, so he knew his gift did not suit me.

There is no point in attempting to reason with somebody who enjoys attacking religion, being negative in every respect and reiterating Schopenhauer’s view that it would be better if life had never existed on this planet. It is quite evident you believe nothing is of any value whatsoever but your own warped view of life…

“Nothing shall come of nothing”. - King Lear

 

[inocente]

I consider myself essentially those things, dumb, loser, hopeless, incidentally, money is the answer to the three things that plague me. God is fully aware, don’t worry, it’ll be interesting to see which comes first: the last straw or the answer to many decades of a heartbreaking life.

Yikes bro. You sound exactly like me when I was suffering what turned out to be clinical depression. If you’ve not seen your doctor, go tell her what you posted and how you feel. She can help you. She will help you. She does it everyday.

 

[tonyrey]

Yikes bro. You sound exactly like me when I was suffering what turned out to be clinical depression. If you’ve not seen your doctor, go tell her what you posted and how you feel. She can help you. She will help you. She does it everyday.

 

[tonyrey]

Yet, I admire that you never seem to doubt the existence of God. It is better to make an honest expression of anger or despair, than lying flattery or false optimist.

Most of what you say echoes with me. Well, I am not going to make a defence of this mortal life, or this world. And it would be blasphemy for me to presume to defend God by means of human arguments.

I used to feel the weight of endless time in front of me. But one day, I realised that neither time, space, matter, this universe, or any other universe, means anything at all. In fact, I realised that there is no self, there is no world, there is no pain, and there is no redemption. Only the One, unchanging, exists. And even He does not really ‘exist’.

Let life come or go, let me be canonized, or thrown into a ditch. It is all one, and all nothing.

At that point, having left behind hope and fear, joy and sorrow, I found perfect peace.

In God’s Love…