Is it ok to listen to Dr Taylor Marshall?

[Crusader13]

This is what worries me about someone who has only been Catholic for 13 years becoming some sort of de facto spokesman for the Church.

He’s been Catholic for 13 years and now he knows what’s best for the Catholic Church. I’ve been Catholic my whole life. I did the schooling, confirmation, etc. But he’s more Catholic than myself all because I don’t go to the Tridentine Mass.

This is one argument i don’t understand in the slightest. He’s been a catholic for 13 years, not 13 months and it’s not as if he barely discovered scripture and God 13 years ago. Even if he did, so what, how does his length of time in the church determine his level of catholicity lol

Is there a minimum number of years one needs to be in the faith before they can start sharing it with others, if so I don’t think he got the memo. Lol

James Martin was ordained a priest 20 years ago and I would say without any hesitation that Taylor Marshall understands and supports more Catholic teaching and tradition in his 13 years then James Martin ever has in his two decades of the priesthood.

 

[gracepoole]

Speaking only for myself, Marshall brings his protestant past to his Catholicism. That’s natural and normal. But it can confuse the faith.

As for Fr. Martin, I’m not interested in speaking on that topic here. But any Catholic priest could better speak to evil spirits and the absolute danger involved in listening to them. Based on his exorcism-themed video, Marshall certainly is confused on that one.

 

[JimmyDFG]

As I said in my comment…

He’s been Catholic for 13 years and now he knows what’s best for the Catholic Church.

Judging from what he wrote on his Facebook April 27 (“the Novus Ordo has been a liturgical failure. Catholicism seems to be bifurcating into two religions. Choose the original and traditional Catholicism.”) it seems he knows what’s best for the Church. Mr. Taylor Marshall is the “traditional Catholicism” while those that don’t follow his brand, are bifurcating into another “religion”. Even thou I’ve been a Catholic my whole life, I’m not a real Catholic because I go to the Novus Ordo Mass.
And a few times he spoken not too kindly of those that have a different opinion than his own. Jimmy Akin, Scott Hahn, and Tim Staples are converts and I assume are better educated in Catholic theology, but yet Mr. Marshall fell away from his core competency of teaching and instead focuses on drama, scandal, and speculation.
The Novus Ordo Mass of Pope St. Paul VI is now the ordinary rite of the Latin Church. (Of course, the Tridentine Mass of Pius V replaced rites that existed before it, too.)

 

[commenter]

What do you suggest? Ignoring the truth and bury the head under the sand?
For what i gathered the guy just put the light on very real issues of the church

The thread isn’t about Dr. Marshall, it’s about people like you and me, whether to listen to him. Is Marshall a prudent use of our time, attention, and emotion?

We already know the Church and sociey have problems. What does listening to Dr. Marshall add? He provides minute details, none of which are likely useful to us for our personal actions.

I suppose some might argue that the “problem” he addresses is insufficient alarm. By listening to him, we get, what, sufficient alarm?
Sufficient for no action by you and me.

The fixation on sins of other people in the Church is really a way of putting my head in the sand, because it draws my attention away from doing something about my own sins.

Fixation on mistakes of popes and bishops draws my attention away from potential actions I can take in my personal life, to help evangelism, prolife, etc. Despair can be attractive, even seductive. It leads to passivity.

It also leads to returning for more.

 

[fedup19]

I would probably be c alled the same by some… no idea who this marshall is

but I guess I will d o a search

Pope F says very odd things and doesn’t he condone the taking of Communion by people who are in mortal sin, namely those who have been divorced and re-married (so called married) outside the Church? (meaning they never had a valid nullification of past marriage)?

what catholic would not be concerned??

 

[fedup19]

if we do not point out the wrongs done by priests and bishops and popes, the world will think Catholicism is XYZ [fill in the blanks]

yes, we should be focused on our own sins most of all, focused on obeying Jesus but to condone evil when you see it --or even to allow others to think that we condone it (not s aying anything against it)-- is evil

 

[fedup19]

I wish someone here would post something he has said… so far, I don’t see that (which is not to say I hv read every post)

 

[JimmyDFG]

Bad argument? It’s bad argument comparing Taylor Marshall to that of Paul And Peter. To Peter who spent time will Jesus.

It’s not a bad argument pointing out the division when he makes such comments that Catholicism is bifurcating into two different “religions”. What is this other religion that he speaks of? And the Novus Ordo has been a liturgical failure. Mr. Taylor Marshall being a Catholic should know what Pope Benedict XVI, writing as a high-ranking Cardinal in The Ratzinger Report of 1985:
“It is likewise impossible to decide in favor of Trent and Vatican I but against Vatican II. Whoever denies Vatican II denies the authority that upholds the other two councils and thereby detaches them from their foundation”.
Does Peter at any point in time criticize to other people that they should go back to the Passover rather than Eucharist? Likewise, where does Paul say in 1 Corinthians 11:23-34 that they should go back to the Passover?
Bad argument on your part.

