Is it sinful to vote for Bernie Sanders?

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Lily_Bernans said:
I’ve got no problem with higher taxes, either if it would mean securing the life of unborn babies, but abortion is legal in the US and I don’t believe any presidential candidate is going to change that. Unfortunately, most of the US supports abortion, and I think it’s here to stay for a long time. I don’t want it, too, but we have to be realistic.
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Most of the US does not support abortion. Most of us don’t even realize it’s legal for all nine months.
This argument sounds very much like the ones about slavery before the Civil War. “You may not like it, so just don’t own a slave. We have to be realistic.”
 
Confiteor_Deo said:
I think the serious moral reasons that would justify supporting a candidate that is pro-choice or favors homosexual “marriage” have to outweigh or at least be equal to the gravity of those two sins. Considering how grave abortion is, compounded by the evil of homosexual “marriage”, this does not apply in the case of Bernie Sanders and the moral restriction of support for him remains.
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And the bishops certainly give you the right to make such a conclusion. As they clearly recognize political choices rest with each individual and their informed consciences. And the conscience as CCC clearly states, is where we each are alone with God.

And many agree with you. Yet many others read the bishops’ guide as well and come to a different conclusion.

As I think Lily Bernans said somewhere back there, and I may be paraphrasing here, but vote your conscience and everything will be fine. 👍

God bless and many blessings!
 
Viki63 said:
Most of the US does not support abortion. Most of us don’t even realize it’s legal for all nine months.
This argument sounds very much like the ones about slavery before the Civil War. “You may not like it, so just don’t own a slave. We have to be realistic.”
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After the first trimester, states can and have placed restrictions on abortion.
 
jschwartz said:
Bernie is a prophetic figure for our time, calling us to greater awareness and action of the needs of our country.

Today’s Republican Party has no regard for human life. It has regard for zygotes and blastocysts, but none for the nutrition, educational, developmental, and social needs of children. Abortion is a tragic decision in many cases, but in other cases, it is the lesser of two evils, and is sadly necessary where a pregnancy is incompatible with life in its broadest conception.
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Absolutely. I’m Catholic, but I have to say, my fellow Catholics tend to be right-to-be-born not right-to-life.
 
Viki63 said:
Most of the US does not support abortion. Most of us don’t even realize it’s legal for all nine months.
This argument sounds very much like the ones about slavery before the Civil War. “You may not like it, so just don’t own a slave. We have to be realistic.”
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Oh, now, I teach at a college. You’re not going to convince me of that. Short of someone living in the backwoods who never comes out of said woods, everyone in the US knows abortion is legal. I know little kids who know it and they aren’t even quite sure what it is.

I don’t approve of abortion myself, but I know plenty of Catholics who do and plenty who have had abortions.
 
Sy_Noe said:
Please please Bernie, work to raise my taxes so I don’t have to pay high monthly premiums to private insurance companies and higher deductibles.
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Mine, too. I’d rather pay more in taxes than see my insurance premiums go up again.
 
adrift said:
strawman what I said was that they weren’t “good” Christians and they are not. It is the job of the Church to convert them to being good Christians.
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Wow. That’s quite a statement you made there. They may not be good Catholics but you must have quite a power to pass judgement as to how good of Christians they are based on their understandings. Not sure if I should :bowdown: or :eek: On second thought I am sure.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
Absolutely. I’m Catholic, but I have to say, my fellow Catholics tend to be right-to-be-born not right-to-life.
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It seems to me that all other life issues are predicated on the right to be born. If one isn’t allowed to live, the standard of living into which he isn’t being born into really doesn’t make any difference.

It’s noble and worthy to suffer for the impoverished who can not afford healthcare. It’s an act of charity to work for an end to the death penalty and end of life care that honors human dignity. None of those would be up for discussion if any particular individual being helped had been aborted, however.

It’s like working to save your front porch while your house is fully engulfed. Porches are wonderful, but you don’t have them without a house to put them on.
 
Sy_Noe said:
That is a big problem I see with the Republican Party. When they speak of family values they seem to mainly be referring to abortion and SSM. But there is so much to family values. The many needs you mentioned. Guaranteed family leave when a couple brings a newborn into their family would be another. Healthcare as a right for everyone another. Higher wages. And so much more constitute family values.
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And there’s so much more to being pro-life than just being anti-abortion.

I do not believe in paid maternity leave, though. I do believe workers need to be at work. I do believe in unpaid maternity leave for the mother only. No reason dad has to be at home, too. Both of my parents went back to work the day after I was born, and I turned out fine. Same for my twin brother.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
Oh, now, I teach at a college. You’re not going to convince me of that. Short of someone living in the backwoods who never comes out of said woods, everyone in the US knows abortion is legal. I know little kids who know it and they aren’t even quite sure what it is.

