Is it right (or within the rights) of Catholic schools to expell unwed mothers?

[Tietjen]

Well, I’ve enjoyed the exchange of thoughts and ideas on the issue. It’s refreshing to know that there can be so many differing views on mortal sin, when to act, how to act, etc. and we can all still unite under the Catholic banner. One good Catholic poster even exclaimed that he/she didn’t care what some man made church or his/her priest had to say. Boy, times have changed indeed. I especially like the Catholics who seem to suggest that to expel a student is uncharitable. Then there are those who seem to feel that none of us have the right to judge anything. I wonder… do you think that those Catholics allow their children to hang out with gang members on the streets? I’m sure they must because to judge the actions of the gang members would be bad right? LOL, the double standard is both sad and laughable.

I’m afraid that I am going to retire from this thread now. I think everything that can be said has been said. To continue would be to repeat and I hate having to repeat myself. I wish all of you the best, and may none of you have to experience the situation that we have discussed here (regardless of the possibility of expulsion or not). God bless.

 

[perfectpeach]

I am going to have to say no. Catholic schools should NOT expel unwed mothers.

The reason being is that there are so many teens engaging in contraceptive premarital sex. Since they have not fallen pregnant, no one knows their sin. Teens who engage in non-contraceptive premarital sex are NO different than the other teen…God just decided to bless them with a child.

If we expel unwed mothers, we should also expel those who in engage in premarital sex and there is just simply no way to know unless one is caught.

 

[Tietjen]

I am going to have to say no. Catholic schools should NOT expel unwed mothers.

The reason being is that there are so many teens engaging in contraceptive premarital sex. Since they have not fallen pregnant, no one knows their sin. Teens who engage in non-contraceptive premarital sex are NO different than the other teen…God just decided to bless them with a child.

If we expel unwed mothers, we should also expel those who in engage in premarital sex and there is just simply no way to know unless one is caught.

I like that idea. Maybe if we used that in our criminal justice system as well, it would be a good thing. Since there are people who have gotten away with murder, perhaps we shouldn’t prosecute the ones we catch… it just wouldn’t be fair.

 

[Lujack]

I like that idea. Maybe if we used that in our criminal justice system as well, it would be a good thing. Since there are people who have gotten away with murder, perhaps we shouldn’t prosecute the ones we catch… it just wouldn’t be fair.*

But expelling unwed mothers encourages students to compound their sins with abortion and contraception; after all, the school can’t punish them any more than they already are.* Not only that, it is like throwing the sick out of the hospital.* These are the people who need close contact with the Church now more than anybody else.

 

[choy]

If you had bothered to quote, or read, the whole sentence, you would see that after having talked about the girl’s culpability, I said the school should probably check to see if this was an isolated incident, or if it reflects a bigger problem. In which case, perhaps there is some problem with their teaching/example/environment.

It is not at all uncommon for promiscuity to be common at girls schools, even Catholic ones. (In fact it is a bit of a cliche that Catholic school girls are the most “fun”.) Just because one girl got caught by getting pregnant doesn’t mean that she is the only one involved in such activity.

good point. by punishing those who get pregnant you’re only teaching others to practice safe sex, which is again against Church teaching. so as long as you use condoms and pills, you don’t get expelled. not a good lesson.

and again, expelling does not lead to any sort of correction to a person’s morals. its a punishment that tends to make people bitter because expulsion is also a big shame on you. and shame plays a big part in Filipino culture, well in fact is most Asian cultures i know. people do crazy things just to avoid the stigma of shame. so if a woman was already shamed by getting pregnant outside of marriage, she gets shamed again for getting expelled, this has a lot of potential for negative psychological effects on the young woman.

and usually getting pregnant is really the time when they would realize what a huge mistake they did. how many of us as teens do things that even know we know its dangerous or illegal or immoral or all three, but because we get away with it we think its okay. not just with sex but with a lot of things. so now that the consequences have caught up with the people engaging in this act, we should take this as an opportunity to get them on the right path instead of allowing them to further go down the wrong path.

if they trully realize their mistake and become repentant, shouldn’t the more we take care of them? wouldn’t Jesus do the same thing? to welcome back a lost sheep.

 

[choy]

I like that idea. Maybe if we used that in our criminal justice system as well, it would be a good thing. Since there are people who have gotten away with murder, perhaps we shouldn’t prosecute the ones we catch… it just wouldn’t be fair.

Please don’t try to win the argument by making ridiculous comparisons. It makes you look rather silly. God bless.

 

[Rascalking]

How in thw world would it be Christlike to expel someone who needs nothing but our love and support?

 

[paperwight]

Another thing to consider.

Imagine three girls, all pregnant, so remember, weeks, if not months, after the event, standing before the Principal of their school.

Girl A says she was jumped on by a stranger, she doesn’t know who he was. She was so shocked and ashamed that far from going to the police, she went home and bathed and burnt her clothes.
Girl B says that her uncle said that if she didn’t agree to sex, he’d do it to her little sister.
Girl C says that she and her boyfriend got carried away and went too far.

