Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation?
- Status
S
SIA
Guest
Yes we are supposed to obey him but not in so far as fearing for our salvation but to be in harmony with him. It is he who transforms us, not ourselves.
S
sodak
Guest
Try re-reading your Bible. Some things St. Paul said might surprise you - working out salvation in fear and trembling. Some things Jesus said might also surprise you - something along the lines of calling me “Lord, Lord”, but not helping the poor, widows, orphans, etc.
The Church is the Pillar of Truth. Reading the Catechism might surprise you.
S
SIA
Guest
Maybe you need to read the entire text and all of Paul’s Epistles. Ultimately we are to be certain of our salvation and just a thought, didn’t Paul say to be absent from our body is to be present with Christ? Just a thought. And FYI, I have read the Catechism and in some instances in great detail. I was a devout Catholic for decades. You should watch who you take for a fool. And one last thing, the church is the pillar of truth and what gives us this information? The Scriptures!
M
moondweller
Guest
Positionally, yes. Experientially, no. It requires spiritual growth, not just a decision to not sin. But the day will come when all true believers will instantly be like Christ:1 John 3:1-3 “See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God; and {such} we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him. Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is. And everyone who has this hope {fixed} on Him purifies himself, just as He is pure.”
Col 3:1-4 “Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God. Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth. For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ, who is our life, is revealed, then you also will be revealed with Him in glory.”
This isn’t just some spiritual pipe dream. It’s the true believer’s reality being no longer “in Adam” (dead in trespasses and sins), but now and forever (alive) “in Christ.”
C
cyberjacques
Guest
Sorry for the long post. This is a tricky question. Jesus said that nobody comes to the Father except through him. Pretty specific. But the way the question is phrased is misleading, so I voted no. Being a member of the Catholic Church is not absolutely necessary for salvation, nor does it guarantee one their salvation. But it does make it a whole lot easier to stay in accordance with the will of God. The early church fathers had quite a bit to say on the fact that everyone, whether they acknowledge it or not, is connected to the Church, and part of it, through the communion of saints. Therefore, any salvation they receive comes to them from Jesus through the Church. But phrasing it as the Catholic Church being the only way to salvation is misleading. The thief on the cross next to Jesus asked for forgiveness, and it was granted to him by Jesus himself. But he was not Catholic.
Jesus, on the other hand, is absolutely essential for salvation. But that doesn’t mean that you have to believe in him or even be aware of him to have a chance at salvation. Jesus died for everyone’s sins, not just the believers. He even asked his Father to forgive the people crucifying him. Why? Because they didn’t know. They didn’t understand. The Catholic Church is very clear on this issue. People who don’t know or don’t understand are not barred from salvation. They, like all of us, are judged according to what they do know and understand.
All goodness comes from God. And if someone who is a non-believer through no fault of their own takes that goodness and runs with it, what more could anyone ask of them?
Perhaps Refugium could tell us if all the people who were born and died before Jesus was given to us have any chance at salvation? Because by this kind of logic, the answer would have to be no. You complain about a supposed lack of orthodoxy, and yet everything you have said directly contradicts the early church fathers and the catechism. If Jesus forgave the pagan oppressors who whipped him and drove nails through his hands and feet, what makes you think that anyone else is beyond hope for salvation?
Jesus, on the other hand, is absolutely essential for salvation. But that doesn’t mean that you have to believe in him or even be aware of him to have a chance at salvation. Jesus died for everyone’s sins, not just the believers. He even asked his Father to forgive the people crucifying him. Why? Because they didn’t know. They didn’t understand. The Catholic Church is very clear on this issue. People who don’t know or don’t understand are not barred from salvation. They, like all of us, are judged according to what they do know and understand.
All goodness comes from God. And if someone who is a non-believer through no fault of their own takes that goodness and runs with it, what more could anyone ask of them?
“This is my blood. The blood of the new and everlasting covenant. It will be shed for you, and for all, so that sins may be forgiven.”
