Is it sinful to vote for Bernie Sanders?

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I’m not going to pretend to have read through all 12 pages of this thread. So, forgive me if this has been stated elsewhere. For those who are considering supporting a candidate (Sanders, Clinton, frankly Trump) who support abortion, I’d love for you to respond to the following thought experiment.

Part of the reason many are comfortable supporting candidates who support abortion is because we are distant from it. What I mean by that is, we don’t see it everyday. We know it happens, we might even acknowledge that it’s bad. Heck, we might even march on Washington, demanding that it stop. But, we don’t transfer that over to the voting booth because at the end of the day, we just sort of throw our hands up in the air, and say, “Well, I guess that’s just the way it is. We can’t fix it. I’ll just ignore it.”

So, here’s the thought experiment. Imagine if a candidate, Sanders in the case of this thread, were not merely in favor of abortion. Imagine if he/she were in favor of the legal protection of killing ALL children, under the age of two years. After all, they too can be a burden for their parents. They cost money. They make you get up in the middle of the night. They don’t really DO anything, other than eat, sleep, and get their diapers changed. They are completely helpless aside from their parents. So, this candidate says, it stands to reason that it should be a parent’s choice to kill their child up to the age of two years old.

Would you support such a candidate? What if you agreed with him on every other issue? What if you were right in lockstep with him on health care? Immigration? Capital punishment? Taxes? Education? Defense spending? Security? How to deal with ISIS? What if you checked off every single box with this candidate. Would you overlook his stance that we should be legally allowed to kill children up to two years old? If yes, may God have mercy on your soul. Because that’s simply barbaric. It’s my sincere hope that all of us can recognize that taking such a stance should be an automatic disqualifier. Being right on every issue under the sun should not be enough to justify voting for a monster who thinks it should be legal to kill two year old children.

What then, I ask you, is the difference between this hypothetical candidate, and someone who supports abortion? I would suggest to you that there is no difference. Both practices are barbaric, and unfitting for a civil society. If someone cannot pledge to defend unborn life, then that candidate is unfit to receive the vote of a faithful Catholic. Period. End of story. I don’t care what else he or she believes. This issue is so grave, such a gross violation of human rights, that to be on the wrong side of it is to render oneself unqualified for public office.

May God have mercy on our souls for continuing to put these people in power, rationalizing it away for any number of reasons. I’ll be quite clear on this…no candidate, Republican, Democrat or otherwise, who supports abortion will EVER receive my vote. None.
 
The simple fact alone that the next President can likely choose 3 new Justices for the Supreme Court is sufficient reason to say - **do not even think about it **(though it is not the only reason!!)
This!!! times 100!!!

Bernie Sanders has said that he will instruct the USSC justices how to decide. He does not believe in the separation of powers and wants to create a court that functions in the same manner as a federal department (like HHS or the DOL) - that is, at the pleasure of the President. That is truly frightening, no matter how you feel about the death penalty.
 
This!!! times 100!!!

Bernie Sanders has said that he will instruct the USSC justices how to decide. He does not believe in the separation of powers and wants to create a court that functions in the same manner as a federal department (like HHS or the DOL) - that is, at the pleasure of the President. That is truly frightening, no matter how you feel about the death penalty.
The SC justices aren’t going to allow themselves to be “instructed” by Bernie Sanders or anyone else, so how Sanders thinks about that matter is moot.
 
The SC justices aren’t going to allow themselves to be “instructed” by Bernie Sanders or anyone else, so how Sanders thinks about that matter is moot.
Not really. The next President may get the opportunity to appoint up to three SC justices. If he/she selects justices who see the USSC in the same vein as Bernie Sanders, they most likely will “allow” such instruction.

There are a lot of people out there who feel the Constitution is out-dated and are quite amenable to wholesale change or just ignoring some of the provisions, such as the separation of powers.
 
He wants to raise taxes on EVERYONE…and that will HURT the poor the most
 
It really bothers me when Catholics vote for pro choice candidates… I have talked to clergy who have tried to justify this. Is God pro choice?
 
The fact that Sanders is as popular as he is really shows what a terrible job our education system in this country has done.
 
Is it sinful to vote for Bernie Sanders?

