Is Life Teen an orthodox organization?

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Maybe I’m not down with how the kids are dancing nowadays, but grave sedateness and dancing don’t go together at all.
 
The problem is, kids see these televangelical shows on TV where everyone in the audience is going nuts or they see their Protestant buddies’ youth group having a worship and praise party and they want it too. The problem is, there’s no real difference in a worship and praise party and a regular protestant service, but there is something utterly different between the Mass and a worship and praise get together. Those kinds of get togethers can be really great, but they should take place before or after Mass. Get your dancing done then. The worship and praise that happenes during the Mass should have a much different tone. That’s all I’m saying.

People today do not always know better than those that came before. Human beings have been dancinf for much longer than 2000 years, but at no point has dancing been part of the Mass. I really have trouble imagining Sts. Peter and Paul dancing at Mass. If dancing was part of it, it would have been passed down or at least been documented at some point. I will gladly concede the point and defend dancing from here on out on these threads if someone presents evidence of this :dancing: .
 
Don’t any of you understand that we aren’t protestant?

What protestant youth group could cajol teens into voulenteering with Adoration?

And we aren’t talking about you children, raised with all the knowledge and heart of the magestirum, we are talking about teens who still think Catholic worship statues!!!

Eventually the teens mature and move on, its part of the process, but you must enkindle hearts before the fire begins…
 
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Meggie:
And we aren’t talking about you children, raised with all the knowledge and heart of the magestirum, we are talking about teens who still think Catholic worship statues!!!
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Now I’m really confused. Catholic teens would never say that. Now, I can see where Protestant teens might, but they should be in RCIA (or is it called RCIT for teens) - not in the youth group for actual Catholics.
 
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rcn:
Now I’m really confused. Catholic teens would never say that. Now, I can see where Protestant teens might, but they should be in RCIA (or is it called RCIT for teens) - not in the youth group for actual Catholics.
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EXACTLY…when I enetered lifeteen I would say bitterly “we dont” when asked by a protestant why catholics worship statues…I am talking about under evangelized Catholics, speif, ones who have already recieved confirmation…
 
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Genesis315:
Maybe I’m not down with how the kids are dancing nowadays, but grave sedateness and dancing don’t go together at all.
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Oh, I assure you, the way kids dance nowadays is generally not appropriate to the Liturgy. But, I would be hard pressed to state how dancing in of itself is mutually exclusive with the mood of the Liturgy.

Then again, there are many things which can be done in a fashion which properly harmonizes with the Liturgy which should nevertheless be left out. Dancing may very well be one of those things.
 
HumbleSinner said:
Life Teen co-founders sued

Accused of facilitating sex attacks in1985
Joseph A. Reaves
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If this news article has any bearing on the subject of the orthodoxy of LifeTeen, we would have to shut down the entire Roman Catholic Church in America by the same reasoning.
 
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michaeljw:
I mentioned earlier that my parish recently underwent a change with the arrival of a new pastor. In light of these recent posts concerning Life Teen’s affect on the sacred and solemn nature of the liturgy of the Mass, I’d like to elaborate further.

When I first came to my current parish, the LT program was run by a former (you could perhaps say reformed) “Young Life” minister. The music was run by a local recording artist and energetic performer. Suffice it to say that members of this thread would have a field day listing all the things that would bother them about what was going on in the liturgies here.

Then the new pastor came. He was young - ordained only 4 years earlier - and a model of obedience to his bishop and more importantly to Rome. Within months of his arrival, the music minister left. The youth minister’s contract was not renewed and a new minister was brought in. Incense was brought back to the liturgy along with the bells at consecration.

The sanctuary underwent a face lift as the wooden altar was removed and the sacrifice of the Mass returned to the permanent stone altar under the baldachin. The ambo and presider’s chair were replaced with something more suitable for the sanctuary. Homilies became “meatier”, and the Prayers of the Faithful contained intentions prayed weekly (not “weakly”) against abortion and contraception.

The pastor meets every week with the music minister and personally approves the music that is selected for each Mass. In many cases, if an appropriate song is not available for the psalm, the music minister writes one that is faithful to the scriptural text. Often the psalm is chanted. The music still has a contemporary style overall, but one that is more reserved than before. Periods of silence once again punctuate key moments of the liturgy.