Does the Principal expel all three? She has no way of knowing if A nd B are telling the truth. On the other hand, it would be grossly unjust to expel them if their stories are true.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

Legally speaking Catholic schools can and cannot expell whoever they want. A Catholic school has the right to spell out its own code of conduct and punishments, that is true. But it must be specific and not vague. A few years ago a local Catholic high school expelled a boy because his hair was too long. He sued and won because there was nothing specific about hair in the handbook. The handbook is considered a legal agreement of sorts and so it also affords the students some rights based on its wording.

On this particular issue, I think it would be cruel to expell the unwed girl. In this day and age we don’t want to be put in the position of making girls’ feel the need to get an abortion or a shotgun wedding. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

I’ve seen some people talk about consequences for actions. A teenager having to care and raise a child by herself is indeed a consequence that she’ll have to live with. Her life is forever changed and she can no longer act/think like a kid but like a parent. To say she is avoiding consequences I think is a little short sighted.

Perhaps today’s Gospel is food for thought on this issue:

The Pharisees saw this and said to his disciples,
“Why does your teacher eat with tax collectors and sinners?”
He heard this and said,
“Those who are well do not need a physician, but the sick do.
Go and learn the meaning of the words,
I desire mercy, not sacrifice.
I did not come to call the righteous but sinners.”

 

[KingTheoden]

What I can tell is that the schools are asking for an exception so that they would be able to expel or otherwise discipline a student to whom this happens. It did not look like there was an active case requiring such.

It is a tough issue and I would be against expelling a girl; I tend to believe there are other pastoral solutions that can both make clear that sex outside of marriage is not acceptable, but in manner that does not hurt the girl.

I assume that if there were some punishment, the father would also have to accept it.

 

[Tietjen]

Please don’t try to win the argument by making ridiculous comparisons. It makes you look rather silly. God bless.

LOL. Touchee.

 

[Tietjen]

But expelling unwed mothers encourages students to compound their sins with abortion and contraception; after all, the school can’t punish them any more than they already are.*

So the school would be at fault should the girl decide to get an abortion?! Really?!

Not only that, it is like throwing the sick out of the hospital.* These are the people who need close contact with the Church now more than anybody else.

Agreed, but I think part of the problem is that you and so very many here are confusing the Church and a Catholic High school. The Church is NOT expelling the young woman, a school is. Secondly, why is it that you and so many others seem to believe that if girls can’t go to a Catholic high school they are more prone to get an abortion or use contraception? Her future (educationally) has been placed in far greater pearl from her sexual encounter(s) than it has been from school policy or the administration. She can still get a decent education outside of a Catholic school. It is NOT a right to go to Catholic school. It IS the right of a Catholic school to decide to remove a student (or faculty for that matter) that do not maintain a moral standard.

 

[Tietjen]

Please don’t try to win the argument by making ridiculous comparisons. It makes you look rather silly. God bless.

Your right of course Choy. Murder is a most serious sin, and everybody knows that sex outside of marriage is no big deal, right?

 

[choy]

What I can tell is that the schools are asking for an exception so that they would be able to expel or otherwise discipline a student to whom this happens. It did not look like there was an active case requiring such.

It is a tough issue and I would be against expelling a girl; I tend to believe there are other pastoral solutions that can both make clear that sex outside of marriage is not acceptable, but in manner that does not hurt the girl.

I assume that if there were some punishment, the father would also have to accept it.

as a Filipino who grew up in Catholic schools from pre-school all the way to post-graduate studies, i can tell you that this has happened time and again. that is why the Catholic schools are asking for the exemption.

funny though that i recall one woman who got pregnant in post-graduate and she never got married. she never got expelled. so business students of Catholic universities are exempt from this rule while highschool and college students are? well, this is for another discussion. just popped into my head now

 

[choy]

Your right of course Choy. Murder is a most serious sin, and everybody knows that sex outside of marriage is no big deal, right?

those are your words not mine. funny i am forbidden by you to make an analogy but you can

 

[choy]

So the school would be at fault should the girl decide to get an abortion?! Really?!

Agreed, but I think part of the problem is that you and so very many here are confusing the Church and a Catholic High school. The Church is NOT expelling the young woman, a school is. Secondly, why is it that you and so many others seem to believe that if girls can’t go to a Catholic high school they are more prone to get an abortion or use contraception? Her future (educationally) has been placed in far greater pearl from her sexual encounter(s) than it has been from school policy or the administration. She can still get a decent education outside of a Catholic school. It is NOT a right to go to Catholic school. It IS the right of a Catholic school to decide to remove a student (or faculty for that matter) that do not maintain a moral standard.

lets see, who runs Catholic schools? priests, nuns, religious brothers. and from where o they get the values that they are protecting by this rule?

thats why they call it CATHOLIC school

if the school is not a representative of the Church, they why call it a Catholic school? don’t our parents send us there to earn a Catholic-centered education?

yes, the woman is not expelled from the Chruch but only from a school. but how would you know from this person’s eyes that its as good as being thrown out of the Church? if the religious people (priests, nuns, religious brothers) of the school turned their backs on her, do you think she’ll find comfort in the priests in the Church? the clothes they wear represent not only themselves and/or the school, but the Church as a whole. if a cop beat you up will you go to another cop and tell them what happened? wouldn’t you naturally be afraid and mistrusting of all cops from that point on?

expulsion is sending the wrong message. we’re telling them that because they sinned they need to be punished and this punishment is permanent. plus there’s a lot of shame in it.