Ya…

Next question …moving on…😉

(could not resist) 😃

But yes actually my conscience would inform me that it would be a sin if I were to do such (not that I would). For there is so much at stake and the Pro Life issue is of great great importance…and we have many who are running who are Pro Life and also with other views that are in keeping with the Faith (such as on Marriage which is of extreme importance)…

The simple fact alone that the next President can likely choose 3 new Justices for the Supreme Court is sufficient reason to say - do not even think about it (though it is not the only reason!!)

(for actual and more detailed information on voting as a Catholic see fromCatholic Answers catholic.com/search/content/no%20negotiables )
 
I’m not going to pretend to have read through all 12 pages of this thread. So, forgive me if this has been stated elsewhere. For those who are considering supporting a candidate (Sanders, Clinton, frankly Trump) who support abortion, I’d love for you to respond to the following thought experiment.

Part of the reason many are comfortable supporting candidates who support abortion is because we are distant from it. What I mean by that is, we don’t see it everyday. We know it happens, we might even acknowledge that it’s bad. Heck, we might even march on Washington, demanding that it stop. But, we don’t transfer that over to the voting booth because at the end of the day, we just sort of throw our hands up in the air, and say, “Well, I guess that’s just the way it is. We can’t fix it. I’ll just ignore it.”
**
So, here’s the thought experiment. Imagine if a candidate, Sanders in the case of this thread, were not merely in favor of abortion. Imagine if he/she were in favor of the legal protection of killing ALL children, under the age of two years. ** After all, they too can be a burden for their parents. They cost money. They make you get up in the middle of the night. They don’t really DO anything, other than eat, sleep, and get their diapers changed. They are completely helpless aside from their parents. So, this candidate says, it stands to reason that it should be a parent’s choice to kill their child up to the age of two years old.

Would you support such a candidate? What if you agreed with him on every other issue? What if you were right in lockstep with him on health care? Immigration? Capital punishment? Taxes? Education? Defense spending? Security? How to deal with ISIS? What if you checked off every single box with this candidate. Would you overlook his stance that we should be legally allowed to kill children up to two years old? If yes, may God have mercy on your soul. Because that’s simply barbaric. It’s my sincere hope that all of us can recognize that taking such a stance should be an automatic disqualifier. Being right on every issue under the sun should not be enough to justify voting for a monster who thinks it should be legal to kill two year old children.

What then, I ask you, is the difference between this hypothetical candidate, and someone who supports abortion? I would suggest to you that there is no difference. Both practices are barbaric, and unfitting for a civil society. If someone cannot pledge to defend unborn life, then that candidate is unfit to receive the vote of a faithful Catholic. Period. End of story. I don’t care what else he or she believes. This issue is so grave, such a gross violation of human rights, that to be on the wrong side of it is to render oneself unqualified for public office.

May God have mercy on our souls for continuing to put these people in power, rationalizing it away for any number of reasons. I’ll be quite clear on this…no candidate, Republican, Democrat or otherwise, who supports abortion will EVER receive my vote. None.
That would actually be the next logical step, along with euthanasia of the old, the disabled, the terminal, and others who are inconvenient. Peter Singer, as head of the ethics department (!) of Princeton University, has proposed exactly that. Parents should have the option of deciding to terminate the child for a time after birth, not just before birth. It’s not far fetched at all. And of course, killing of the elderly and the seriously ill is already being done with legal approval in some places.

When the issue arises, the same point will be made–you people just care about the unborn, the newborn, the elderly, the terminally ill! There are a lot more issues than that to be concerned about!
 
And I can say the same regarding Trump.
I don’t think anyone would disagree with you. While there are many who support these two on real political reasons, there are many more who would fall into the category of “low information voters” who support either Trump or Sanders. They are two sides of the same extremist coin - they appeal to emotion and conveniently ignore the Constitution.
 
I’m not going to pretend to have read through all 12 pages of this thread. So, forgive me if this has been stated elsewhere. For those who are considering supporting a candidate (Sanders, Clinton, frankly Trump) who support abortion, I’d love for you to respond to the following thought experiment.

