Is our free choice real

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The concupiscence is here to stay, it is the test. It can be conquered by cooperating with the grace of God, which requires the person to use the will to oppose sin.
And if I’m not given the grace to conquer sin, then what? I’m royally screwed!
There’s your cross of suffering pick it up and quit whining.
I do not have the ability to suffer with a big juicy 😃 on my face. Nope. Can’t do it. I’m not a masochist. I don’t have that gift. Therefore, I am a horrible evil person in your eyes and in the eyes of God. God only wants masochists.
 
It is right and just.

Think of it this way. Think of your favorite celebrity or rock star. The one who you think is awesome. If you go around telling him/her that they’re awesome, is that doing something wrong? They don’t need to know they’re awesome to be awesome.

Same thing with God.
That is strange belief for a Catholic.
Incorrect.

God can create a perfect human being. By saying he can’t do that, you’re denying his omnipotence.
Why then God didn’t create Adam and Eve perfect? What was God’s purpose?
 
And if I’m not given the grace to conquer sin, then what? I’m royally screwed!

I do not have the ability to suffer with a big juicy 😃 on my face. Nope. Can’t do it. I’m not a masochist. I don’t have that gift. Therefore, I am a horrible evil person in your eyes and in the eyes of God. God only wants masochists.
God gives all actual graces that are necessary. No natural act can merit a supernatural reward, but by being made able to act above your nature, by grace, one can regain supernatural life.
 
And if I’m not given the grace to conquer sin, then what? I’m royally screwed!

I do not have the ability to suffer with a big juicy 😃 on my face. Nope. Can’t do it. I’m not a masochist. I don’t have that gift. Therefore, I am a horrible evil person in your eyes and in the eyes of God. God only wants masochists.
being imperfect is the cross we all carry.
Where did i say you are an evil and horrible person? No where’s Bob.
Not once did anyone say one needed to be perfect. Strive to be perfect. Yes.
 
When one looks into a mirror What do they see?
Do they see all the imperfections or do they see a child of God?
If one sees only the imperfections they need to adjust their vision for they are only looking at the I. One needs to look in the mirror and say i am a child of God. I may be imperfect but i am a child of God.
 
That is strange belief for a Catholic.
Why is it strange? It makes a lot of sense. God does not need our praise, but we praise him because it is right and just. It is something we do because we know he’s awesome. It is a component of justice.
Why then God didn’t create Adam and Eve perfect? What was God’s purpose?
Something I’ve been asking this forum for a long time and nobody knows the answer.
 
God gives all actual graces that are necessary. No natural act can merit a supernatural reward, but by being made able to act above your nature, by grace, one can regain supernatural life.
He hasn’t done that to me yet, since I’m still imperfect.
being imperfect is the cross we all carry.
Where did i say you are an evil and horrible person? No where’s Bob.
Not once did anyone say one needed to be perfect. Strive to be perfect. Yes.
No, Christ said that we must be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect. He gives a command that is impossible to do.

When you tell me to “quit whining” you’re telling me the only way to suffer correctly is with a big juicy 😃 on my face, and since I can’t do that, you judge me harshly and declare me evil. You’re telling me I must be a masochist.
 
He hasn’t done that to me yet, since I’m still imperfect.

No, Christ said that we must be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect. He gives a command that is impossible to do.

When you tell me to “quit whining” you’re telling me the only way to suffer correctly is with a big juicy 😃 on my face, and since I can’t do that, you judge me harshly and declare me evil. You’re telling me I must be a masochist.
The reception of grace does not make one perfect, rather it is a lifelong struggle, so that is no proof the He hasn’t given graces.

Catechism

1212 The sacraments of Christian initiation - Baptism, Confirmation, and the Eucharist - lay the foundations of every Christian life. "The sharing in the divine nature given to men through the grace of Christ bears a certain likeness to the origin, development, and nourishing of natural life. The faithful are born anew by Baptism, strengthened by the sacrament of Confirmation, and receive in the Eucharist the food of eternal life. By means of these sacraments of Christian initiation, they thus receive in increasing measure the treasures of the divine life and advance toward the perfection of charity."3

2028 “All Christians . . . are called to the fullness of Christian life and to the perfection of charity” (LG 40 # 2). “Christian perfection has but one limit, that of having none” (St. Gregory of Nyssa, De vita Mos.: PG 44, 300D).
 
He hasn’t done that to me yet, since I’m still imperfect.

No, Christ said that we must be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect. He gives a command that is impossible to do.

