Is Masturbation the only "debatable" Sin?

[BRB]

Personally, I think the argument that men need a “biological release” is insulting to men (at least, I take offense to it). Before I got married, I managed to live for years without committing this sin and I didn’t suffer any physical problems.

Joe …

I’ve read alot of your comments on other threads … and respect your viewpoints in most every case. But, you must be the exception to the rule – regarding this biologic conundrum.

Again, since Christ didn’t deal with it [to my knowledge] … maybe its not a mortal one. Then again … maybe its intended to be the sin that forces us to face necessity of confession on regular basis.

 

[bilop]

Perhaps we can find a female that can vouch for fact that most women enjoy the act.

Women do it to pleasure themselves via orgasm. Men can as well, but Christian men are more often just looking to find a release for the tension within testes. Not necessarily to enjoy the orgasm or to prolong the event.

So, from the standpoint of self pleasure … it may prove more of an offense for women.

Provided a man does not fantasize or use porn, or prolong the event and is simply releasing the biologic tension within to get relief, not self pleasure … I would see it as a venial sin. Again, Jesus knows our thoughts/hearts … and if men engage in act no more than perhaps monthly [and only for biologic reasons to prevent nocturnal accidents] ---- it is probably venial.

However, for a lady … I really can’t see any biologic need to ever engage in the act, and its probably always a mortal sin for them.

Finally, what did Jesus teach on the subject ? Thats what really matters … not what we think/believe. The Bible clearly teaches that homosexual & lesbian relationships are mortal sins … how could anyone believe a release to avoid inevitable nocturnal accidents would be of similar sinfulness ?

I’m sorry, this is nonsense. “Biologic reasons”??? “prevent nocturnal accidents”???

First, nothing bad will happen to you physically if you don’t masturbate. I lived chastely for many years, then not chastely, and now chastely again (within marriage). Nothing changed with my health.

Second, what’s so bad about “nocturnal accidents” that you’re willing to sin, probably mortally since you know the Church’s teaching, to avoid them? They are not intentional, and therefore not sinful.

Maybe I should come up with some logic as to why adultery is not sinful. What if I really love the other women too, and she has no man in her life…

It’s all B.S. to defend our favorite sins. I strongly suggest you read some version of the Theology of the Body to understand Catholic sexuality in its entirety.

May God Bless you and help you realize the beautiful truths of the Church’s teaching on sexuality.

 

[BRB]

It’s all B.S. to defend our favorite sins. I strongly suggest you read some version of the Theology of the Body to understand Catholic sexuality in its entirety.

.

I’m not defending the act. I’m stating the obvious, Christian men need to somehow deal with this issue in best possible way … short of castration for those in priesthood, who have not other options.

Those of us who are single and not priests … should probably marry ASAP. That would solve our individual problems … but, until we find that special one for us, we might be inviting more troubles by hasty actions.

Just curious … why did not Christ speak out on topic ? He probably did … since if everything He said were written, all the books in world could not contain … per John.

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

Those of us who are single and not priests … should probably marry ASAP. That would solve our individual problems … but, until we find that special one for us, we might be inviting more troubles by hasty actions.

Please tell me that you do not think that marriage would solve someone’s problem with masturbation. If so, you have no idea, absolutely none, of what marriage is, no idea at all.

I have read a lot of different posts about the topic of masturbation, but this has to be one of the most misinformed statement I have ever read.

Please read The Good News About Sex and Marriage by Christopher West.

 

[bilop]

I’m not defending the act. I’m stating the obvious, Christian men need to somehow deal with this issue in best possible way … short of castration for those in priesthood, who have not other options.

Those of us who are single and not priests … should probably marry ASAP. That would solve our individual problems … but, until we find that special one for us, we might be inviting more troubles by hasty actions.

Just curious … why did not Christ speak out on topic ? He probably did … since if everything He said were written, all the books in world could not contain … per John.

Christian men should deal with the issue by striving their hardest to follow the moral law. With prayer, and confession when they fail.

I don’t know why Jesus doesn’t mention. Perhaps because it was generally understood in Jewish law that it was wrong. He doesn’t specifically mention abortion either, or attending Mass, but we accept those rules.