The only difference between the Life Teen mass and the others is that some of the music selections are different - usually the second communion and the closing song are different - the latter sometimes played with a bit more gusto. But again, the pastor ensures the music does not detract from the liturgy. Teens do not gather around the altar. Clapping and hand-waving, while not being squelched outright, are no longer encouraged as they once were from the previous music minister. Teens get the “smells and bells” of a pious Mass coupled with orthodox, challenging and relevant homilies from confident, masculine priests.

I’m sorry to go on for so long, and I don’t mean to suggest that every parish should make the same changes that I describe. I just want to stress that the Life Teen program in no way inhibited this pastor from making these changes and ensuring the liturgy was as close to what the Church intends it to be. The Mass is affecting these teens and doing what Life Teen wants - drawing them closer to Christ. The increase in teen attendance at Mass is evidence of this.

Bringing Life Teen to any parish will not ensure that parish’s orthodoxy or its heterodoxy. I say again, only the pastor can truly affect what goes on in the liturgy and the other programs sponsored by the parish. To blame Life Teen for bad liturgy is to take the spotlight off of the one who deserves it.

Now, I have great admiration for all our priests, regardless of my opinion of the liturgies they serve. They are men of God and worthy of our respect. I would recommend the book “Goodbye Good Men” to anyone who hasn’t read it. It effectively demonstrates how many priests were trained to adopt a more “liberal” view of things. As a result, the country has been burdened for many years with some priests who have chosen to make unfortunate changes to the liturgy.

We are now in the “new springtime”. A younger crop of priests is coming (many a product of the Life Teen program). With our prayers and support, they will restore the liturgy from the circus it has become in many places to what it has been for centuries: an encounter with Heaven.

Peace,
Michael
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Yeah, Fr. Jim Wall is a great priest!
 
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Genesis315:
If dancing was part of it, it would have been passed down or at least been documented at some point. I will gladly concede the point and defend dancing from here on out on these threads if someone presents evidence of this
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**Revisiting “Liturgical Dance”
**Holy See’s “The Religious Dance, an Expression of Spiritual Joy” turns 30
Code: 
   Cardinal Francis Arinze, prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, has recently and publicly criticized introducing dance into the Liturgy, as it risks reducing this sacred rite to a spectacle.
In an address in 2003, the cardinal responded to a question on “liturgical dance”:

“There has never been a document from our Congregation for Divine Worship and Discipline of the Sacraments saying that dance is approved in the Mass”; and he noted that “the tradition of the Latin Church has not known the dance. It is something that people are introducing in the last ten years – or twenty years”. (See “Cardinal Responds to Questions on Liturgy” AB October 2003).

There has not been an express ruling from the Holy See against so-called “liturgical dance” – primarily because, as Cardinal Arinze also observed, dance-like movements during processions are customary in some countries, and thus may be a legitimate form of “inculturation” of the Liturgy in these regions. This kind of ritual dance has been introduced into several papal liturgies – on occasions usually connected with African or Asian culture. These are special exceptions, however, that are to be seen in the context of the Holy Father’s unique universal role, not as precedent-setting liturgical variations to be introduced into ordinary Masses at will.
adoremus.org/0205TOC.html
 
As a former youth minister who was very successful with evangelizing and discipling kids from jr. high to college ages – it has been heartbreaking over the years for me to see that most Catholic churches lack young adults at their masses. It is also a documented fact that a large number of Catholic kids view Confirmation as graduation from church and do not darken our doorstep from then on… God’s love isn’t turning these kids off – we are!

If we read the gospels watching for the character of Jesus to emerge, we find He was very comfortable for children to be around, very comfortable for “sinners” to be around. The only people who had a continuous problem with Him were church leaders who were upset with his apparent lack of adherence to proper etiquette and disregard for religious rules and customs – tradition (that’s the way it’s ALWAYS been done…).

Jesus wanted us to know that religion is not a set of rules, but is an intimate relationship. Religion is about love.

You can find some liturgical abuses in every type of mass today – from organ/cantor to folk mass to LifeTeen.

