Is Jesus Christ and the Roman Catholic Church the only way to salvation?

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

Yes, outside the Church there is no salvation.

When the Church has clarified Herself, She states that those who are invincibly ignorant, may be saved. How could this be? It is through something called a “baptism of desire”. Basically, if they did know, they would desire to be baptized. These are people who acknowledge that there is one God (this is written on the hearts of all men) and follow the basic moral principle of do good avoid evil. God knows in His omniscience who would and would not accept baptism if they weren’t ignorant. But, through the infinite mercy of God, a baptism of desire does bring one into the Catholic Church. So the Church is still always required for salvation.

 

[sodak]

Still didn’t answer my question. Where is the Roman Catholic church mentioned by name in the Holy Scriptures? Can’t find it in my NIV and hmm isn’t that something; I can’t find it my father’s The Way Bible either! If the RCC gave us the Scriptures, then where is their church mentioned in the Scriptures?? So then, prove that easily provable fact from history.

Why do you feel that it’s necessary?

The easily proven fact is Apostalic succession from Peter to the present Pope. The easily proven fact is the Catholic Church decided which books would be included in the Bible and which wouldn’t be. Go to the inside cover of your father’s The Way Bible, and look for an Imprimatur and Nihil Obstat. There you go.

 

[Allyson]

What do you mean by ‘Roman Catholic’? If you go to the Eastern Catholicism forum, you will see that many find this to be ambiguous.

Sorry if this was already asked here.

 

[cyberjacques]

Baptized (immersed in water) in Christ. Acts 2:38. Mark 16:16. Repent. John 14:15. Jesus Christ is also the head of the Church and equal to God.

Jesus IS GOD. Try not to forget that.

Roman Catholic Church does not follow Christ most of the members just think that they do.

Oh, really? Perhaps you could demonstrate how…?

 

[Valke2]

But do you follow His way?
If someone gave you a map to show you the way would you just throw it out? Would you decline?

To the extent his way is the Torah’s way, I follow or try to follow.

 

[dessert]

To the extent his way is the Torah’s way, I follow or try to follow.

I wouldn’t know much of anything about the Torah or it’s comparison to the CCC. So I guess we are at a stalemate.

 

[moondweller]

You can find it in Acts 9:31. The verse reads in Greek έκκλησία καθ όλης - ekklesia kath olos - the Church throughout all - or the Universal Church - the Catholic Church.

A correct interpretation would read “the church throughout the whole of Judea and Galilee and Samaria” “The Catholic Church” is not found in that verse. You’re manipulating the Scriptures to fit your own ecclesiology .

The first time the term Catholic is used explicitly to describe the Church is in the beginning of the second century (~110 A.D.) when Saint Ignatius of Antioch wrote to the Smyrnaeans. In the eighth chapter he writes “wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church”.

That’s in reference to believers in Christ. Wherever there are believers in Jesus Christ, there is the universal church. Ignatius was not making any reference to the Roman church. Another manipulation on your part.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

A correct interpretation would read “the church throughout the whole of Judea and Galilee and Samaria” “The Catholic Church” is not found in that verse. You’re manipulating the Scriptures to fit your own ecclesiology .That’s in reference to believers in Christ. Wherever there are believers in Jesus Christ, there is the universal church. Ignatius was not making any reference to the Roman church. Another manipulation on your part.

The poster wanted to know where “Catholic” can be found. That is where we get our name from, pure and simple. It is also historically provable that that same Church that existed at the time of the Apostles is the same Catholic Church that exists today, with Jesus Christ as its head and Pope Benedict XVI as His Vicar.

 

[steve_b]

1. RCC, Jesus is God
2. Protestant, Jesus is God
   3. Other (like me), Jesus is Messiah and rules as God, but not born God.
   4. Jesus is not Messiah or God.

Are you Mormon?

Abraham:

Couple of questions for opinion:

a. At what point is a person in danger of Hell?

When they are without sanctifying grace.

Abraham:

b. If #4 was like a saint in all other ways – charity, never sinning, etc. – and #1 sinned all the time, adultery, stingy, etc. – who has a better chance of Heaven?

I’m surprised you need to ask.

 

[steve_b]

A

Ignatius was not making any reference to the Roman church. Another manipulation on your part.

To the Churches Ignatius writes to, he says The Church of Rome holds the presidency

 

[Jimmy_B]

you mean “accepts”, which is too bad, because I could except him. But I must respectfully decline.

Hello Valke2,
Darn it… :doh2: and all because of a typo… and you were this close…
to becoming a Catholic.

My posts must drive you crazy, because I am a terrible writer.

Valke2, what would it take, for you to “accept” Jesus as the Second Person of the Holy Trinity?

God Bless You

 

[moondweller]

Hello,

The poster wanted to know where “Catholic” can be found. That is where we get our name from, pure and simple. It is also historically provable that that same Church that existed at the time of the Apostles is the same Catholic Church that exists today, with Jesus Christ as its head and Pope Benedict XVI as His Vicar.

I know what the poster asked for, and you didn’t supply it. You don’t get it from the Scripture verse you provided.

