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BobCatholic
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They’re exempt from the crosses I’m carrying. They don’t have to carry the crosses I do.
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rinnie
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rinnie
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No Bob they may have worse crosses to carry.
May have said this before but worth repeating.
Will make it short.
Man goes into Church and says please Lord take this cross from me please, God says okay, so the Man set the cross in the corner.
God said okay choose any cross here in this room, they were all HUGE, except one Little cross over by the door. The man said I will take that one Lord, God said that is the cross you walked in with.
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rinnie
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rinnie
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I know Bob was dealt a bad hand. And what Bob does not know, and will not understand right now, is it has to be this way for Bob to become the Man God is going to make him become. But he will see it in time.
But I do know where Bob is coming from, when your plate is full, you don’t think you can take one more thing.
You hear I got your back, I got your back, and you feel yeah right with a butcher knife.
I have been there, and Bob is right it sucks it really does. You don’t think you can take one more thing, and then the bottom falls out again. Then when thing’s look like they may be getting better, you are afraid to breath because you are ready for everything to collapse again.
But right now you are at the bottom and you have to keep digging, but you will find daylight that I promise. But if it was easy, what would be the purpose.
But I do know where Bob is coming from, when your plate is full, you don’t think you can take one more thing.
You hear I got your back, I got your back, and you feel yeah right with a butcher knife.
I have been there, and Bob is right it sucks it really does. You don’t think you can take one more thing, and then the bottom falls out again. Then when thing’s look like they may be getting better, you are afraid to breath because you are ready for everything to collapse again.
But right now you are at the bottom and you have to keep digging, but you will find daylight that I promise. But if it was easy, what would be the purpose.
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JimmyDFG
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Does this mean everyone is exempt from the crosses you carry?
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rinnie
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I have been thinking of Bob all day. And in all honesty until you have walked in someones shoes you cannot understand what they are going through. Not that I agree with any of his responses .or many of them anyway.
But with this said although I have not gone through the exact situation as Bob I suddenly today remember something that I forgot.
When my husband had cancer and was going through kemo, All I saw was MY suffering and HIS. I was lucky that God cured him. And then when my brother was going through surgery, them cutting his head open, his suffering,his kemo and then his death, again all I saw was his suffering and MY suffering and the suffering of my family.
It just hit me today something I forgot, and now I can understand what Bob is going thru because today God reminded me of what it felt like. And I am sure Bob can relate to this.
You feel like every other person in the world is happy, healthy, and you are the poor sucker getting all the pain. I felt like Bob at that time. See when your world is falling apart you don’t have the energy to see thing’s straight. You can’t see past your own pain, and you are looking for someone, anyone to take it away, to help you.
But see someday Bob will get relief, thing’s will get better, but now Bob like myself can’t see past the suffering now. You feel like its dark and cold and rainy on a summer day.
No words will help him, because they did not help me. I was like Bob I wanted God to tell me why, and I wanted answers now. And of course it didn’t happen. It makes you bitter and depressed and angry very angry. And jealous of others happiness.
But you finally submit to God and keep going to him, and then one day he takes it all away. And opens the sky and takes away the darkness and pain. Time Bob Time. I know you are tired of waiting, but trust me the darkness will start lifting a little at a time, and then you will once again have light, and you will be such a better person. Because until you know what its like, you will never be able to truly relate to others. Just sometimes knowing someone has been there done that, helps, maybe only a little but it helps.
I myself will be praying for my Friend Bob throughout lent, won’t you others join me?
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JimmyDFG
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I do apologize to Bob, and you as well, if my comment came off as condescending. It was not my intention.
I will join you in praying for Bob and others that are having a hard time. But I would like to say that, suffering has been (and can be) a powerful tool in life in bringing people and myself closer to God
You and all of us are loved by God
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BobCatholic
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Vico
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When free will is not exercised because of a mental or physiological condition that makes the will not free, then there is not culpability for that action. This is because responsibility can only be taken for free will acts. The person that follows Christ gives all that is possible through free will.
There are seven types of ADD / ADHD that Dr. Amen lists.
Core Symptoms of ADD
- A short attention span for regular, routine, everyday tasks (homework, chores, etc.)
- Distractibility
- Organization problems (like having a disorganized room and/or always running late)
- Procrastination
- Problems with follow-through
- Poor impulse control (saying or doing something before thinking it through)
- Low self-esteem
- Inattentive
- Easily distracted
- Disorganized
- Hyperactive
- Restless
- Impulsive
- Inattentive
- Easily distracted
- Disorganized
- More introverted
- Not hyperactive
- Not terribly impulsive
- Inattentive
- Trouble shifting attention
- May or may not be hyperactive
- Frequently gets stuck in loops of negative thoughts or behaviors
- Obsessive and inflexible
- Excessive worrying
- Trouble when things do not “go your way”
- Frequent oppositional and argumentative behavior
Type 4: Temporal Lobe
Type 5: Limbic
Type 6: Ring of Fire
Type 7: Anxious
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BobCatholic
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Precisely what I’ve been saying all along, so why are we still held temporally responsible for the sins of Adam and Eve - in addition to the sins that are based on imperfections?
