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AlbertBall
Guest
Maybe you do, i don’t.
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SuperSailor
Guest
Yes, it does say “worship Him” and not “worship Me”, but…
Isa 66:23 speaks clearly on this: “From new moon to new moon, and from sabbath to sabbath, all flesh shall come to worship before me, says the LORD.”
This passage was before anyone came to the knowledge of God the Son. There are MANY passages in the OT that speak of God telling his people to worship him, either directly (commands) or by the actions of his people.
Jer 7:1 “The word that came to Jeremiah from the LORD:”
Jer 7:2 “Stand in the gate of the LORD’s house, and proclaim there this word, and say, Hear the word of the LORD, all you men of Judah who enter these gates to worship the LORD.”
The Father clearly knows who He is, and knows who His Son is.
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Black_Angel_1
Guest
What I meant, that is if you see Jesus as God, then you are Christian. The Book of John and any other book relating to jesus and its mentioning of him being God are all tied to the Bible. As the bible has references to all these other statements. So yes. Jesus being the Son of God is biblical, well new age biblical anyways.
As I recall, throughout history, depending on which Christian power was in charge it seems the bible was altered to fit their beliefs. From the Romans, to the Roman Catholic church, to the Knights Templar and so on. Truth is, what the bible says now, is not what it originally said.
Of course there are still some copies of the original text out there. And it isn’t pleasant to read…
I don’t mean to sound offensive. But when I here this speak of the “truth” I see nothing but ignorance. Not actual truth.
Personally, anyone who worships God, and sincerely ask for forgiveness for their sins and try to avoid sinning as much as possible are all saved. Be they Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or otherwise.
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Martin_R
Guest
Matthew 27:51
51 And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split. NASB
Hebrews 10:20
20 by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh,
NASB
Jesus is the veil between us and God as nobody can go directly to God. They have to go through Jesus. In the above verses, God is behind the veil. You can’t look directly at God and live. So how can Jesus hide God as a veil would, if He is God?
Wouldn’t that be like trying to calm a screaming child who’s frightened of a big growling dog by hiding the dog behind another big growling dog?
51 And behold, the veil of the temple was torn in two from top to bottom; and the earth shook and the rocks were split. NASB
Hebrews 10:20
20 by a new and living way which He inaugurated for us through the veil, that is, His flesh,
NASB
Jesus is the veil between us and God as nobody can go directly to God. They have to go through Jesus. In the above verses, God is behind the veil. You can’t look directly at God and live. So how can Jesus hide God as a veil would, if He is God?
Wouldn’t that be like trying to calm a screaming child who’s frightened of a big growling dog by hiding the dog behind another big growling dog?
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Cides28
Guest
If Jesus is not GOD (not the Father but the Son) why would Thomas reply to him as “MY LORD AND MY GOD” better translation from the Greek is “the Lord of me and The GOD of me”
he is the only begotten son of the Father… If he is the Son of the Father and the Father is GOD, then the son must be GOD. you are the son of your father who is human and so you must be human, same essence. ROMANS 14:7-9[7] None of us lives to himself, and none of us dies to himself.
[8] If we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord; so then, whether we live or whether we die, we are the Lord’s.
[9] For to this end Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living.
Whether we live or die we are the Lord’s (YHWH GOD) hence verse 9 this is why Christ died and lived again so that he might be LORD (YHWH GOD) both of the dead and of the living.
The reason we see Jesus and not die because like in philippeans stated "he emptied himself taking form of a slave (man).
AND THE WORD WAS GOD. WHO IS THE WORD (JESUS) AND THE WORD IS WHO? GOD JOHN 1
Jesus said to the Jews in John 8:58 before Abraham was I AM. Exodus 3:14 I AM WHO AM THIS IS MY NAME. Tell them I AM sent you.
jESUS TAKES UP THE DIVINE NAME OF YHWH (I AM)
hence Jesus is GOD and that is why he was put to death, not cause he claims to be an angel or messenger from GOD but because the Jews thought he was blaspheming claiming to be GOD. JOHN 10:33 [33] The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
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Martin_R
Guest
When Thomas called Jesus “My Lord and My GOD”. I suspect it was said as a high form of praise in the same way as people (wrongly) say, “He’s a god”, to show how much they respect somebody famous e.g. a guitarist. They know very well he’s not really a god, they are just saying how great a musician he is.
