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ToddM
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Thank you. A straight answer, I appreciate that.
How about ‘…let them be to you as a gentile and a tax collector.’
Same question about a different question i.e. who is ‘you’?
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How about ‘…let them be to you as a gentile and a tax collector.’
Same question about a different question i.e. who is ‘you’?
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goofyjim
Guest
I didn’t bring that one up. Maybe you should answer. But either way if we’re going to pick and choose quotes of Jesus to argue back and forth we’re going down the wrong path. The fact still remains that we cannot ever figure Jesus(God) out. He will invite into heaven anyone He chooses and it might not suit our taste or fit what would have been our decision had we been Him. So again, I practice mercy in the hopes that He will show me mercy.
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ToddM
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Sorry, I was asking, not arguing. Still don’t see the mercy in not speaking up when their is a wolf in the fold. I was trying to learn something on a Catholic website. I was open to correction and clarification. I was hoping that others would do the same.
If you will read previous you will see that I was trying to stop the not so merry go round.
It is easy to be laissez-fare, it is hard to be wrong, to admit it, or to risk it.
God bless. bye.
If you will read previous you will see that I was trying to stop the not so merry go round.
It is easy to be laissez-fare, it is hard to be wrong, to admit it, or to risk it.
God bless. bye.
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JudieK
Guest
Why can’t those pushing for liberal Catholicism just join the Episcopal Church? It already has everything they are dreaming for, plus more! Leave the Catholic Church alone!
*** A disclaimer… I don’t want anyone to leave the Catholic Church. I would never want anyone to go without the grace of the sacraments! But if they insist on doing violence to the Church, for the protection of the flock they should leave. It seems like a pride issue… instead of going to a church that already embraces the things they value so much, they insist on taking down the “Goliath” of the Catholic Church, just for the satisfaction of it!!
If you think the Church is so wrong, why stay?
*** A disclaimer… I don’t want anyone to leave the Catholic Church. I would never want anyone to go without the grace of the sacraments! But if they insist on doing violence to the Church, for the protection of the flock they should leave. It seems like a pride issue… instead of going to a church that already embraces the things they value so much, they insist on taking down the “Goliath” of the Catholic Church, just for the satisfaction of it!!
If you think the Church is so wrong, why stay?
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goofyjim
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Thing is, many of them are not doing violence to the Church. They simply want permission to continue worshipping along with all the other sinners. But they are being told they can’t. Who is doing more violence to whom?Why can’t those pushing for liberal Catholicism just join the Episcopal Church? It already has everything they are dreaming for, plus more! Leave the Catholic Church alone!
*** A disclaimer… I don’t want anyone to leave the Catholic Church. I would never want anyone to go without the grace of the sacraments! But if they insist on doing violence to the Church, for the protection of the flock they should leave. It seems like a pride issue… instead of going to a church that already embraces the things they value so much, they insist on taking down the “Goliath” of the Catholic Church, just for the satisfaction of it!!
If you think the Church is so wrong, why stay?
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ToddM
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IMO, because that is not their ‘job’. The Church has enemies, and the worst ones are inside.Why can’t those pushing for liberal Catholicism just join the Episcopal Church? It already has everything they are dreaming for, plus more! Leave the Catholic Church alone!
*** A disclaimer… I don’t want anyone to leave the Catholic Church. I would never want anyone to go without the grace of the sacraments! But if they insist on doing violence to the Church, for the protection of the flock they should leave. It seems like a pride issue… instead of going to a church that already embraces the things they value so much, they insist on taking down the “Goliath” of the Catholic Church, just for the satisfaction of it!!
If you think the Church is so wrong, why stay?
In some cases leaving the Church is like Catholics ‘adding books’ to the Bible in reverse.
You can’t leave Cleveland from Oahu.
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skyryder
Guest
The association of Ipuwer with the Exodus is generally rejected by Egyptologists, who when interpreting the Exodus generally place it later, in the reign of Ramesses II. Some have alternatively interpreted the poem’s references to disturbances in nature as relating to the Thera eruption,which occurred ca. 1650-1600 BC.
The issue with Exodus is that large numbers of people leave some evidence of their travel or occupying a land. Nothing has ever been found. The exodus story of the giving of the law has strange parallels with King Sargon of Akkad. Jews may have adapted the story during the Babylonian Captivity in the same way the story of Tobias was created.
