Is it possible for a Religious person to go full circle and become atheist

[Neithan]

But don’t mistake any of that with church teaching. It’s 99% interpretation. There are relatively few de fide dogmas to the amount of apologetic verbiage [including my own posts; I’m a layman with no formal theology credentials].

 

[Freddy]

But don’t mistake any of that with church teaching. It’s 99% interpretation. There are relatively few de fide dogmas to the amount of apologetic verbiage.

The church has no problem with it whatsoever. If you want to believe the earth is a few thousand years old then the church will shrug its shoulders and effectively say ‘yeah, whatever - go for it’.

You wanted an example of discussions on CAF that are depressing in the way that members discuss science (for example). You’ve been given one.

 

[Neithan]

OK but does that exemplify “how lost the Church has become”? I’d guess the average Catholic didn’t know much more science or history a century, or a millennium ago.

 

[Freddy]

OK but does that exemplify “how lost the Church has become”? I’d guess the average Catholic didn’t know much more science or history a century, or a millennium ago.

I tend to what @aitapyh said. That the church is judged by it’s members. I judge the church by the action of it’s members. I judge the church by how it’s members interprets the church’s teachings. I judge the church by how it’s members dicuss ssm, homosexuality, abortion, contraception, science.

If I wanted to know what the church teaches then I’d read the catechism. If I want to know what Catholics think, I come here.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

I tend to what @aitapyh said. That the church is judged by it’s members. I judge the church by the action of it’s members. I judge the church by how it’s members interprets the church’s teachings. I judge the church by how it’s members dicuss ssm, homosexuality, abortion, contraception, science.

If I wanted to know what the church teaches then I’d read the catechism. If I want to know what Catholics think, I come here.

Then you are talking past each other since Catholics obviously know that the members aren’t reliable.

 

[Pattylt]

Then you are talking past each other since Catholics obviously know that the members aren’t reliable.

Then how are you supposed to evangelize? If someone came up to me to evangelize their faith, I’d assume they know what the churches teachings are and are reliable. If they aren’t reliable, then they have no business talking to me about their faith!

I agree with @Freddy, we all tend to judge any church by its members…initially, it’s all we have to go on.

I can’t remember who said it (Hitchens?) but they said that the surest way to make a man doubt his faith would be to send him to a seminary.

I hadn’t heard that one but I’ve often heard that the best way to turn atheist is to read the Bible.

The Christian response is that you have to read it a certain way…interpreted correctly. I reject the notion that the Bible, the central explanation of the Christian religion needs special interpretations to understand it. I think the Bible says what it means and means what it says without needing to be decoded.

 

[jeannetherese]

Hi Freddy,
I think you came in a little late to the conversation. A previous poster was referring to the positive media coverage given to the Catholic Church and I was at a loss, wondering where all this positive coverage resided. This segued to a mention that the Vatican had it’s own P.R. reps. which led to the response to which you are referring.
I would not expect any mainstream news media to be laboring under a sense of obligation to provide pro Catholic coverage and can find no evidence in my own reading of mainstream sources of a pro -Catholic orientation.
I think, you and I are in agreement here.
Best wishes,
jt

 

[jeannetherese]

That is hard indeed and I appreciate your sharing this experience. Sometimes it is referred to as spiritual dryness-Saints including Mother Teresa have experienced this and, from conversations, readings, and personal experience i have come to find others who have also experienced periods of dryness which have sometimes lasted for months or even many years.
The advice I’ve encountered tends to be keep on praying and/or offer it up which, to the hearer, may seem easier said than done.
Here’s an article (which I skimmed while looking for something on Saint John of the Cross whose “Dark Night of the Soul” speaks to the issue.

How the Saints Overcame Spiritual Dryness

O God, Thou art my God, I seek Thee ,my soul thirsts for Thee; my flesh faints for Thee, as in a dry and weary land where no water is. Psalm 63:1 We all have periods in our spiritual lives when praying is difficult, boring, or unfulfilling; we feel as if we’re just going through […]

catholicexchange.com

 

[Pattylt]

Believe me…I understand spiritual dryness very well. Perhaps those saints lasted longer than me but I’m not a saint and I gave over four years to desperately trying to fell or hear or sense God again. I found great peace and happiness when I walked away. God knows where I live, I’m not hard to find and should He decide to find me again, I’m ok with that. But, I gave up doing all the work. It wasn’t just spiritual dryness, it was spiritual silence. I realized I was alone, only talking to myself. I admire anyone that could persevere for years longer than I did.