The Catholic Church’s ability to evangelize in our culture is NOT admirable. If it weren’t for infants born into our faith and the influx of Hispanic immigrants – Catholics would be a dying entity in America.

LifeTeen has a track record as a successful means of reaching thousands of teens across the entire country. And these teens have a high rate of church involvement AFTER they leave the LifeTeen program. Isn’t it conceivable that the Holy Spirit inspired the creation of LifeTeen?

Let’s be careful about criticizing what may not be a personally relevant way for you to worship God.
 
Song of Songs:
As a former youth minister who was very successful with evangelizing and discipling kids from jr. high to college ages – it has been heartbreaking over the years for me to see that most Catholic churches lack young adults at their masses. It is also a documented fact that a large number of Catholic kids view Confirmation as graduation from church and do not darken our doorstep from then on… God’s love isn’t turning these kids off – we are!

If we read the gospels watching for the character of Jesus to emerge, we find He was very comfortable for children to be around, very comfortable for “sinners” to be around. The only people who had a continuous problem with Him were church leaders who were upset with his apparent lack of adherence to proper etiquette and disregard for religious rules and customs – tradition (that’s the way it’s ALWAYS been done…).

Jesus wanted us to know that religion is not a set of rules, but is an intimate relationship. Religion is about love.

You can find some liturgical abuses in every type of mass today – from organ/cantor to folk mass to LifeTeen.

The Catholic Church’s ability to evangelize in our culture is NOT admirable. If it weren’t for infants born into our faith and the influx of Hispanic immigrants – Catholics would be a dying entity in America.

LifeTeen has a track record as a successful means of reaching thousands of teens across the entire country. And these teens have a high rate of church involvement AFTER they leave the LifeTeen program. Isn’t it conceivable that the Holy Spirit inspired the creation of LifeTeen?

Let’s be careful about criticizing what may not be a personally relevant way for you to worship God.
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The problem the Church has is not following the “rules” to strictly, but the opposite. Where orthodoxy is lived and taught, evangelization is great. Where happy, clappy, Catholic lite folks are, the Church is weak.
 
I don’t know too much about LifeTeen and have not been in a parish that has a LifeTeen mass, but I was wondering about something. When a teenage person finally matures and hopefully moves on from the LifeTeen program, do they continue to go to mass? Or do they stop because mass doesn’t have the same appeal to them as the LifeTeen one they became accustomed to? If the mass they were attending before LifeTeen didn’t bring them closer to Jesus, then why would they think the same mass after LifeTeen would accomplish what it couldn’t before?

In Christ,
Scarlet
 
I just finished reading this entire thread, and I have to say that it has been an eye-opening experience. I’d have to say that this is the best thread I’ve read on these boards (minus the personal attacks). I hope people keep contributing.

A couple of small things:
  1. “Celebrate” As mentioned above, its historical meaning has been “to come together”. We should not equate “celebrate” with “hillarity”. We aren’t having a party, we are honoring a person’s death and resurrection.
  2. Liturgical dance is not a universal experience. In Africa, dancing is ONLY done in as an act of worship. It is never done in a social or entertainment arena.
In the Western culture, dancing is seen as an erotic behavior (let’s just be honest). It’s between a man and a woman, or it is a person moving in suggestive ways. That’s our culture, and it’s a part of us. So, like it or not, if we see a person dancing, it carries an erotic conotation with it. That makes it inappropriate for Western liturgies. No good will intentions from a youth director or liturgical coordinator can change what is hardwired in Westerners’ brains.

So you can’t say, “They do it in Africa, so why not here?” Our culture makes it at variance with the spirit of the liturgy.
  1. Just because a song is about Jesus doesn’t make it proper for the Mass. I liked the comment above about a “Jesus High”. Banal music appeals to our lower instincts. It appeals to emotions, makes us clap our hands and swing about like we’ve lost our minds. It’s the kind of stuff we hear on the radio, and that’s all well and good. I love to dance to Caedmon’s Call and Gypsy Kings as I vaccuum the living room. I like to “play the drums” on the steering wheel when an 80’s rock classic comes on. GREAT. For that type of setting.
However, for the Sacred Liturgy, sacred music is in order. That doesn’t simply mean it’s about Jesus. It means that the manner of the music lifts one’s eyes heavenward to contemplate the holiness and magnamity of the ever-living, ever-loving, Eternal God. It leads one to inner contemplation, which is the ESSENCE of “active participation in the liturgy”. If we are so cought up in emotional externals, how on God’s green earth are we going to be lead to inner contemplation of the mystery on Christ?