God Bless

 

[fix]

I want to repost this:

In the pastoral ministry, in order to form an adequate judgment in concrete cases, the habitual behavior of people will be considered in its totality, not only with regard to the individual’s practice of charity and of justice but also with regard to the individual’s care in observing the particular precepts of chastity. In particular, one will have to examine whether the individual is using the necessary means, both natural and supernatural, which Christian asceticism from its long experience recommends for overcoming the passions and progressing in virtue.

PERSONA HUMANA

Why would we want to hold on to any sin, venial or not?

 

[BRB]

Please tell me that you do not think that marriage would solve someone’s problem with masturbation. If so, you have no idea, absolutely none, of what marriage is, no idea at all.

.

Well yes … it should solve the issue. Unless your wife is on a world tour for over a month or so. Sex even during first 8 months of pregnancy is fine … in most situations.

The idea that a married man would still desire to see need of the act … unless you are using for birth control … is nonsensical to me. Most women enjoy I.C. every other night or so. Any man that can’t wait a day or so … has some major sexual urges that need professional help. Biologic function can not explain / justify such frequent need of sexual release.

 

[ForwardProgress]

BRB;3562498 Most women enjoy I.C. every other night or so. /QUOTE:

Are you like 13 or something? Are you married?

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

Well yes … it should solve the issue. Unless your wife is on a world tour for over a month or so. Sex even during first 8 months of pregnancy is fine … in most situations.

The idea that a married man would still desire to see need of the act … unless you are using for birth control … is nonsensical to me. Most women enjoy I.C. every other night or so. Any man that can’t wait a day or so … has some major sexual urges that need professional help. Biologic function can not explain / justify such frequent need of sexual release.

Yet all that you have done with your post is to prove to me that you still do not have an understanding of what marriage is and the role that sex plays within marriage. Sex is not about having an orgasm. Sex is not about meeting some biological need. You husband or wife is not there for your sexual fulfillment. C’mon, tell me that you do not think this way?

So “most women” enjoy sex every other night? Where is your documentation? What about the wife that is homeschooling 3 kids and nursing an infant and cleaning a house and washing the laundry, and making dinner, think that she is interested every other night? Making statements like “most women” only helps to weaken your points that you are trying to make.

Masturbation is a mortal sin. Masturbation is not allowed for those that are single, those that are priests, those that are married, it is still a mortal sin. Marriage does not take that away.

You do not have to have an orgasm every other day. You will not die without it and likewise you do not have to have that release as a “natural biological need” on a regular basis.

Funny how having an orgasm (to you) is now an “issue” that can be “solved in marriage.” I do hope that if you are not married that you take some time to reflect on what it means to be called to this vocation and to be a Catholic spouse and if you are that you take that time to reflect on the value that you have placed upon your spouse.

The aforementioned book would be a great place to start.

 

[bilop]

Well yes … it should solve the issue. Unless your wife is on a world tour for over a month or so. Sex even during first 8 months of pregnancy is fine … in most situations.

The idea that a married man would still desire to see need of the act … unless you are using for birth control … is nonsensical to me. Most women enjoy I.C. every other night or so. Any man that can’t wait a day or so … has some major sexual urges that need professional help. Biologic function can not explain / justify such frequent need of sexual release.

Once again, lust and innapropriate sexual acts have NOTHING to do with “biologic function”. It has to do with our fallen nature. Masturbating will only deepen any problems one has with lust.

Please, please get one of Christopher West’s book on the TOB.

God Bless

 

[hasikelee]

Now this is my point…

So much of it is about “what can happen next…”

Also some further thought on dehumanizing and I feel it doesn’t de humanize, it de Christs!

What I mean is we are sexual beings. We differ in ways, male female, that is very appealing to each other. Our race depends upon sex and a healthy sex drive.

But spiritually speaking especially in the Catholic Church but even other “monastic” situations NO sex is part of the path. You want to get more spiritual, be less carnal on all levels!

So is this masturbation thing more about being more Christ like? OF course it is…but why does it bear more weight than numerous other things. I say watching TV cop dramas can lead you farther astray. Being too succesful financially can also hinder a spiritual life (easy for a camel…etc…) does that make them sinful?