 

[TheMarriedKnight]

Child abuse is not something that is unique to the Catholic church, it’s something happens anywhere we’re adults are charge of children. It’s a universal problem. The same goes to the other problems you mentioned in point 2.

 

[jeannetherese]

Well, I am sure glad that you have stuck it out with CAF because I very much value all of the ideas you bring to these threads. If I might pray for you and I hope you might pray for me.
Thank you for being here.
jt

 

[Pattylt]

Well, I am sure glad that you have stuck it out with CAF because I very much value all of the ideas you bring to these threads. If I might pray for you and I hope you might pray for me.
Thank you for being here.
jt

That’s very sweet of you! Of course you may pray for me, I’ve never objected to prayers…though I know some atheists that do, I’m not one of them. I’ve pretty much given up on prayers as all I find is the silence but I do still wish and hope for peoples struggles to be overcome and the health and peace of all people. It’s the atheist version of prayer, I guess! :hugs:

I enjoy being here on CAF. I’ve found many things we agree on and you are all very interesting! I came here to learn more about Catholicism and you have all succeeded mightily on that score! I’ve stayed because I find your faith fascinating…much more so than the average Protestants. I hope we have many more years of online friendship!

 

[EndTimes]

We’ve all heard or read about an atheist finding God and how inspirational that can be.

But is there any examples of folk going the other way ?

Satan is not an atheist, is he?

He knows God is…

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

Then how are you supposed to evangelize? If someone came up to me to evangelize their faith, I’d assume they know what the churches teachings are and are reliable. If they aren’t reliable, then they have no business talking to me about their faith!

The unqualified don’t evangelize in the first place.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

I tend to what @aitapyh said. That the church is judged by it’s members. I judge the church by the action of it’s members. I judge the church by how it’s members interprets the church’s teachings. I judge the church by how it’s members dicuss ssm, homosexuality, abortion, contraception, science.

If I wanted to know what the church teaches then I’d read the catechism. If I want to know what Catholics think, I come here.

Then you are talking past each other since Catholics obviously know that the members aren’t reliable.

I think that when you say that Catholics aren’t ‘reliable’ you might mean that what they believe (a position that they reach by interpreting what the church teaches) doesn’t align with what you believe.

 

[Freddy]

Hi Freddy,
I think you came in a little late to the conversation. A previous poster was referring to the positive media coverage given to the Catholic Church and I was at a loss, wondering where all this positive coverage resided. This segued to a mention that the Vatican had it’s own P.R. reps. which led to the response to which you are referring.
I would not expect any mainstream news media to be laboring under a sense of obligation to provide pro Catholic coverage and can find no evidence in my own reading of mainstream sources of a pro -Catholic orientation.
I think, you and I are in agreement here.
Best wishes,
jt

Gotcha. Apologies if I my confusion led to a misunderstanding.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

I think that when you say that Catholics aren’t ‘reliable’ you might mean that what they believe (a position that they reach by interpreting what the church teaches) doesn’t align with what you believe.

You’re wrong then because I mean that things not found in the Catechism or official documents are obviously added on and don’t actually represent the Church. There is some that is ambigious, but most of the unseemly behavior comes from somewhere else.

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

I think that when you say that Catholics aren’t ‘reliable’ you might mean that what they believe (a position that they reach by interpreting what the church teaches) doesn’t align with what you believe.

There is some that is ambigious, but most of the unseemly behavior comes from somewhere else.

The concept of a young earth is ambiguous. The concept of a first man is ambiguous. That leads to nonsensical denials of basic science. People make foolish remarks as Catholics. And what they say is not denied by the church.

Therein lies a problem. Not for me. I don’t care what anyone believes. But it’s a problem for the church.

 

[VanitasVanitatum]

The concept of a young earth is ambiguous. The concept of a first man is ambiguous. That leads to nonsensical denials of basic science. People make foolish remarks as Catholics . And what they say is not denied by the church.

Therein lies a problem. Not for me. I don’t care what anyone believes. But it’s a problem for the church.

The Church concerns itself with morality not science so I find no problem with it but you might have a different opinion.

 

[niceatheist]

The Church does claim that belief in God, and in particular the Christian formulation, is rational and logically derived. That’s not science, but rather a purer philosophical position, but still, I find the claim that it’s only interested in souls a tad hard to support. Why put so much effort into philosophical claims rooted in Neoplatonism if it doesn’t think it has something to say about how the universe works?