When you tell me to “quit whining” you’re telling me the only way to suffer correctly is with a big juicy 😃 on my face, and since I can’t do that, you judge me harshly and declare me evil. You’re telling me I must be a masochist.
My apologies for my harshness towards you Bob.
We both know you handled it with heavenly perfection… What was Christ talking about? Something about being perfect in love as the Father in heaven is…
 
The reception of grace does not make one perfect, rather it is a lifelong struggle, so that is no proof the He hasn’t given graces.
God has given me graces, yes. I appreciate those. But He hasn’t given the grace to obliterate concupiscence, or any other imperfection that still remains in me.
 
My apologies for my harshness towards you Bob.
Apology accepted, and forgiveness given.
We both know you handled it with heavenly perfection… What was Christ talking about? Something about being perfect in love as the Father in heaven is…
I definitely didn’t handle my suffering with even an iota of perfection.

I didn’t see the words “perfect in love” in that verse.
 
God has given me graces, yes. I appreciate those. But He hasn’t given the grace to obliterate concupiscence, or any other imperfection that still remains in me.
Seems to me these are the wrong reasons to expect graces. Graces are give as aids to be loving, not for the removal of obstacles.
 
God has given me graces, yes. I appreciate those. But He hasn’t given the grace to obliterate concupiscence, or any other imperfection that still remains in me.
Temptations (which includes concupiscence) will always remain. God give actual graces, but it is necessary for the person receiving them to cooperate. The actual graces are given even before baptism, for example, and then the faithful have sanctifying (habitual) grace, which of course, can be lost. We are all sinners so in that struggle our part is to resolve not to sin and to avoid the near occasions of sin. The Baltimore Catechism No. 3 gives something on near occasions of sin:

Q. 770. What do you mean by a firm purpose of sinning no more?

A. By a firm purpose of sinning no more I mean a fixed resolve not only to avoid all mortal sin, but also its near occasions.

Q. 771. What do you mean by the near occasions of sin?

A. By the near occasions of sin I mean all the persons, places and things that may easily lead us into sin.

Q. 772. Why are we bound to avoid occasions of sin?

A. We are bound to avoid occasions of sin because Our Lord has said: “He who loves the danger will perish in it”; and as we are bound to avoid the loss of our souls, so we are bound to avoid the danger of their loss. The occasion is the cause of sin, and you cannot take away the evil without removing its cause.

Q. 773. Is a person who is determined to avoid the sin, but who is unwilling to give up its near occasion when it is possible to do so, rightly disposed for confession?

A. A person who is determined to avoid the sin, but who is unwilling to give up its near occasion when it is possible to do so, is not rightly disposed for confession, and he will not be absolved if he makes known to the priest the true state of his conscience.

Q. 774. How many kinds of occasions of sin are there?

A. There are four kinds of occasions of sin:
  1. Near occasions, through which we always fall;
  2. Remote occasions, through which we sometimes fall;
  3. Voluntary occasions or those we can avoid; and
  4. Involuntary occasions or those we cannot avoid. A person who lives in a near and voluntary occasion of sin need not expect forgiveness while he continues in that state.
Q. 775. What persons, places and things are usually occasions of sin?

A.
  1. The persons who are occasions of sin are all those in whose company we sin, whether they be bad of themselves or bad only while in our company, in which case we also become occasions of sin for them;
  2. The places are usually liquor saloons, low theaters, indecent dances, entertainments, amusements, exhibitions, and all immoral resorts of any kind, whether we sin in them or not;
  3. The things are all bad books, indecent pictures, songs, jokes and the like, even when they are tolerated by public opinion and found in public places.
 
Apology accepted, and forgiveness given.

I definitely didn’t handle my suffering with even an iota of perfection.

I didn’t see the words “perfect in love” in that verse.
But you sure saw the preceding verses which were speaking of love.
The discourse was about loving. Not being sinless.
 
God has given me graces, yes. I appreciate those. But He hasn’t given the grace to obliterate concupiscence, or any other imperfection that still remains in me.
Sounds like your pride runs deep. Accept yourself as you are, or don’t. It’s your choice whether you wish to be at peace. God loves you. What more do you want? Try your best. Ask God to make you an ever more loving person, as we should all be doing.
 
Seems to me these are the wrong reasons to expect graces. Graces are give as aids to be loving, not for the removal of obstacles.
I thought one right reason for expecting graces is to be given the ability to do God’s will.

Otherwise, God expects us to do something we cannot do, and that is not only irrational, but also makes God to be a monster, who will punish people for not doing his will that they can’t do anyway.