I don’t approve of abortion myself, but I know plenty of Catholics who do and plenty who have had abortions.
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A. The poster you quoted said most “don’t know it’s legal for all nine months”–not that they don’t know abortion remains, tragically, legal in our nation.

B. If one is cocooned in American academia, I’ve no doubt they’d believe most of the nation is prochoice. That doesn’t make it so.

C. It doesn’t make a bit of difference if EVERY Catholic approves of abortion, and ALL the female ones had ten, each. What Our Lord thinks about it is plain enough and is certainly the benchmark we should be concerned with.
 
Tablefor9 said:
A. The poster you quoted said most “don’t know it’s legal for all nine months”–not that they don’t know abortion remains, tragically, legal in our nation.

B. If one is cocooned in American academia, I’ve no doubt they’d believe most of the nation is prochoice. That doesn’t make it so.

C. It doesn’t make a bit of difference if EVERY Catholic approves of abortion, and ALL the female ones had ten, each. What Our Lord thinks about it is plain enough and is certainly the benchmark we should be concerned with.
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I’m not “cocooned,” The word choice actually made me laugh. I volunteer at a homeless shelter, at my parish, and I’m also a hospice worker. I also have a second job as a writer of PR for the medical and dental professions, so I have to be aware off the world. In my 20a, I traveled to every continent except Antarctica, so “cocooned” is not a word that would every apply to me in any way right now. Maybe in 40-50 years.
 
Tablefor9 said:
It seems to me that all other life issues are predicated on the right to be born. If one isn’t allowed to live, the standard of living into which he isn’t being born into really doesn’t make any difference.

It’s noble and worthy to suffer for the impoverished who can not afford healthcare. It’s an act of charity to work for an end to the death penalty and end of life care that honors human dignity. None of those would be up for discussion if any particular individual being helped had been aborted, however.

It’s like working to save your front porch while your house is fully engulfed. Porches are wonderful, but you don’t have them without a house to put them on.
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How many euthanasia threads do we have here? None. How many on end-of-life issues? None. How many people are arguing about choosing a president based on anything other than abortion? Very few.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
How many euthanasia threads do we have here? None. How many on end-of-life issues? None. How many people are arguing about choosing a president based on anything other than abortion? Very few.
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I think the answer would be that a minority of people on this board (for the most part seeking Catholic or Christian) favor euthanasia passionately enough to begin a debate about it. As for why it’s not a topic in relation to the election–no one, not the candidates, nor their handlers, nor the media, have made it part of the larger discussion. That doesn’t mean that those who are vocal about the work of combating abortion are fiddling while the Titanic sinks, caring nothing for the other issues.

The vast majority of pro-life people I know aren’t one trick ponies; it’s a caricature to suggest this.
 
Lily_Bernans said:
I’m not “cocooned,” The word choice actually made me laugh. I volunteer at a homeless shelter, at my parish, and I’m also a hospice worker. I also have a second job as a writer of PR for the medical and dental professions, so I have to be aware off the world. In my 20a, I traveled to every continent except Antarctica, so “cocooned” is not a word that would every apply to me in any way right now. Maybe in 40-50 years.
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I’m glad you had a laugh over it. I can imagine the experiences you describe have shaped your thinking and your priorities in complex ways. As the sister of two hospice nurses, thank you for what you do.

Surely we can agree that without the basic right to live, discussions over dignified death and access to safety-net programs are nothing more than an academic exercise?
 
Tablefor9 said:
I think the answer would be that a minority of people on this board (for the most part seeking Catholic or Christian) favor euthanasia passionately enough to begin a debate about it. As for why it’s not a topic in relation to the election–no one, not the candidates, nor their handlers, nor the media, have made it part of the larger discussion. That doesn’t mean that those who are vocal about the work of combating abortion are fiddling while the Titanic sinks, caring nothing for the other issues.

The vast majority of pro-life people I know aren’t one trick ponies; it’s a caricature to suggest this.
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Thank you for the explanation about other threads.

I’m glad most of the Catholics you know are sincerely pro-life. Most of the ones I know are just pro-birth sad to say.
 
Sy_Noe said:
Please please Bernie, work to raise my taxes so I don’t have to pay high monthly premiums to private insurance companies and higher deductibles.
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:p. C’mon, man! The private insurance market only had 200 years to get it right. Give 'em a few more decades before you fix it.
 
Sy_Noe said:
Thanks for this. The Golden Rule, social justice, and the effect of climate change on the environment. It’s not surprising to me then that he would greatly admire Pope Francis. Sounds to me like Bernie pretty much gets it.
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I’m hoping Bernie can edge out Clinton in Iowa! 👍
 
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