After the ecclesiastical schism the western church claimed catholicity and called itself the “Catholic” church. The eastern church claimed pure orthodoxy and called itself the “Orthodox” church. Those names are no different than the Protestant church that calls itself the “Church of Christ,” or the “Assembly of God.”

You’ll never find the “Catholic church” in the Scriptures as defined and claimed by Rome. The Apostles knew nothing of such a concept.

 

[moondweller]

To the Churches Ignatius writes to, he says The Church of Rome holds the presidency

Did he ever refer to the church of Rome as THE church? Did he call the church of Rome the “catholic” church? Did he call any bishop in Rome “vicar of Christ,” “head of the church on earth?” I think you’re imposing your own concepts into the words of Ignatius.

 

[JMJ_coder]

Hello,

I know what the poster asked for, and you didn’t supply it. You don’t get it from the Scripture verse you provided.

After the ecclesiastical schism the western church claimed catholicity and called itself the “Catholic” church. The eastern church claimed pure orthodoxy and called itself the “Orthodox” church. Those names are no different than the Protestant church that calls itself the “Church of Christ,” or the “Assembly of God.”

You’ll never find the “Catholic church” in the Scriptures as defined and claimed by Rome. The Apostles knew nothing of such a concept.

I didn’t say it was explicit in that verse. I said that is where the Church got Her name.

The Church has always been the Catholic Church and Her faith is orthodox. (cf. Eucharistic Prayer I) That same Church founded by Christ who is the head upon Saint Peter His Vicar, that same Church is the Catholic Church.

 

[jmcrae]

Baptized (immersed in water) in Christ.

We have the Sacrament of Baptism. Water is used. People get good and wet. There are two methods of administering Baptism in the Catholic Church: full immersion in a pool (ducked under three times) and pouring (water is poured over the head three times).

Acts 2:38. Mark 16:16. Repent.

Sacrament of Reconciliation (aka “Confession”) In the Confessional, we say *“My God, I am sorry for my sins with my whole heart …” *

John 14:15. Jesus Christ is also the head of the Church and equal to God.

We believe that Jesus Christ is God.

 

[moondweller]

Hello,

I didn’t say it was explicit in that verse. I said that is where the Church got Her name.

But not the Roman church. There always is, always was, only ONE church Christ was and is building upon the foundation of the Apostles and N.T. prophets.

The Church has always been the Catholic Church and Her faith is orthodox. (cf. Eucharistic Prayer I)

The church by nature is “universal,” since it is made up of true believers throughout the world and in heaven. That verse, however, only mentions the believers throughout Judea, Galilee and Samaria. Rome is not mentioned.

That same Church founded by Christ who is the head upon Saint Peter His Vicar, that same Church is the Catholic Church.

That’s the organized church of Rome in the west, which it called itself after the schism. It’s a name, not a definition.

 

[EmergencyOps]

In my beliefs, no.

I heard a very interesting quote on Catholic Answers Live last week (the day after Fr. Antoine was on). They talked about how non-Catholics can receive salvation after their death through the Church. I tried to find it in their podcast from that day, but I might have been looking at the wrong hour of CAL. It shocked me, but not in a good way. If anyone has that quote, I’d really like to see it.

-Mark

 

[AgnosTheist]

John 14:6-7
6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
7 If you know me, then you will also know my Father. (John (NAB) 14)

In reality this is how christians interpret that verse:

Jesus is the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through him, or through Natural Law.

right?

 

[Jimmy_B]

In reality this is how christians interpret that verse:

Jesus is the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through him, or through Natural Law.

right?

Hello Agnos Thiest,

What does this mean. Is salvation though Jesus alone; or Natural Law". In your opinion, what is “Natural Law” and how does this concept fit into “Christian Salvation”?

BTW, nice big, red font…

Take care,

 

[sodak]

I know what the poster asked for, and you didn’t supply it. You don’t get it from the Scripture verse you provided.

Again, so what? What difference does this make? I fail to see the point. I’ve also read many scientific papers, for example, Einstein’s General Theory of Relativity. If Albert doesn’t call himself out by name in his own paper, does that disprove that he wrote it? He’s writing about Physics, not himself!

This whole argument makes absolutely no sense to me, I don’t understand what you are driving at. Are you concerned that the Bible doesn’t have the word Catholic in it? Why would it, when back then, that was the only Christian church? Only after the Schism and Reformation would qualifiers be needed.

After the ecclesiastical schism the western church claimed catholicity and called itself the “Catholic” church. The eastern church claimed pure orthodoxy and called itself the “Orthodox” church. Those names are no different than the Protestant church that calls itself the “Church of Christ,” or the “Assembly of God.”

You’ll never find the “Catholic church” in the Scriptures as defined and claimed by Rome. The Apostles knew nothing of such a concept.

Quite right, and again I ask, so what? It is easily provable that the current Catholic Church, traces it’s roots back to Peter, and was the Church that gave us, through many deliberations and councils, the Bible.

Martin Luther, acting upon his own authority, removed books and tried to alter the wording of others. Now we have different versions of the Bible, some of which are contradictory. Only one can be the Truth.

I find it absolutely incredible that people will stand up and claim the Bible is the inerrant word of God, yet not believe the Church that was it’s author, editor, and interpreter.