Thomas was idolising Jesus, which is ok as God said to worship Him.
Thomas used the Greek word “theos” which can mean godly:
blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Strongs=G2316&Criteria=godly*&t=KJV
and of course Jesus is Godly - He is God’s image.
btw I liked the hotel/casino thing.
Thomas was idolising Jesus, which is ok as God said to worship Him.
Thomas used the Greek word “theos” which can mean godly:
blueletterbible.org/search/translationResults.cfm?Strongs=G2316&Criteria=godly*&t=KJV
and of course Jesus is Godly - He is God’s image.
btw I liked the hotel/casino thing.
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Cides28
Guest
So are you trying to say Thomas used the Lord’s name in vain as saying? as “OH MY GOD?”
or did Thomas addressed Jesus as My Lord and My GOD. So are you saying it’s okay to idolize someone that is not GOD? Hey is not this breaking the 1st 2 Commandments? WOW!!!
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NotWorthy
Guest
“theos” could mean godly, but not in the text. And people didn’t go around blaspheming during this time in Ancient Israel.
When Thomas meant, “My Lord and my God”, its pretty evident that he meant, “My Lord and my God”.
And regarding the bridge that Jesus is between man and God. It seems like the best build to bridge that connects man with God is a bridge that is **both **man and God.
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Martin_R
Guest
Jesus came in the name of God and He is described as a prophet.
Deu 18:20 ‘But the *prophet *who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.’ NASB
Here’s another example where an angel used God’s name:
Exd 23:20
"See, I am sending my angel before you to lead you safely to the land I have prepared for you.
Exd 23:21
Pay attention to him, and obey all of his instructions. Do not rebel against him, for he will not forgive your sins. He is my representative–he bears my name. NASB
God gave Jesus His name:
Phl 2:9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name,
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Martin_R
Guest
It would be handy if the Bible said that wouldn’t it?
But instead, it says this:
1Tim 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, NASB
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Cristian_B
Guest
Well, John describes Jesus as the Word. He also says that everything we see was made trough or by the Word, and the Word is Jesus. Since everything that was made was made trough Jesus, and Jesus Himself is the Son of God, how much of a God can He be? Everything was made trough or by Jesus, including us. Therefore, Jesus is our Creator, but the Bible also says that the Father is our Creator. Isn’t this enough proof?
Martin R, if He isn’t our Lord and God, what, or whom is He?
Martin R, if He isn’t our Lord and God, what, or whom is He?
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Cides28
Guest
HEBREWS 1 [1] In many and various ways God spoke of old to our fathers by the prophets;
[2] but in these last days he has spoken to us by a Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world.
So is Jesus a prophet like the OT prophets? NO
having become as much superior to angels as the name he has obtained is more excellent than theirs.
[5] For to what angel did God ever say, "Thou art my Son,
Is Jesus an angel? this verse says he’s above angels. So if he is above being just a prophet and above the angels what is Jesus.
[8] But of the Son he says, “Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever,
the righteous scepter is the scepter of thy kingdom.
[9] Thou hast loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
therefore God, thy God, has anointed thee
with the oil of gladness beyond thy comrades.”
[10] And, “Thou, Lord, didst found the earth in the beginning,
and the heavens are the work of thy hands;
[11] they will perish, but thou remainest;
they will all grow old like a garment,
[12] like a mantle thou wilt roll them up,
and they will be changed.
But thou art the same,
and thy years will never end.”
[13] But to what angel has he ever said, “Sit at my right hand,
till I make thy enemies
a stool for thy feet”?
If you see these quotes from PSALMS you will see these quotes were attributed to YWHW GOD and is now being attributed to the Son.
So if he is the Son of the Father and who is His Father GOD so who is JEsus if he [3] He reflects the glory of God and bears the very stamp of his [nature,] what nature is GOD he is GOD, the Son is the exact nature as the Father, what nature is that? GOD.
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Cides28
Guest
And question just out of curiosity? are you much more knoweledgable then the early Church Fathers who were taught by the apostles themselves? For they taught and refered as being GOD, not the Father but GOD as well. it was until Arian came and started teaching he was not God but creature.