Perhaps Refugium could tell us if all the people who were born and died before Jesus was given to us have any chance at salvation? Because by this kind of logic, the answer would have to be no. You complain about a supposed lack of orthodoxy, and yet everything you have said directly contradicts the early church fathers and the catechism. If Jesus forgave the pagan oppressors who whipped him and drove nails through his hands and feet, what makes you think that anyone else is beyond hope for salvation?
M
mikew262
Guest
Very good post! I think many on this forum misunderstand this.
S
SIA
Guest
Scriptures came from the church? Hmm, that’s funny. In all of my Scripture reading (and that’s a heck of alot!) I have never seen the words The Roman Catholic Church anywhere! I think you better go back and re-read upon what Jesus founded his church.
S
sodak
Guest
I have no idea what scriptures you have read. Jesus founded his Church on Peter, it’s quite obvious. And yes, the Scriptures came from the Catholic Church, an easily proven historical fact.
Perhaps the scriptures that you have been reading were changed by a man with no authority based upon his own heresies. Now who could that be? Hmm…
C
cyberjacques
Guest
The Scriptures did not come from the Catholic Church, they were compiled by the Catholic Church. It’s an important distinction. Saying that they CAME from the Church might sound to some people like you’re saying that the Church came up with them, just inventing them out of thin air. And since there are people that believe this is precisely what happened, it’s best not to feed their mania.
Also, if you’re going to accuse a group of heresy, it’s best to have a name and an example to back it up, since not everyone will know what you are referring to. Just some friendly advice.
J
Jimmy_B
Guest
Hello, cyberjacques****,****
I think maybe, you misunderstand sodak; the Bible did in fact “come down” from the Roman Catholic Church. The Bible did not magically appear, nor was it dropped down from Heaven.
A Roman Catholic Pope approved it. Much like the "King James” version of the Bible, which was approved by a Protestant, King of England, a thousand years later.
God inspired the Bible, but Catholic hands wrote it, and Catholic monks (scribes) rewrote it, and rewrote it, for fifteen hundreds years until, the advent of the printing press.
The Bible is not in fact God. It is the word of God, written by many different men.
The Catholic Church collected the various books, translated them, titled them, numbered the verses, disallowed some books and verses, organized the books, put them together and approved all the books of the bible, with the guidance of God, working through His Holy Catholic Church and by God’s will.
It was then that the Bible was “passed down” to our Protestant friends, fifteen hundred years later…
There were no Protestants, when the Bible was put together.
The Bible is a book; it is a “Catholic book”.
God Bless
D
dessert
Guest
Jesus is the way the truth and the life and anyone who excepts Him will be saved, becoming part of His body the catholic (universal) “Church” even the Jews and Muslims.
V
Valke2
Guest
you mean “accepts”, which is too bad, because I could except him. But I must respectfully decline.
T
Thing
Guest
Is the only way we know of.
D
dessert
Guest
But do you follow His way?
If someone gave you a map to show you the way would you just throw it out? Would you decline?
S
SIA
Guest
Still didn’t answer my question. Where is the Roman Catholic church mentioned by name in the Holy Scriptures? Can’t find it in my NIV and hmm isn’t that something; I can’t find it my father’s The Way Bible either! If the RCC gave us the Scriptures, then where is their church mentioned in the Scriptures?? So then, prove that easily provable fact from history.
J
JMJ_coder
Guest
Hello,
The first time the term Catholic is used explicitly to describe the Church is in the beginning of the second century (~110 A.D.) when Saint Ignatius of Antioch wrote to the Smyrnaeans. In the eighth chapter he writes “wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church”.
You can find it in Acts 9:31. The verse reads in Greek έκκλησία καθ όλης - ekklesia kath olos - the Church throughout all - or the Universal Church - the Catholic Church.
The first time the term Catholic is used explicitly to describe the Church is in the beginning of the second century (~110 A.D.) when Saint Ignatius of Antioch wrote to the Smyrnaeans. In the eighth chapter he writes “wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church”.
P
postwriter
Guest
Baptized (immersed in water) in Christ. Acts 2:38. Mark 16:16. Repent. John 14:15. Jesus Christ is also the head of the Church and equal to God. Roman Catholic Church does not follow Christ most of the members just think that they do.
- Status