God’s will is to be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect. Thus, removal of imperfections is supposed to be one of the things that is a good reason for this because it helps people do God’s will.
Temptations (which includes concupiscence) will always remain.
Why?

They don’t exist for the angels and saints.
God give actual graces, but it is necessary for the person receiving them to cooperate.
I’m the weakest link, and I don’t want God to tell me “goodbye”
The actual graces are given even before baptism, for example, and then the faithful have sanctifying (habitual) grace, which of course, can be lost.
Grace can be lost because it is fragile. Imagine trying to fight a war with a sword made out of glass crystal. It would break easily and would not serve well as a weapon. How can fragile grace be used as a means to fight a war against the devil?
 
Sounds like your pride runs deep. Accept yourself as you are, or don’t. It’s your choice whether you wish to be at peace. God loves you. What more do you want? Try your best. Ask God to make you an ever more loving person, as we should all be doing.
I can’t accept myself as I am. God doesn’t.

if He did, he wouldn’t be rejecting me.

It is not my choice to be at peace.

God loves me - what more do I want? How about actually being with the lover? How about being accepted by the lover? How about actually getting closer to the lover? That’s not happening. Every attempt I’ve made to get closer to God has failed.
But you sure saw the preceding verses which were speaking of love.
The discourse was about loving. Not being sinless.
The context was the Beatitudes and moral teachings

Salt and Light. If one is not “salty” (i.e. brings fruit) they are worthless to God and will be rejected.

Fulfillment of the law. Murder. Adultery. Divorce. Oaths. Eye for Eye. Love of enemies. Moral teachings.

In the context, we are to be morally perfect, free of sin, and free of concupiscence.
 
I thought one right reason for expecting graces is to be given the ability to do God’s will.

Otherwise, God expects us to do something we cannot do, and that is not only irrational, but also makes God to be a monster, who will punish people for not doing his will that they can’t do anyway.

God’s will is to be perfect as the Heavenly Father is perfect. Thus, removal of imperfections is supposed to be one of the things that is a good reason for this because it helps people do God’s will.

Why?

They don’t exist for the angels and saints.

I’m the weakest link, and I don’t want God to tell me “goodbye”

Grace can be lost because it is fragile. Imagine trying to fight a war with a sword made out of glass crystal. It would break easily and would not serve well as a weapon. How can fragile grace be used as a means to fight a war against the devil?
An angel makes on decision and cannot change it. For why an angel falls, see Summa Theologica, Part I, Question 59. The will of the angels, Article 4. Whether there is an irascible and a concupiscible appetite in the angels?

Objection 3. Further, some virtues are said to reside in the irascible appetite and some in the concupiscible: thus charity and temperance appear to be in the concupiscible, while hope and fortitude are in the irascible. But these virtues are in the angels. Therefore there is both a concupiscible and an irascible appetite in the angels.

Reply to Objection 3. Charity, as a virtue, is not in the concupiscible appetite, but in the will; because the object of the concupiscible appetite is the good as delectable to the senses. But the Divine goodness, which is the object of charity, is not of any such kind. For the same reason it must be said that hope does not exist in the irascible appetite; because the object of the irascible appetite is something arduous belonging to the sensible order, which the virtue of hope does not regard; since the object of hope is arduous and divine. Temperance, however, considered as a human virtue, deals with the desires of sensible pleasures, which belong to the concupiscible faculty. Similarly, fortitude regulates daring and fear, which reside in the irascible part. Consequently temperance, in so far as it is a human virtue, resides in the concupiscible part, and fortitude in the irascible. But they do not exist in the angels in this manner. For in them there are no passions of concupiscence, nor of fear and daring, to be regulated by temperance and fortitude. But temperance is predicated of them according as in moderation they display their will in conformity with the Divine will. Fortitude is likewise attributed to them, in so far as they firmly carry out the Divine will. All of this is done by their will, and not by the irascible or concupiscible appetite.

newadvent.org/summa/1059.htm

Q. How can grace be used as a means to fight a war against the devil?
A. The three spiritual foes are: 1.) the flesh (concupiesence), 2.) the world and 3.) the Devil (Satan and the Fallen Angels).
So to fight the Devil we have to fight temptation. Suggestion occurs first and pleasure second. Third is consent, and sin occurs only when there is consent. What can be done?
1.) forestall temptation;
2.) battle against it;
3.) thank God after a victory and rise quickly after any fall.

See catholic.org/featured/headline.php?ID=5143
 
An angel makes on decision and cannot change it.
Precisely. God gives the angel that special grace, that allows an angel make a decision for God and for good forever without wavering. I don’t have that grace (otherwise OSAS would be true).
 
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