I suppose one could label ANYTHING that doesn’t lead directly to Christ as a sin strictly speaking…and shouldn’t that be enough without condemning people to hell for masturbation?

W

W,

If you are on a journey to discover why masturbation is harmful to yourself and your relationships with others and God, I recommend challenging yourself on this statement:

especially in the Catholic Church but even other “monastic” situations NO sex is part of the path

Our sexuality is an inherently important facet in the Catholic Church. If you have a perception that Catholicism asks us to deny sexuality or sex, then I challenge you to dig into that idea. You might find that learning more about how absolutely important sex is to Catholicism will answer your question about masturabtion.

Have you checked out www.christopherwest.com? Have you read any books about our sexuality in the Catholic faith, such as Theology of the Body?

Also, your last statement on anything that doesn’t lead to Christ is a sin…well, that is the definition of a sin. Anything that separates you from Christ, or is less than Christ-like, is sinful.

Masturbation is not an inherent mortal sin. From your post, it sounds as if you are confusing culpability with action. Do you believe a mentally ill person is fully calpable for killing someone?

 

[Subrosa]

This thread reminds me of a song…

There are Jews in the world.
There are Buddhists.
There are Hindus and Mormons, and then
There are those that follow Mohammed, but
I’ve never been one of them.

I’m a Roman Catholic,
And have been since before I was born,
And the one thing they say about Catholics is:
They’ll take you as soon as you’re warm.

You don’t have to be a six-footer.
You don’t have to have a great brain.
You don’t have to have any clothes on.
You’re a Catholic the moment Dad (omitted),

Because

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Let the heathen spill theirs
On the dusty ground.
God shall make them pay for
Each sperm that can’t be found.

Every sperm is wanted.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

Hindu, Taoist, Mormon,
Spill theirs just anywhere,
But God loves those who treat their
Semen with more care.

(All together, now!)
Every sperm is wanted.
Every sperm is good.
Every sperm is needed
In your neighbourhood.

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite iraaate!

Sometimes I get quite serious about levity.

Watch video

Sub

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

This thread reminds me of a song…

Sometimes I get quite serious about levity.

Sub

Who sings that song and what is the title?

 

[Subrosa]

Who sings that song and what is the title?

Hi there MM -

I posted a video!

Sub

 

[Whalstib]

Masturbation is a mortal sin. Masturbation is not allowed for those that are single, those that are priests, those that are married, it is still a mortal sin.

PLEASE!

It is NOT always a mortal sin!

I won’t argue of it’s sinfulness, but to group it with abortion, murder lying, stealing etc…

In fact I say you diminish the seriousness of the other sins. What you are saying is:

“abortion is just like masturbating”

Can you see what I’m trying to say? can you see how your responses suggest just such a thing to a society that actually looks at it like this.

I can see the planned parenthood ad now.

“If your Catholic an abortion is no more serious than masturbation”

That is exactly what your saying as mortal sin is mortal sin cut and dried.

W

 

[BRB]

Sex is not about having an orgasm. Sex is not about meeting some biological need. You husband or wife is not there for your sexual fulfillment. C’mon, tell me that you do not think this way?

So “most women” enjoy sex every other night? Where is your documentation? What about the wife that is homeschooling 3 kids and nursing an infant and cleaning a house and washing the laundry, and making dinner, think that she is interested every other night?

.

Certainly your partner is there to meet your sexual love needs. You meet hers, she meets yours. Mutual pleasure with your love partner, rather than self pleasure of onanism is what God intended for man/woman. If sex is mutually pleasurable to both … then your wife and you will desire it ever second nite or so … and not look on it as some obligation.

Hard working men/women should not deny the other on basis of being tired or having headache. You took vow for “better or worse” … right ? Never withhold yourself from your partner … except for a period of fasting and concentrated spiritual devotion.

Mutual love is the intention of God for marriage. Where did you learn your sexual theology ?

Paul told the early Christians to forego marriage if they could control their sexual desires … otherwise it was better to marry than to burn of lust.

 

[hasikelee]

PLEASE!

It is NOT always a mortal sin!