If one has an imperfection that makes the will not free, there is no culpability, and therefore Adam and Eve should never have been kicked out since they were created imperfect.
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rinnie
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You see Bob you missed it all the way around. No sins are based on imperfections. You see you think as the world thinks and forget to think as God thinks. The world rejects perfection, the world loves imperfection.
You Bob have the perfect Son, the Son who is indeed sinless. He is not capable of sin because of his brain damage, and the world rejects him.
Yet those who have the imperfect Son, the one who is perfect in the eyes of this world is loved, because of his sins.
Your Son like the Son of God is rejected, Jesus because he was perfect in all he did and did not sin, he was hated. And your Son who is not capable of sin because of his brain damage.
You Bob in the eyes of the Lord have the perfect son, but the world does not see as God see’s.
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rinnie
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How were they created imperfect. To be perfect in the eyes of our Lord is to be a Saint and to be free from all sin.
Adam and Eve were not born into original sin, they created original sin. And you like Adam blame God for this. Adam tried to do this also, He was given EVERYTHING but all he had to do was obey God and not eat from the tree.
Do not tell me they were innocent and did not know what they did. The devil said eat from the tree and you will be your own god. They SAID we CANNOT GOD SAID NO. They chose to disobey God and become gods themselves.
If they were so innocent why were they hiding? They knew darn well what they did, And Adam like you tried to blame God. God said why are you hiding? Adam said EVE made me do it, God said no, Adam had free will just like us. Then Adam tried like you to turn it all around and blame God, He said if YOU did not give me the woman I would have not sinned.
It did not work for Adam and its not going to work for you. God said if you eat from the tree you will die, and Adam ate anyway. And he did DIE, death of the soul which is sin. God took away death of the soul, our sins, and offered us eternal life.
Before Christ there was no eternal life, now there is. You keep saying we are paying for the sins of Adam, and I keep trying to tell you no we are not. There is no longer death of the soul, we have eternal life in Christ. He made that possible by Baptism, and then if we do sin, confession. What more could God have done? He sent his only beloved Son to die so we could live? What more could we ask for?
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rinnie
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And you like myself (although it took me a long time to get this understand that it is our way of taking our part in carrying the cross.
It takes great grace from God to even see this as a gift and not a curse. My Dad taught it to me, and by the grace of God I became to understand it.
As we know a parent who spoils a child ends up with a ungrateful child. But the Father who does not ends up with a loving and grateful child. The same with God.
If God made our life perfect, we would be the unhappy spoiled ungrateful child.
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rinnie
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I am for sure the class case. But I have learned that with time and patience from God I can control it better everyday.
The attention span will never be controlled. I am that GET TO THE POINT!! or you lost me.
I think I have pretty much not so much got the argumentative behavior perfect, but have learned to say my piece and then let it go.
The anxiety I have learned comes from the Devil and when I get real anxious or over worried have learned this from my Dad to say (in the name of Jesus Christ Satan get behind me) and I swear works everytime. Because Papa said the Devil is afraid of God and will run and I swear it works.
For myself once I understand that I was not the only person who was like this, and aware of what it even was, I learned that it can be controlled. You learn to catch yourself, and pray for grace everyday to change, or at least try to.
My poor husband is a Saint, and has said I am so much better. If I could be perfectly honest I believe everyone has it, some can just hide it better then others.
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BobCatholic
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No, you missed my point.
When someone is imperfect, the question of them sinning no longer is an IF (as if there is a choice) but a WHEN.
An imperfect person will sin, just give them enough time.
A perfect person has no imperfections and thus they can’t sin because they won’t choose to sin, their free will is perfect and perfectly rejects sin.
And I have to take care of him for the rest of his life, without any guarantee from God that he will provide me the ability to do this. I can’t find a stable job, with benefits. As I get older, finding a job is even harder due to the rampant age discrimination and the government does not enforce anti-age-discrimination laws.
God gives people responsibilities without a corresponding amount of ability to take care of them. Thus I am set up to fail and my son will suffer more because of my failure to keep a job.
That’s the point that you didn’t address.
Of course, God ONLY cares about the spiritual aspect, as you say. God does not care about the temporal things.
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BobCatholic
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I think they had one or more of the following imperfections.
They were ignorant of the facts. You will notice scripture does not have God or anyone else telling Adam and Eve “don’t listen to that snake, he lies!”
They were naive. They will believe anything anyone tells them, even if it contradicts something they were told before. Thus the snake came around, told them a bunch of doo-doo, and they believed it without thinking.