Part of the reason many are comfortable supporting candidates who support abortion is because we are distant from it. What I mean by that is, we don’t see it everyday. We know it happens, we might even acknowledge that it’s bad. Heck, we might even march on Washington, demanding that it stop. But, we don’t transfer that over to the voting booth because at the end of the day, we just sort of throw our hands up in the air, and say, “Well, I guess that’s just the way it is. We can’t fix it. I’ll just ignore it.”

So, here’s the thought experiment. Imagine if a candidate, Sanders in the case of this thread, were not merely in favor of abortion. Imagine if he/she were in favor of the legal protection of killing ALL children, under the age of two years. After all, they too can be a burden for their parents. They cost money. They make you get up in the middle of the night. They don’t really DO anything, other than eat, sleep, and get their diapers changed. They are completely helpless aside from their parents. So, this candidate says, it stands to reason that it should be a parent’s choice to kill their child up to the age of two years old.

Would you support such a candidate? What if you agreed with him on every other issue? What if you were right in lockstep with him on health care? Immigration? Capital punishment? Taxes? Education? Defense spending? Security? How to deal with ISIS? What if you checked off every single box with this candidate. Would you overlook his stance that we should be legally allowed to kill children up to two years old? If yes, may God have mercy on your soul. Because that’s simply barbaric. It’s my sincere hope that all of us can recognize that taking such a stance should be an automatic disqualifier. Being right on every issue under the sun should not be enough to justify voting for a monster who thinks it should be legal to kill two year old children.

What then, I ask you, is the difference between this hypothetical candidate, and someone who supports abortion? I would suggest to you that there is no difference. Both practices are barbaric, and unfitting for a civil society. If someone cannot pledge to defend unborn life, then that candidate is unfit to receive the vote of a faithful Catholic. Period. End of story. I don’t care what else he or she believes. This issue is so grave, such a gross violation of human rights, that to be on the wrong side of it is to render oneself unqualified for public office.

May God have mercy on our souls for continuing to put these people in power, rationalizing it away for any number of reasons. I’ll be quite clear on this…no candidate, Republican, Democrat or otherwise, who supports abortion will EVER receive my vote. None.
Bolding mine - Thank you for such a wonderful well thought out post. Some on this thread have claimed many of us are only pro-birth, not pro-life, but yet they state they will vote for a man who is one of the most pro-abortion candidates out there.
The SC justices aren’t going to allow themselves to be “instructed” by Bernie Sanders or anyone else, so how Sanders thinks about that matter is moot.
And you came to this conclusion how? SCOTUS is a panel of 9 justices appointed for life by the president. If a president can fill enough spots with liberal justices who think like he does, then he’s influenced the SCOTUS more than you can ever know.
He wants to raise taxes on EVERYONE…and that will HURT the poor the most
And yet he’s convinced so many that he is trying to “help” them
The fact that Sanders is as popular as he is really shows what a terrible job our education system in this country has done.
Yes, most of his supporters are uneducated, those with little to no knowledge of how economics work in a capitalist society, and for the most part non-tax payers, just tax filers.
When the issue arises, the same point will be made–you people just care about the unborn, the newborn, the elderly, the terminally ill! There are a lot more issues than that to be concerned about!
There are many issues to be concerned with, economics, ISIS, world relationships, immigration, big government, entitlement ideology, but we can’t just dismiss the pro-life issue from the equation.
I don’t think anyone would disagree with you. While there are many who support these two on real political reasons, there are many more who would fall into the category of “low information voters” who support either Trump or Sanders. They are two sides of the same extremist coin - they appeal to emotion and conveniently ignore the Constitution.
Love this. I am by no means a Trump supporter although I believe he does have the capability to be president and fix a lot of things that are wrong in this country. He just can’t seem to let go of his ego long enough to be a team player, a world political leader. I see Hillary as similar to Trump in this. She may have the knowledge to be president but is too caught up in her own lies and criminal behavior to be trustworthy.
 
No, not more than I would ever know, Horton. I know Sanders would choose those who think like he does. I just said he wouldn’t be able to “instruct” them. You’re a teacher. You know how important word choice is.

I agree with you about Trump and Clinton. Both are so caught up in their own narcissistic power plays that neither would govern correctly. Yet those are our two front runners.

It boggles the mind, and it does erode my faith in the American public. Regarding Trump, people want someone different. I understand that. I want someone different, too, but I want someone with a sense of decorum and someone who carries himself with dignity.

