Is our relationship with God repaired by His Son?

[STT]

You still not address the question. Here is the question again. Please, see if you can just speak to it.

I think I answered your question. Could you please rephrase it?

 

[STT]

As Catholics, we confess because scripture tells us to confess our sins to a priest for forgiveness because they were given the authority to forgive them by Christ - as mentioned specifically in scripture.

Moreover, after your confession, you are to make reconciliation for the harm your sin has caused. “Sorry” doesn’t restore embezzled funds, “sorry” doesn’t repair a broken window, “sorry” doesn’t bring back someone you killed because you drove drunk. Your priest instructs you on what this reconciling action will be, especially when it’s not obvious. As a easy, soft-pitch example, if you stole ten bucks from someone, your priest is probably going to tell you that you must give it back.

Good for you. So you are following the scripture.

Respectfully, your constant habit of reciting axioms as facts is a bit tiring. You have no way of knowing that suffering is useless in any particular situation. No way at all. None.

So you think that suffering is useful? What is your reason for that?

By rule of logic, you simply cannot use an axiom of questionable truth value as a “true” premise in a syllogism and expect everyone to pretend your argument is valid and thus deserves consideration. By rule it’s not and thus doesn’t.

This is something you do very, very frequently.

I believe that my basic premise is correct unless you show otherwise.

 

[John_Martin]

Good for you. So you are following the scripture.

So you think that suffering is useful? What is your reason for that?

I believe that my basic premise is correct unless you show otherwise.

Good for you, you are following your BELIEF.
However, belief is not sufficient, as you have said so many times.

 

[Vonsalza]

Good for you. So you are following the scripture.

Like any good Catholic. You are, by the way, asking these questions to a group that is overwhelmingly Catholic. Their catholicity is the result of a multitude of underlying factors that affect how the answer is given. Perhaps you should look into these.

So you think that suffering is useful? What is your reason for that?

From the Christian perspective, suffering is a consequence of a fallen world; both in the sense that we are personally fallen and that this physical world is fallen. All as a result of sin.

To ask why “suffering” is useful is akin to asking why it’s useful that a fallen glass is shattered. It’s almost a meaningless question. You can just as well answer the question by asking yourself “what is the ‘usefulness’ of consequence?”

I believe that my basic premise is correct unless you show otherwise.

Here you go again in unambiguous error… It’s not on me to prove you wrong. It’s on you to prove yourself right.
Please please please see:

Click the arrow next to my handle

I didn’t make that up. it’s in the first few pages of any philosophy textbook covering Aristotelian Logic.

 

[jackydarapper]

Suffering doesn’t heal a wound instead it make it worst.

So why do bad things happen to good people? Didn’t Jesus suffer for us on the cross? Wasn’t his suffering a total and complete sacrifice for our sins? Do we need to unite our sufferings with Jesus to be saved, or is suffering just some random event that happens here on earth with no afterlife consequences?

The bible has the answers. St. Paul says in Colossians 1:24:

“Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church”

That statement packs a lot of theology. Pope John Paul II said that Christ’s sufferings were lacking nothing. What this verse means is that Christ expects us to unite our sufferings with His. Peter talks about this in 1 Peter 4:13:

But rejoice in so far as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.
And why is this? For the sake of The Church, which is the bride of Christ (Ephesians 5:23):

“For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.”

Christ’s sufferings overcame the original sin of Adam (1 Corinthians 15:21-22):

“For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.”

Paul’s sufferings are somewhat different than the sufferings of Jesus, as they are for the benefit of the Church, the bride of Christ. The Church, established by Christ, (Matthew 16:18):

“And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.”

will suffer along with Christ until the end of time (John 15:20):

“Remember the word that I said to you, `A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you”

Some of these sufferings will be self inflicted wounds, like the priest and preacher scandals concerning sex, power, and money. Other sufferings will come from “the world”, like church desecrations, condemnations by politicians and “the media”, and ridicule by non-believers. Maybe even arrests and executions of believers one day, which will be come full circle from the days of the early Christians and the Romans. It happens in Communist countries like China today, as well as in Islamic countries and Hindu countries.

So what do we do with our sufferings? Jesus said to rejoice in them, in Matthew 5:11-12:

"Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before you.”