I’d just add my experience with Gregorian chant. As a member of a GC group, we have always gotten great responses from people. We’ve done Holy Hours, Vespers, Masses, and even a funeral. We just did an entire Mass, and people are begging for more. We’ve gotten comments such as, “I felt HOLY going up to receive communion”, “It sounded like angels from heaven”, “Beautiful”, and “THAT’S how every Mass SHOULD be”. Contrast that with the expressions of mediocrity that you see on the faces of teens who leave the rock Masses in this area, and you start to see the wisdom of Mother Church in Vatican II’s Sacrosanctum Concillium.

That reminds me, as I continue this “stream of consciousness” rambling… Why is it that people don’t want a LT type Mass for a funeral, but they DO want GC (many have told us that they want us to sing at their funerals). Well, if GC is “right” for “coming together” (or celebrating) for Joe Smith death, why not for Jesus’s death?

Okay, I’m done.

Rich
 
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Scarlet:
When a teenage person finally matures and hopefully moves on from the LifeTeen program, do they continue to go to mass? Or do they stop because mass doesn’t have the same appeal to them as the LifeTeen one they became accustomed to?
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You’ve hit upon the main concern I have with LT. What happens when the Church stops telling them how “special” they are?

Many no doubt fall away. (More than in parishes where no special teen program exists? I don’t know.)

To try to prevent this from happening, many parishes in my area (where LT was founded) now have “young adult ministries”. Which is just more of the same.

After LT has been ingrained in a parish for a generation or two, what will be the result? This is what worries me.
 
This is the letter from Lifeteen that was sent to all the parishes that have a Lifeteen program. This letter for many months was posted on the Lifeteen website but I can’t seem to find it. The link that I had doesn’t seem to work either. My friend sent me a copy of the letter which I have typed out below.

July, 2004
On June 4, 2004, the Bishop of Phoenix, Most Rev. Thomas J. Olmsted, met in Rome with Francis Cardinal Arinze regarding LIFE TEEN. His Eminence Cardinal Arinze, Prefect of the Congregation of Divine Worship, stated his support for LIFE TEEN and said he was “heartened to see that dedicated persons have taken initiative to promote the liturgy especially since, in various parts of the world, a disaffection for the Mass is found among young people”. The Cardinal was very supportive of LIFE TEEN and encouraged our mission to continue. However, he also believed that LIFE TEEN needs to fully implement the new General Instruction of the Roman Missal (GIRM).

In addition to his meeting with Cardinal Arinze, Bishop Olmsted met with Monsignor James Moroney, executive director of the United States Bishop’s Committee on the Liturgy (BCL) regarding LIFE TEEN. Msgr. Moroney has been in dialogue with LIFE TEEN regarding implementation of the new GIRM.

Continued on next post
 
As the founder of this youth movement, I am writing to confirm our adherence to the new GIRM, and as always, our obedience to our own local Bishops. In this spirit of obedience, we are asking all parishes using the LIFE TEEN model to make the following changes:

  1. *]
    • In accordance with the new GIRM, teens are no longer to enter the sanctuary for the Eucharistic prayer. Being in the sanctuary is reserved for the priest celebrant, concelebrants, and those performing a specific ministry.
    • The GIRM very specifically offers three options for the end of the Mass. We are to cease using the phrase “The Mass Never Ends, It Must Be Lived” and begin using one of the three prescribed endings found in the Missal.
    • After music practice or welcoming, please make sure there is a period of silence to begin the liturgical celebration.
    • As we have always taught, please make sure the music does not in any way detract from the action at the altar, ambo, or chair.
      *]Please make sure that full implementation of the GIRM is done in accordance with your Diocese and accomplished with a spirit of joy.
      Although these changes may be difficult for some parishes and teens to accept, let me assure you that our cooperation with Rome and the BCL will only enhance our liturgical celebrations and our mission in the Church. It will be essential that we catechize our teens and their families on what we are doing, and why we are doing it.