The book “The Jesus Mysteries” outlines many of the problems with the new testament as a piece of writing. The New Testament has been written and rewritten many times. “The book Who Changed the Bible and Why” highlights further problems. Archeological research has refuted the existance of early popes running a unified church.Today’s papacy is a medieval invention. .The early church appears to be a very different organization than that painted by the Vatican or Ebusius. Read the History of the Catholic Church by Hans Kung
The God I worship is one who is infinite, creative, loves unconditionally and embraces all. I do not worship a Tribal God who has a chosen people, with outsiders being damned… Catholics must love Protestants, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, Atheists etc. God calls us not to be religious but to be fully human to live, to love, and to be free. The present Catholic religion is not about God it is about fear, power, and control Do not be liminted to the culture you live in. Experience God first hand in your heart and unfettered by dogma or tradition. Remember God is not Catholic. God is the ultimate dimension of life which all faiths point, none understand, and is the mystery of mysteries.
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JudieK
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If they simply wanted to worship along with the other sinners, there would be no problem. Instead, they want to change the definition of “sin” so that it fits their preferences.
Moving the church into the culture of death is indeed doing it violence. Stating the the truth is debateable and changeable is doing the church violence.
I may not live up to the Church’s standards. I may fall very short and sin all the time. But I in no way would want the church to change its definition of what is sinful to make me feel better. I want God to grant me the grace to be better next time.
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JudieK
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Skyrider- everything you say is YOUR opinion, which you are entitled to. So why do you then go on to define what the Catholic Church is about, since you know nothing of it? Do you speak for over a billion other people, too? Can you honestly say that your version of God is more accurate than those of over 2,000 years of the greatest minds in history? That’s a bit arrogant.
The Catholic Church as I have experienced is not at all about fear, power, or control. It is about being free to be the authentic child of God you were created to be, because true freedom is found in knowing God and living by His precepts. The Church is a public expression of our human gratitude to God… our communal response to worship and adore Him. And He in turn uses the Church to let His graces flow like living water… refreshing and life-giving.
Your faith of “God loves everything we do because it’s all creative and wonderful” is absurd. Does God love it when we steal, or commit adultry, or lie? That would be a contradiction. Your kind of faith, while your entitlement, is a cop-out. It takes no committment, no effort, no anything. But if that’s your thing, fine. Why try to take down others who find God in the Catholic faith?
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ToddM
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Who is the ‘them’? Should I partake of communion while in a state of mortal sin, or isn’t it a mortal sin anymore?
Is it really that simple? Worship how? In what way? If I ask for mercy, for forgiveness, do I have the right to dictate terms?
If there is no such thing as apostolic authority, how can their be a Church?
You can ‘simply’ worship with other sinners, in the way you choose.
If you can’t find a church that conforms to your rules and your way, make one up. The more the merrier? I hope not.
The Church has authority, It has a constitution. It has terms. They may be wrong, the beliefs may be false, but it is what it is.
If the authority is no longer authoritative, in terms of things we MUST believe to be Catholic, then what?
I understand. I’ve even said it before, in this thread even. Basic question though. Is the Catholic church the Church that Christ started? Did he give authority to the apostles? Did they pass it on?
The hard part is, like it or not, understand it or not, the individual successors personal failings aside, on Dogma, not discipline, but things that are established as things you MUST believe, do you, can you, will you?
Where does it stop? Is there, agree with them or not, an authority? Does that authority even HAVE the authority to change
Dogma?
How immaculate is the conception? That will go out the window, along with belief in the divinity of Christ and anything else that is ‘inconvenient’ or even hard.
What cross is it exactly that we are to bear?
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ToddM
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Thank you for at least taking some effort to clarify your beliefs and their bases.
"…is generally rejected by Egyptologists, who when interpreting the Exodus generally place it later…’’
This isn’t quite as all encompassing as first stated, is it?
What is your opinion on the Hyksos?
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Ender
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Is this some kind of quote from Monty Python? My question was about morality, not Egyptology. Are you going to answer the question?
Good … then answer mine.
Ender
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Harmony1988
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And the ignorant shall inherit the earth. Pius XII a bad pope ? Excuse me, he had the toughest job of trying to hold together peace when there was a war waging. On one side Catholics were being persecuted and on the other side Jews were dying and Hitler was threatening to march into the Vatican and oust him.
‘Progressives’ - if by progressives you mean people who embrace modern trends and ideologies that like the flowers in the field are here today and gone tomorrow then I have to
And I think you did.You can’t really label Popes as progressive or conservative, these are MEDIA descriptions for the general public to undertand. It’s clear to see you have got your conclusions wrong since P JPII’s formation was under Pius XII’s pontificate, his theology and philosophy is very similar to Pius XII, if you can show me where P JPII explicitly rebukes a majority of Pius XII’s teachings then we can validate your post.
You also seem to forget that Popes don’t sit there all day researching science and big books making decisions entirely by themselves. Implying that good popes and bad popes come in patterns also puts you in a precarious position, I wasn’t aware that this was a fact, rather a silly theory that is unsubstantiated.
You seem to say JPII is right and Pius XII is wrong, if that’s the case, it must mean that JPII has invalidated Pius XII, which is incorrect.