Read more from … catholicbible101.com/whywesuffer.htm

 

[STT]

From the Christian perspective, suffering is a consequence of a fallen world; both in the sense that we are personally fallen and that this physical world is fallen. All as a result of sin.

Well, that story I know. But God could put an end to our suffering. Why He doesn’t? That is the basic question of this thread.

To ask why “suffering” is useful is akin to asking why it’s useful that a fallen glass is shattered. It’s almost a meaningless question. You can just as well answer the question by asking yourself “what is the ‘usefulness’ of consequence?”

It is not meaningless question. Adam and Eve did something wrong, Jesus repair it and we should be in the Garden again.

Here you go again in unambiguous error… It’s not on me to prove you wrong. It’s on you to prove yourself right.

Take a knife and cut your hand. You want more suffering do more damage to yourself with other things. Does it sound good to you?

 

[STT]

So why do bad things happen to good people? Didn’t Jesus suffer for us on the cross? Wasn’t his suffering a total and complete sacrifice for our sins? Do we need to unite our sufferings with Jesus to be saved, or is suffering just some random event that happens here on earth with no afterlife consequences?

The bible has the answers. St. Paul says in Colossians 1:24:

“Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ’s afflictions for the sake of his body, that is, the church”

That statement packs a lot of theology. Pope John Paul II said that Christ’s sufferings were lacking nothing. What this verse means is that Christ expects us to unite our sufferings with His. Peter talks about this in 1 Peter 4:13:

But rejoice in so far as you share Christ’s sufferings, that you may also rejoice and be glad when his glory is revealed.
And why is this? For the sake of The Church, which is the bride of Christ (Ephesians 5:23):

“For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior.”

Christ’s sufferings overcame the original sin of Adam (1 Corinthians 15:21-22):

“For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.”

Paul’s sufferings are somewhat different than the sufferings of Jesus, as they are for the benefit of the Church, the bride of Christ. The Church, established by Christ, (Matthew 16:18):

“And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.”

will suffer along with Christ until the end of time (John 15:20):

“Remember the word that I said to you, `A servant is not greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you”

Some of these sufferings will be self inflicted wounds, like the priest and preacher scandals concerning sex, power, and money. Other sufferings will come from “the world”, like church desecrations, condemnations by politicians and “the media”, and ridicule by non-believers. Maybe even arrests and executions of believers one day, which will be come full circle from the days of the early Christians and the Romans. It happens in Communist countries like China today, as well as in Islamic countries and Hindu countries.

So what do we do with our sufferings? Jesus said to rejoice in them, in Matthew 5:11-12:

"Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account. Rejoice and be glad, for your reward is great in heaven, for so men persecuted the prophets who were before you.”

Read more from … catholicbible101.com/whywesuffer.htm

That is a long post but my answer is going to be short. I am sorry for that.

So you are basically saying is that Jesus, Son of God, come here to suffer for us and die for our sins. Are you suggesting that God needs blood in order to forgive our sins and repair the broken relationship. I don’t think that God is blood thirsty. What is the use of his suffering? He is God and could come with all His power and put an end to all cruelty and suffering, instead He became a victim of it. All these doesn’t make any sense to me.

 

[Dorothy]

There are people whom their life is merely covered by suffering. We are living in good part of world.

We love the Lord by being compassionate, loving, and helpful to those who suffer. Mother Teresa of Calcutta was a wonderful example of that.

Life on earth is short and the glorious eternity with Our Lord is forever. Our good Lord desires our eternal happiness. We all suffer in various ways. Many believers mourn and pray for those who do not know the Lord and His Merciful Love. The Lord grants great graces to the Body of Christ on earth through the suffering love and prayers of others.

Jesus is the Second Person of the Blessed Trinity…100% God and 100% human. He became Incarnate to show us that He is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. He lived, died, and is Risen from the dead for us!

This life, following Jesus, is the stepping stone to the next life with the Lord forever!

 

[Vonsalza]

Well, that story I know. But God could put an end to our suffering. Why He doesn’t? That is the basic question of this thread.

Oh, well that one is super-easy to answer. If we fell due to the exercise of free will, it could only be lastingly corrected by the destruction of your free will. Since He hasn’t done that, we could assume that God would rather we have our will than be a collection of deterministic clockwork.

It is not meaningless question. Adam and Eve did something wrong, Jesus repair it and we should be in the Garden again.