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NotWorthy
Guest
But that same bible says that the **man **is God.
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Martin_R
Guest
Numbers 23
19"God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent;
Hosea 11:9
…For I am God and not man…NASB
Would you like a bit added? e.g. “except my Jesus part, that is man.”
19"God is not a man, that He should lie,
Nor a son of man, that He should repent;
Hosea 11:9
…For I am God and not man…NASB
Would you like a bit added? e.g. “except my Jesus part, that is man.”
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Cides28
Guest
JOHN 1[1] In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. [3] all things were made through him, and without him was not anything made that was made. [14] And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth; we have beheld his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father.
JOHN 10 [33] The Jews answered him, “It is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God.”
JOHN 5 [17] But Jesus answered them, “My Father is working still, and I am working.”
[18] This was why the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath but also called God his Father, making himself equal with God.
TITUS 2 [13] awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ
JOHN 20 [28] Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!”
JOHN 8 [58] Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.” EXODUS 3 [14] God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And he said, “Say this to the people of Israel, `I AM has sent me to you.’”
MARK 1 [3] the voice of one crying in the wilderness
repare the way of the Lord,make his paths straight – " (john the baptist prepare the way for Jesus who is the Lord)ISAIAH 40 [3] A voice cries:"In the wilderness prepare the way of the LORD,
make straight in the desert a highway for our God.
MALACHI 3 [1] "Behold, I send my messenger to prepare the way before me, and the Lord whom you seek will suddenly come to his temple; the messenger of the covenant in whom you delight, behold, he is coming, says the LORD of hosts.
can go on and on!!! =)
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NotWorthy
Guest
When was Numbers written?
And when did Jesus become incarnate?
I don’t see any contradiction here.
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NotWorthy
Guest
Martin,
This thread has been resurrected (pardon the pun) so many times that I don’t know if a certain point has been dealt with by you, so I’ll present it again.
In Luke 1:43, Elizabeth, who is filled with the Holy Spirit at this time, asks, “And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?”
It seems that the Holy Spirit inspired Elizabeth to claim that Jesus was Lord (God), even as a fetus in Mary. Now, many people claim that Elizabeth (and Luke) is using “Lord” to mean “master” in this statement, but I don’t find that feasible.
You see, if my count is correct, the word “Lord” is used 27 times in the first 2 chapters of Luke. It is inconceivable for the author of Luke to use “Lord” as a rendering for “God” 26 times and then switch in midstream to the alternate usage of “Lord” as “Master” in this one sentence.
What are your thoughts on this?
This thread has been resurrected (pardon the pun) so many times that I don’t know if a certain point has been dealt with by you, so I’ll present it again.
In Luke 1:43, Elizabeth, who is filled with the Holy Spirit at this time, asks, “And how does this happen to me, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?”
It seems that the Holy Spirit inspired Elizabeth to claim that Jesus was Lord (God), even as a fetus in Mary. Now, many people claim that Elizabeth (and Luke) is using “Lord” to mean “master” in this statement, but I don’t find that feasible.
You see, if my count is correct, the word “Lord” is used 27 times in the first 2 chapters of Luke. It is inconceivable for the author of Luke to use “Lord” as a rendering for “God” 26 times and then switch in midstream to the alternate usage of “Lord” as “Master” in this one sentence.
What are your thoughts on this?
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Martin_R
Guest
Hmm, that’s interesting, I’d never noticed that verse before.
Thank you, I’ll look into that.
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Bussi
Guest
Maybe you missed this one too:
John 8:58
Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you, before Abraham was made, I am
And this too:
Exodus 3:14
God said to Moses: I AM WHO AM. He said: Thus shalt thou say to the children of Israel: HE WHO IS, hath sent me to you.
The highlighted words have very explicit meaning: both Jesus and God are saying individually we are the eternal uncreated beings… the Father and the Son, two of the three persons of the Trinity. If one believes the bible is inerrant and hold Trinitarian belief then there is no choice but to accept that Jesus is exactly what He claimed to be or if not then one might be saying Jesus is a liar.
And:
Matthew 28:19
Going therefore, teach ye all nations; baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
(Quotes are from the Douay-Rheims bible)
God bless…
Bussi
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