Try again
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Jimsdun
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I have to disagree with you. Liberal and conservative popes aren’t respectively good and bad, just like political parties. There is good and bad in each. In my opinion, excessive liberalism has done untold damage to the church, and a conservative like Benedict XVI is needed to return to proper balance. The abuses and abominations caused by too many years of liberalism: Clown masses, puppet masses, Life Teen masses, happy-clappy praise and worship music, and serving communion to non-Catholics are examples of liberalism gone amok. Not to mention the number of pedophile priests that are a direct result of exessive liberalism.
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ToddM
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Creativity, all inclusive love, (does that include loving sin? Does sin even exist for you? ) flexible thinking ( Does omniscience include thought? How is it that an unchanging God can be ‘flexible’? ) and a willingness to grow (what kind of God do you worship? Exactly what does God lack that he needs to grow? Satan is the ambitious one.) and innovation are the nature of God. The historic person of Jesus was a liberal. (You mean like his insistence on truly fullfilling all the law, instead of being ‘flexible’. Did his say 'sin no more? or Its no big deal?) ie One who frees. (Sure, frees FROM SIN) He was not a traditionist, nor a royalist, (no, he is royalty) nor a comma counter. (“Not one dot, or tittle” oh wait, that was one of the corrupted parts, right? " Blind adherence to tradition, (is all adherence blind?) conditional or limited love, (Gee mom, if you loved me you’d let me do whatever I wanted) pettiness,(like those pesky sin thingies) inflexibile thinking (should you be flexible with sin?) and refusal to change (Does God change?) is the hallmark of conservatisim, rigor mortis and death. (Aren’t we supposed to die, alot?) Let us worship the God of the living. (You mean love that will include everything and everyone into heaven, you know, all inclusive. You mean a god that is into self improvement, say to be like the most high? A god that will tolerate and even be ‘most pleased’ with whatever we do?)
Progressives are the only hope for the church! (Are you saying the Lord dropped the ball? Will the gates prevail?) Shame on extremeist right wing blog. This is the 21st century not the 12th. Lets get on with Liberal Revolution and embrace the Great Commission.
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Harmony1988
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I hope you aren’t trying to label Paul VI as one, just checking.
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skyryder
Guest
If everyone thinks the same, then someone ain’t thinkin.
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skyryder
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Reading your blog, I think the only answer to deal with Liberal Conservative issues is schism. Yes the CONSERVATIVES caused the pedophile scandal, by not allowing priests to marry as they are explicitly told to do so in Timothy leads to perversion. Ditto for Bishops. Celibacy is not the will of God. The church must change. Same applies to ordination of women. Yes historically there were women priests. eg. St. Bridget of Ireland.
I will not stoop to repeat all the information on Gay Popes or the sexual misconduct documented in Peter DeRosa’s Book, The Dark Side of the Papacy, or the fact that Dignity USA has a list of 160 US Bishiops that are gay. It is not hard to meet gay clergy. I know several homosexual priests and meet their adult lovers socially.Most of these men do not prey on young boys but some have. It is not up to you to decide if Protestants can receive communion. It is their decision based on conscience.
I have many good protestant friends that are better Christians than most Catholics. I believe Christ died for all not just Catholics.
Christ said do not put new wine in old wine skins. There is nothing wrong with teen masses or kids masses that use modern music, skits, cartoons etc. that are meaningful to a segment of the congregation. What is wrong is the resurrecting Latin Mass and Renaissance Art that is totally out of touch with the modern world. Christ condemned stuffy formal worship…which apparently is what the CONSERVATIVES want. Benedict’s stubborness and refusing to modernize or spread the Gospel is condemning Christianity to the dust bin of history. God will not tolerate such mismanagement. Benedict is signing the papacys death warrant.
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skyryder
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I think the issue here is whether we are worshiping the small minded narrow God of Josef Ratzinger and the Office of the Inquistion or something which is closer to the really big God as revealed in Science. Yes the Catholic Church is about fear and control. I can’t think of a single thing that Pope Benedict has done which in any way reflects the freeing message of Jesus. In the words of St Augustine: " Love and do as you may."
The conservative extremism of the Pope is confounding. Ratzinger new book on Jesus Christ or his letter: Deus Caritas Est show he is a man who neither understands the Person of God, or the Nature of Love. The Pope’s refusal to allow creative worship is an insult to both laity and Our Maker. Lets hope the Holy Spirit will free the Church from the centuries of papal error, misinformation, bad teaching and meaningless tradition which are preventing it from being a force for good in today’s society.
Evolve or go extinct.
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Contarini
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When I can paraphrase one major idea of St. Thomas Aquinas without seriously distorting it, I’ll start wondering if my age is as educated as his, let alone more so. (Sure, more people are educated. But I am unlikely in a long 21st-century life to read and understand everything he wrote in his relatively short 13th-century life.)
Edwin
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