Absurd. The garden was a realm of sinlessness. Sin is what expelled us from it. You were not made sinless by Christ’s sacrifice. Your means of atonement was completed.

Take a knife and cut your hand. You want more suffering do more damage to yourself with other things. Does it sound good to you?

It would teach me to not cut my hand.

You cannot assert an assumption as true unless it is proven to be. Your posit of “suffering is useless” in unproven and probably unprovable. Ergo, ANY argument premised with that assumption is faulty from the very start.

Sorry man. Logic does actually have rules. You’re in violation of one of them.

 

[goout]

I think I answered your question. Could you please rephrase it?

Rephrase it? Don’t think it’s possible to rephrase such a simple question.

Originally Posted by goout View Post
Why are you so preoccupied with suffering?

 

[Vico]

God can reduce this suffering by opening the sky and taking us to Heaven. You are evading my question: Why we should be held here for the crime our parents committed?

We know by Revelation that Adam received original holiness and justice for all human nature. Also we know that we have a role on earth to fulfill, and we are not whisked away to heaven because nothing impure can be there. There must be purification first through reception of sanctifying grace and any necessary purification after death in purgatory.

Genesis 1:28
God blessed them and God said to them: Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and all the living things that crawl on the earth.

John 13
34 I give you a new commandment: love one another. As I have loved you, so you also should love one another.

 

[STT]

Oh, well that one is super-easy to answer. If we fell due to the exercise of free will, it could only be lastingly corrected by the destruction of your free will. Since He hasn’t done that, we could assume that God would rather we have our will than be a collection of deterministic clockwork.

This is totally unrelated to the question that I asked. Why we are here?

Absurd. The garden was a realm of sinlessness. Sin is what expelled us from it. You were not made sinless by Christ’s sacrifice. Your means of atonement was completed.

We are sinless when we are born as Marry was sinless otherwise she was sinful too and you are going to have a problem that.

It would teach me to not cut my hand.

Why?

 

[STT]

We know by Revelation that Adam received original holiness and justice for all human nature. Also we know that we have a role on earth to fulfill, and we are not whisked away to heaven because nothing impure can be there. There must be purification first through reception of sanctifying grace and any necessary purification after death in purgatory.

Genesis 1:28
God blessed them and God said to them: Be fertile and multiply; fill the earth and subdue it. Have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and all the living things that crawl on the earth.

John 13
34 I give you a new commandment: love one another. As I have loved you, so you also should love one another.

What is the use of purgatory? You can sin there as you can sin on Earth so you might end up to be there forever.

 

[Vico]

What is the use of purgatory? You can sin there as you can sin on Earth so you might end up to be there forever.

Why do you think that a person’s soul could sin after death of the body?

 

[STT]

Why do you think that a person’s soul could sin after death of the body?

I was told that God keeps the person alive after death of body. What does alive mean if he cannot do any act?

 

[rinnie]

What is the use of purgatory? You can sin there as you can sin on Earth so you might end up to be there forever.

Incorrect. Purgatory is a place where a person indeed chooses God over sin, but now that a person has beat the sin, has to rid oneself of the effect of the joy the sin gave them.

 

[rinnie]

I was told that God keeps the person alive after death of body. What does alive mean if he cannot do any act?

Simple when the soul chooses God there is no sin, one choose God and good period.

 

[STT]

Incorrect. Purgatory is a place where a person indeed chooses God over sin, but now that a person has beat the sin, has to rid oneself of the effect of the joy the sin gave them.

You can always choose something over God while you have free will. You can always do sin no matter where you are, Purgatory or Heaven, while you have free will.

 

[STT]

Simple when the soul chooses God there is no sin, one choose God and good period.

That is not correct. You can always reject God after accepting Him while you have free will.

 

[Vonsalza]

This is totally unrelated to the question that I asked. Why we are here?

Perhaps, but a solid rebuttal of your counter. Your attempt at dismissal is noticed.

We are sinless when we are born as Marry was sinless otherwise she was sinful too and you are going to have a problem that.

Lol, the Immaculate Conception is not a new doctrine in Christendom. The problem was solved centuries before you brought it up. It only continues to exist through ignorance.

Why?

Classical conditioning. See “Pavlov’s Dog” for more on this simple concept.