I won’t argue of it’s sinfulness, but to group it with abortion, murder lying, stealing etc…

In fact I say you diminish the seriousness of the other sins. What you are saying is:

“abortion is just like masturbating”

Can you see what I’m trying to say? can you see how your responses suggest just such a thing to a society that actually looks at it like this.

I can see the planned parenthood ad now.

“If your Catholic an abortion is no more serious than masturbation”

That is exactly what your saying as mortal sin is mortal sin cut and dried.

W

Your definitions are still a little fuzzy. Mortal sin for the Catholic Church doesn’t equal only violent and bloody.

Just because an action is less violent, less bloody, or less personally abhorrent to someone doesn’t mean it is less of a sin.

That’s a legal definition, not a faith and morals definition.

Legally, if someone cuts me into tiny pieces, they might receive a worse sentence than if that person raped me. Both rape and murder are illegal. By making rape illegal, are they invalidating murder?

Now, rape is a mortal sin. Cutting people up into tiny pieces is a mortal sin. Does that mean the Catholic church is saying violent killing is less serious? No. Does it mean, “If you’re Catholic, chopping someone up into tiny pieces is no more serious than rape?”

Do you hear the disconnect when a different example is used?

It’s as if you are saying since both things are listed as illegal, it invalidates the seriousness of the other. That is incorrect.

Also, you are leaving out the degrees of seriousness. If rape and murder are both illegal, they still have different sentences attached to them. In fact, murder alone has different degrees. What about manslaughter?

So, too, are there degrees in sin. In fact, some sins are considered absolute, such as the sin of despair.

Right now you are grappling with what appears to you to be an inconsistency. If you deeply researched how much the Catholic Church values sexuality and sex, you would begin to find answers to your questions. Also, if you worked through the structures of our criminal justice system and the teachings of sin, you would see things come together.

 

[Whalstib]

Your definitions are still a little fuzzy. Mortal sin for the Catholic Church doesn’t equal only violent and bloody.

My definitions are quite clear.

While you must realize I consider masturbation a serious sin and one we shouldn’t succumb to easily it in all seriousness can’t and shouldn’t be compared to abortion which many of you say it is.

There are no degrees of mortal sin.

You don’t come back from hell. That’s it. You need absolution!

Ask yourself…Why would perfectly holy prayer warrior priests disagree with you?
In fact I’ve never been met with such harsh judgements from priests as I do from some you lay people!

Think about that.

W

 

[hasikelee]

My definitions are quite clear.

While you must realize I consider masturbation a serious sin and one we shouldn’t succumb to easily it in all seriousness can’t and shouldn’t be compared to abortion which many of you say it is.

There are no degrees of mortal sin.

You don’t come back from hell. That’s it. You need absolution!

Ask yourself…Why would perfectly holy prayer warrior priests disagree with you?
In fact I’ve never been met with such harsh judgements from priests as I do from some you lay people!

Think about that.

W

W, you are saying that because both abortion and masturbation are mortal sins, they are therefore comparable actions.

Your definitions are fuzzy. I was hoping the analogy of America’s criminal justice system would give you an idea of how two things can be condemned as wrong, yet not be comparable.

Simply being a priest does not mean you speak infallibly on all things. As has been found out by many people in their personal experience, a priest can make errors. Are they made more credible by their authoritative position in the Church? Yes. But credibility is not infallibility.

 

[Whalstib]

Your definitions are fuzzy. I was hoping the analogy of America’s criminal justice system would give you an idea of how two things can be condemned as wrong, yet not be comparable…

I love this analogy! It suits this perfectly!

Of course jay walking and rape/murder are not the same but equally “wrong” if you commit either one; your in the wrong! But are the sentances punishments the same? Even for a repeat jaywalker?

In the case of mortal sin the sentence is the same! and then in fact the sins basically the same!

YOU are saying masturbation is a mortal sin! That will condemn a soul to hell. Prevent receiving the Eucharist! I say no.

I say yes a degree of guilt is carried about till absolution but is it the same type of stain that a murderer has? C’mon! Quit it!

It makes less and less sense to me each post!

W

and NO It’s not OK to masturbate I’m NOT saying that! My stance is it’s not mortal under most circumstances of which the vast majority of us have been guilty of before! or are now!

W!