They were prideful. They thought they knew better than God. (hint: everyone seems to be saying this on the forum, so I must conclude this is Catholic teaching). So everyone is saying they had at least this ONE imperfection.
They were fearful. One theory is that the snake was 50 feet tall and majorly intimidating. So they were thinking “OK, the fruit looks yummy, so let’s eat it.” as an excuse to get hurt by the threatening snake.
They were stupid. Seriously, they’re going to listen to a talking snake who they don’t know, versus God who they do know? Ridiculous, they were.
And WHY did God permit the evil snake into the Garden? I thought that being able to be in the garden required NO evil or sin! Why did God have a double standard here?
I like to think that the Garden was hacked and God permitted the hacking instead of putting up a decent firewall.
Saints are prefect. Their free will is perfected and they choose not to sin because they don’t want to. They see things clearly and perfectly.
Everything except being created perfect. His imperfections caused him to be unable to even obey one rule.
Even though I am a total screwup in the eyes of God and have no value, put me into that garden with only one rule of not touching one specific tree, I’ll be glad to do that.
But I do not have such a choice, thus again, my free will is reduced to a cruel joke at best or nonexistent at worst.
OK, so let’s see the proof of what you are saying.
What time is the next flight to the Garden of Eden and which airlines are going there?
If there are no ways to get back to the Garden of Eden, it is because we are held TEMPORALLY responsible for the sins of Adam and Eve - and our ancestors. Not held spiritually responsible, Christ took care of that. God only cares about the spiritual and not the temporal.
How about balancing the scales?
It is ridiculously easy to go to hell. It is our default condition. All we have to do is exist.
To go to heaven, on the other hand, requires a lifetime of horrific suffering and pain, with zero help on the way. Few make it, Christ says.
The scales are woefully out of balance and God likes it that way. If we had a real free choice, it would be equally easy to go to hell as it is to go to heaven. Thus, we do not have free will.
God only cares about the spiritual and not the temporal.
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BobCatholic
Guest
If God made me perfect:
- I could perfectly love God.
- my understanding would be perfect. Thus I would know that I am perfect ONLY because of God, not because of me.
- I would be perfectly grateful to God
- I could make God happy
- I could please God
I don’t ask for a perfect life, I ask for the scales to be balanced.
If I have a responsibility that is guaranteed, my ability to carry that responsibility must also be guaranteed. That requires a steady job with benefits. That requires wealth.
When the scales are not balanced, free will becomes a cruel joke at best, or nonexistent at worst. Lack of steady work with benefits means that it is only a matter of time before I walk into that bankruptcy court. Doesn’t matter how well I handle my finances, how frugally I live, how good I invest - none of this matters. Time is not on my side.
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rinnie
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Oh So you are saying that Adam and Eve did not chose to disobey God, or are you saying they did not know they were disobeying God? They were not naive, they were told you do not have to listen to God you can become a God yourself.
Because Adam and Eve knew darn well what they were doing. They chose to disobey God and become gods themselves. And if they did not know right from wrong why did they hide? Naive? I think not, they knew darn well what they did.
Just like a child hides from Mommy and Daddy when they do wrong.
God created them without sin, if he did not they would not be in the garden of eden in the first place, and God threw them out because they knew darn well what they were doing, disobeying God, they said themselves God said NO.
So God said Go, you want to be your own god, you go for it. He gave them what they used their free will to choose, he led them be their own gods, and look where that got em.
One sin after another.
But Jesus came and gave us perfect balance with God again with the Holy Spirit. Yes Saints are perfect, Are you saying that Pope John Paul ll who is now a Saint never sinned? Huh, I am sorry you are so wrong.
We can all become Saints the same way he did, by using our free will to do so and with the help of the Holy Spirit.
And where did God ever say it would be easy to become a Saint here on earth, because I missed that one, Yes he said the road is narrow, so what Pope John Paul ll had not free will? He did not choose to obey God and reject sin as much as possible, and when he did sin confess his sins? Because something is so wrong here with what you are saying.
To deny help in this world from God is denying the Holy Spirit in my opinion. Because that is how he communicates with us.
And tell me this why did John Paul ll go to confession EVERY SINGLE DAY? Because according to you there is no help, and it is impossible. John Paul did not get to be a Saint on his own it was help from the Holy Spirit in Combination with his will to be a Saint.
But he stumbled along the way or would never go to confession. So unfortunately I have to disagree with everything you said, it is not Catholic teaching.
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rinnie
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Again I disagree, A Saint does not have the mind of God. No one does nor ever will. It will never happen or was promised to us.
So forget about being perfect because its not going to happen not in this world. But God gives you second chances, sixty time six.
We are not perfect until our will is completely united to God, it can happen but usually happens in purgatory.
If you want it, use your free will and do it. Only think of pleasing God with every single thought in your head, do that and money, jobs etc will not even enter your mind. And they will be taken care of.
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