      All parishes involved with LIFE TEEN will receive a short video by the beginning of August to be used to introduce these changes. We will assist you in any way possible to make a smooth and grace-filled transition. We are asking for catechesis and full implementation of these changes by October 1, 2004. As you know, October has been chosen by the Holy Father to begin the year of the Eucharist. This is an exciting time for us to focus on the real presence and to call our teens to a deeper faith in the Church and in the sacraments.

      The heart of LIFE TEEN is the Eucharist. Full, conscious, and active participation of our youth remains to be our goal. Dynamic preaching, spirit filled music, and the conversion of young people remain our hallmark. The commitment of LIFE TEEN to evangelize our youth and to call them to Christ is stronger than ever. We will work for vocations. Our Holy Father John Paul II remains our role model. Our Blessed Mother remains our patron.

      Thank you for the love you have for our youth and LIFE TEEN. We are growing and this can be seen in our new national headquarters, in our camps in Atlanta and Arizona, as well as in our local parish programs. We are also working hard on the official status of LIFE TEEN as a private association of the Christian Faithful, in favor with the Apostolic See of the Catholic Church; bright days are ahead for us all.

      We thank Cardinal Arinze, Bishop Olmsted, and Msgr. Moroney. They have clearly laid out a path for us, and we will follow it with enthusiasm and faith.

      In Christ,

      Msgr. Dale J. Fushek and the staff of LIFE TEEN
 
If anyone on this thread knows where to find this letter on the Lifeteen website please post the link.
 
…do they stop because mass doesn’t have the same appeal to them as the LifeTeen one they became accustomed to?
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This is why there is a danger to using the Life Teen program as an excuse to tinker with the liturgy. Properly executed, the LT program should be catechising teens to appreciate the beauty of the liturgy so that it can be loved no matter where they go later in life… no matter how well or how poorly it is celebrated.

The teens with whom I traveled to Rome for WYD 2000 had the opportunity to participate in a Latin (novus ordo) Mass at St. Peter’s basilica. No hype, no hoopla, no music, no chairs or kneelers, and no English… I think your average teen would find the scenery nice, but the Mass tediously boring. Yet they were all deeply moved by the beauty of that Mass.

LT should be fostering a genuine love for the Mass as it is supposed to be celebrated. In parishes where this is done, the teens benefit. In parishes where the pastor plays around with the liturgy in the spirit of “inculturation” or some such “children’s liturgy” nonsense, the teens can be misled to believe that Mass should be “entertaining”. In those cases, Scarlet’s and RCN’s fears are genuine.

But to answer this thread’s initial question however, none of this means that the LT program is inherently “heterodox” and should be abandoned or avoided by all parishes. I only mean to emphasize (ad nauseum) that the pastor is the one to take complaints regarding the way the liturgy is conducted. It is a cop-out on our part (or the pastor’s) to lay the blame on Life Teen.

The letter posted by HumbleSinner shows that LT’s intention is to be in full compliance. But even before this letter was issued, there was no legally binding force behind a Life Teen program that tied the hands of the pastor forcing him to make changes he knew were illicit. Life Teen has no magisterial or practical authority over any priest or bishop with which to influence the interpretation of the GIRM.

If there is a LT Mass that is making a mess of the liturgy in your community address this with the pastor. The buck stops there.

Peace,
Michael
 
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HumbleSinner:
This is the letter from Lifeteen that was sent to all the parishes that have a Lifeteen program.
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Please see post #6 in this thread for what I believe to be “the rest of the story” about this letter.
 
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rcn:
Please see post #6 in this thread for what I believe to be “the rest of the story” about this letter.
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I know the story but I’ve never seen any proof. Personally I don’t care for the Lifeteen program. Maybe it works for other parishes but I don’t think it has worked for ours. A couple of friends of mine called and wrote letters to the Lifeteen headquarters regarding the standing around the altar when they still advocating standing around the altar and they just made lame excuses as to why they were still doing it.

I was just wondering if there were any articles that told the real story?
 
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