And I’m not dismissing the pro-life issue from the equation, only agreeing that we have so much more to consider. Now that abortion is legal, people want to go down the slippery slope to making euthanasia legal, marijuana (which has already made gains), and a host of other evils.
 
That would actually be the next logical step, along with euthanasia of the old, the disabled, the terminal, and others who are inconvenient. Peter Singer, as head of the ethics department (!) of Princeton University, has proposed exactly that. Parents should have the option of deciding to terminate the child for a time after birth, not just before birth. It’s not far fetched at all. And of course, killing of the elderly and the seriously ill is already being done with legal approval in some places.

When the issue arises, the same point will be made–you people just care about the unborn, the newborn, the elderly, the terminally ill! There are a lot more issues than that to be concerned about!
We’re already going down that slippery slope. Euthanasia is legal in a handful of states. Some of the elderly probably consider it when they feel they are being a burden to their family. Sad!
 
We’re already going down that slippery slope. Euthanasia is legal in a handful of states. Some of the elderly probably consider it when they feel they are being a burden to their family. Sad!
Yes, and it is generally the same ones who minimize the importance of abortion as a voting issue who will minimize euthanasia and post-birth abortion as a voting issue. Pro-life voters who oppose abortion, infanticide, euthanasia will be minimized as single issue voters. My point is that our acsquiescence in abortion has already led us down this path to becoming a society of death. It’s time to stop the deadly trend.
 
No, not more than I would ever know, Horton. I know Sanders would choose those who think like he does. I just said he wouldn’t be able to “instruct” them. You’re a teacher. You know how important word choice is.

I agree with you about Trump and Clinton. Both are so caught up in their own narcissistic power plays that neither would govern correctly. Yet those are our two front runners.

It boggles the mind, and it does erode my faith in the American public. Regarding Trump, people want someone different. I understand that. I want someone different, too, but I want someone with a sense of decorum and someone who carries himself with dignity.

And I’m not dismissing the pro-life issue from the equation, only agreeing that we have so much more to consider. Now that abortion is legal, people want to go down the slippery slope to making euthanasia legal, marijuana (which has already made gains), and a host of other evils.
I’m not a teacher, I was a social worker program manager who had the responsibility of supervising our education department in the prison I worked in. I hired teachers to teach.

Don’t kid yourself that Sanders wouldn’t be able to influence the SCOTUS if he has an opportunity to place three justices. Anyone who votes for a vocal pro-abortion candidate needs to see their priest.
 
I’m not a teacher, I was a social worker program manager who had the responsibility of supervising our education department in the prison I worked in. I hired teachers to teach.

Don’t kid yourself that Sanders wouldn’t be able to influence the SCOTUS if he has an opportunity to place three justices. Anyone who votes for a vocal pro-abortion candidate needs to see their priest.
Apologies on getting your occupation wrong, and thank you for the correction, Horton.
 
How is it Christian to charge people money for healthcare? I’ll save your life… if you pay me well enough.

I’m pretty sure taxes are a necessary part of every government.
Healthcare (aka: health insurance, aka to this discussion) is not a natural God-given right, especially “free” health insurance provided by the theft of monies through taxation by the federal government. It is no more a right than is a job, or travel. The right to life in the Declaration of Independence does not mean that you should have free healthcare. The federal government’s primary purpose is for national defense, not the wholesale intrusion into every aspect of my health.

Go ahead and vote Bernie if you so like, but I warn you that you should study what happens to socialized countries before you make that mistake. Our country was founded on liberty and personal responsibility, not central planning.
 
Healthcare should not supercede basic human rights as a priority, but I have trouble hearing a Catholic call legitimate taxation a “theft of monies.”

Maybe unwisely spent monies you could argue, but the Church teaches that governmental authority is legitimate and that they don’t just have a right to tax, but that we have a moral obligation to pay taxes [CCC 2240].

Again, I’m not saying it’s unCatholic to oppose a policy, even a policy like universal health care. There may be perfectly just arguments to hold such a view. It does seem odd to imply taxation is unjust and immoral by likening it to theft. It seems like excessive liberalism that crept into the Church to say so.
 
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