 

[NewAgeCatholic]

What happens in the Philippines should stay in the Philippines. They adopt the Catholic religion for the most part. They circumcise their males by age 13 from what I’ve read here in talking about that issue the past day or so. The pacific islanders, gawd bless 'em… have their own practices and it’s crazy for us to comment or judge on those any more than we should judge the radical Muslim behavior. Just leave them alone and pray for them. I wish everyone the best and I hope no humans are harmed. I wish they would stop eating dogs and cats. .

 

[CradleCath]

It absolutely IS the right of the school to expell pregnant girls (& the boys who impregnate them, if they attend a Catholic school & can be identified). The Catholic Church teaches that sex outside of marriage is a sin not a “mistake” & the pupils & their parents know the rule going in. To even suggest that a Catholic girl or her parents will consider abortion in order to ‘stay in school’ is ridiculous. No true Catholic considers abortion an option at all, certainly not so that one may graduate from a certain school.

In today’s world, people need to realize at an early age, that their actions have consequences, or as my Father used to say…“If you’re gonna’ dance the dance, you’ll have to pay the band”. A pregnant high schooler, should be able to count on her family for love & support, her friends, & even the individual teachers at her school if they are family friends. However, for these same people to accept her actions **without censure **, would be asking for them to care nothing for her soul. Instead of the question “does the Catholic school have the right”, the question should be…has the school/her parents/etc., let her down? Did they not equip her with the moral teachings, the prayer life, the character to say NO?

I’m no monster & my heart goes out to any girl who is pregnant in high school. However, I don’t think it would be a good thing to have this girl confiding in her school mates about her physical & mental experience during pregnancy. There’s also the chance that her classmates will think that it would be “cool” to be like ‘Jane’ who is pregnant, getting all of this attention & will soon have a new baby.

And after the child is born, & the Mother is still weak & tired from the birth, she shouldn’t be attending any school. She needs to take care of herself & her new baby, get a GED & a job. As the child grows older, she could attend college at night or online. This may sound cruel, but…as I said before…there are consequences to every choice we make & those who learn this at a young age will be better off in the long run.

 

[Lujack]

So the school would be at fault should the girl decide to get an abortion?! Really?!

The school would not be entirely at fault, but it would have failed to prevent it.* And have a missed a fine opportunity for a pro-life lesson.

Agreed, but I think part of the problem is that you and so very many here are confusing the Church and a Catholic High school. The Church is NOT expelling the young woman, a school is. Secondly, why is it that you and so many others seem to believe that if girls can’t go to a Catholic high school they are more prone to get an abortion or use contraception? Her future (educationally) has been placed in far greater pearl from her sexual encounter(s) than it has been from school policy or the administration. She can still get a decent education outside of a Catholic school. It is NOT a right to go to Catholic school. It IS the right of a Catholic school to decide to remove a student (or faculty for that matter) that do not maintain a moral standard.

Just because it isn’t a right doesn’t excuse us from doing what is right, and what is right is to rally up and provide support.* The baby is a severe, life-changing consequence.* The mother is going to need a lot of help, and the school can certainly provide it.* As I said before, it is also a fine opportunity to provide a pro-life message.And you know as well as I do that going to a Catholic school puts one in contact with the Church and with priests far more often than a public school does.* The fact is that the young lady would be kicked out of Catholic school at the very moment that she needs it the most!* Public schools wouldn’t provide the same sort of moral support and guidance that Catholic schools would!Sure, it is within the rights of the Catholic school to do so, but it is also within my rights to snub the tax collector.* Its a hospital for sinners, and you don’t kick the sick out of the hospital for getting sick.

 

[Tietjen]

Just because it isn’t a right doesn’t excuse us from doing what is right, and what is right is to rally up and provide support.* The baby is a severe, life-changing consequence.* The mother is going to need a lot of help, and the school can certainly provide it.*

You are proving my point. The school is NOT the church. Shall the teachers take turns babysitting while the girl is in class? What do you suggest that the school should do to help the mother beyond doing what it is supposed to do… provide an education. The girl can seek help from the Church, family, friends, Catholic Charities, the state, etc.

As I said before, it is also a fine opportunity to provide a pro-life message.And you know as well as I do that going to a Catholic school puts one in contact with the Church and with priests far more often than a public school does.* The fact is that the young lady would be kicked out of Catholic school at the very moment that she needs it the most!* Public schools wouldn’t provide the same sort of moral support and guidance that Catholic schools would!

But many do supply day care for students with babies and the Church is STILL there as is her many social services to assist the young woman and her child.

Sure, it is within the rights of the Catholic school to do so, but it is also within my rights to snub the tax collector.*

Not sure I understand what you mean.

Its a hospital for sinners, and you don’t kick the sick out of the hospital for getting sick.

NO… IT’S A HIGH SCHOOL FOR STUDENTS TRYING TO GET AN EDUCATION! Let the Church be your hospital.