 

[JimmyDFG]

I wish someone here would post something he has said… so far, I don’t see that (which is not to say I hv read every post)

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

 

[fedup19]

how long do you have to be here to be able to post a new topic?

 

[fedup19]

well, I barely remember the old Mass but I remember it well enough to know that it was the right way …

 

[gracepoole]

JimmyDFG:

He’s been Catholic for 13 years

“Who is this Paul guy? He’s been Cathplic for what? A few years? And what’s with this Peter dude? Ten years ago he was some illiterate Jewish fisherman, now I’m supposed to listen to him?”

Taylor Marshall is no Peter or Paul. And therein lies the problem.

 

[gracepoole]

You might disagree that Catholicism is experiencing a bifurcation into two religions, or that the Novus Ordo is a “liturgical failure” but these are factual arguments.

No, they’re not. Saying it doesn’t make it so.

 

[gracepoole]

Simon and Saul were no Peter and Paul either.

You miss the point of the comparison. It is simply to illustrate the absurdity of claiming that Truth is dependent upon the length of time one spends as a Catholic.

No, you miss the point that Marshall often says things that are untrue and claims they’re Catholic teaching. He doesn’t always speak the truth.

 

[gracepoole]

They are arguments making claims that can be verified or refuted by facts. They are not mere opinions.

Maybe they are wrong, but they are arguments about facts.

So Marshall knows more about Catholicism than the Magisterium?

 

[JimmyDFG]

You might disagree that Catholicism is experiencing a bifurcation into two religions, or that the Novus Ordo is a “liturgical failure” but these are factual arguments.

If the Catholic Church is not Catholic, what religion is it, or is turning into?

 

[JimmyDFG]

hey are arguments making claims that can be verified or refuted by facts. They are not mere opinions.

What “facts” are you talking about? Are these facts verified by the Vatican (otherwise, its merely your opinion) and actually Catholic theologian’s??

 

[commenter]

if we do not point out the wrongs done by priests and bishops and popes, the world will think Catholicism is

Actually the secular media does a very, very thorough job of pointing out the wrongs.

But what do you mean by “we”? Does loyally watching a football team mean you should say “we” won the Super Bowl, when you haven’t touched a football in 25 years? Does watching lots of football on TV build up your muscles, or - more likely - tend to make you get out of shape?

 

[gracepoole]

Well there are two claims by Marshall. Lets deal with then separately.

1. That the Catholic Faith is bifurcating into two distinct religions.
2. That he (and other traditionalists) belong to the True one.

For now I’ll focus on claim 1. I believe it is absurd to claim it isn’t true. The claim itself in some ways proves the claim. If the Protestant breaks away from Rome, then it doesn’t matter what Rome wants, there are now two distinct religions. If the Orthodox cleric claims to be separated from Rome, it doesn’t matter what Rome wants, there are now two distinct religions.

And if someone leaves the Catholic Church, he’ll be part of a different religion. It will be his choice to leave – it will not be because the Catholic Church has split into two separate faiths.

If Marshall is accompanied by enough traditionalists in claiming there are now two “Catholic” ( asin claiming this name) faiths occupying the same space (a claim Pope Benedict XVI also made) then it is true merely by them claiming it.

Please provide a source for the bold text here.

And once again, if Marshall and his band of merry men decide to leave, they won’t be Catholic. They’ll be schismatics.

The traditionalists have doctrinal differences, different liturgical traditions, and very soon will recognize different authorities than the “Novus Ordo” Catholics (for lack of a better term. I myself consider myself a “traditionalist” despite never having actually attended a Latin Mass). That means the Catholic Church is currently going through the process of a schism. Forget who is right and wrong for the moment, the claim is merely that schism is occurring. Not has occurred entirely, but that it is merely beginning.

The Catholic Church is not “currently going through the process of schism.” If some decide to leave the Church, they will be in schism.

I say that the claim itself, supported by enough people, suffices to prove the claim. Just as the claim that fans of baseball exists because i am a fan of baseball is self supporting.

Baseball doesn’t exist because you’re a fan. It exists empirically. So does the Catholic Church, whether or not you’re a fan of the direction in which She’s moving.

 

[gracepoole]

gracepoole:

And if someone leaves the Catholic Church, he’ll be part of a different religion. It will be his choice to leave – it will not be because the Catholic Church has split into two separate faiths.

And Taylor Marshall will claim that it is the “modernists” that have left the Catholic Church anf thus placed themselves in schism with the True Faith.

He can think whatever he likes. It doesn’t make it true or valid.

The shism is factually beginning and shows no signs of ending. Personally, I suspect that some future Pope will condemn much of what has occurred in the last 50 to 60 years, will reverse mich of Vatican 2, and will probably even condemn some actions by the post concilliar Popes and may even posthumously judge and condemn the Popes themselves.

If that happens, you can take it to the bank. Marshall and all other lay commentators have zero authority to determine when and how schism occurs. Popes do.