Is Pope Francis reaching out to the prodigals and are some of us feeling like the older brother?

[Starrsmother]

It is not all over this forum!

People are **not **saying “Pope Francis good, Pope Benedict bad”.

Some may be saying, “We love Pope Francis, we love how he does things, we prefer his approach to the approach of Pope Benedict”, but in this they are not deriding Pope Benedict.

If you are going to claim that an attitude of “Pope Francis good, Pope Benedict bad” is as you say “all over this forum” then there should be lots of examples of this that you could quote. Don’t hide behind “I’m not going to link or point out the posts, because I have no intention of giving them any more credence”. If an accusation is made then at least it ought to be backed up with something.

Pope Francis is a hard act to follow–or to precede for that matter. He is naturally outgoing and projects everything the church would like for itself to stand for–and Benedict was a quiet introverted man. Who knows what the next pope will be like–but he may find that Francis’ shadow casts a huge image on the next papacy especially if Pope Francis continues to be a kind of rock star and the next pope turns out to not be quite as publicly popular and maybe more like a Benedict than a Francis! Sometimes Pope Francis makes big blunders in dealing with the secular press–but after all, he may be a pope, but that doesn’t make him God. He’s a man–with flaws–and he is going to make mistakes. I wasn’t a practicing Catholic for most of John 23rd’s time–I fell away shortly after V2. Thus, I also don’t really have an opinion about John Paul or the others. But all of them were simply men who were thrust into a huge job with tremendous responsibility. Some were better than others at handling the public and PR part–and that’s really all we can judge when we discuss a pope–as none of us can see inside their heart or mind or really know what goes on behind the walls of the Vatican. We see a pope write an encyclical or make a statement–but we don’t what all happened or where to cause him to feel the need to do so. It’s not always all about just us as Catholics in the USA!

One thing I’ll say is that I do believe that the Holy Spirit seems to lead the cardinals during the conclaves when they choose a pope. Benedict didn’t have the personality appeal of Francis–but he DID have the humility to recognize and accept when he needed to step aside and hand the reigns to someone else. Can any of us even wrap our minds around how hard a decision like that–one that hadn’t been made in over something like 600 years-- must have been to make? I try to picture Benedict alone–praying in some tiny little area in an insignificant part of the Vatican–and hoping that the decision he was making was the one God wanted–and not just because he was old and tired of the whole fuss and turmoil of being pope? When I think of that, I sort of see Jesus’ hand at work in His church–making little “adjustments” if you will for the good of His flock as a whole!

We all need to pray for the pope and our church–all over the world! Pope Francis in some ways doesn’t even begin to grasp yet what is going on in the American church. He can’t–he’s a little Jesuit priest from Argentina who spent even his time as a Cardinal there living in a small apartment and caring for a fellow priest who was handicapped. And then, one day, he woke up and was POPE! And part of his flock is in, of all places America, nothing like a Latin American country! Now, he’s responsible to Jesus for a bus full of crazy rebellious feminist nuns and another part of his flock are a crowd of homosexuals who have just been told by the U.S government that they are a protected minority and can get married just like a man and a woman! And that’s even before we get to a generation born in the 80’s and 90’s who are into “spiritualism” and “New Age” concepts–not churches and who’ve been raised that way! And all of this is before you even come to a current generation of basically kids with a plethora of worldly “things” but who are growing up in single parent or same sex couple homes and who are more interested in Miley Cyrus “twirking” on stage or the newest hallucinogenic drug available and the legalization of marijuana than their own souls–which many don’t even really believe they have one of! And now enter Pope Francis. I think we better pray for him–and Benedict too. I’m certainly thankful that I’m neither male nor a pope!

 

[severus68]

Pope Francis is a hard act to follow–or to precede for that matter. He is naturally outgoing and projects everything the church would like for itself to stand for–and Benedict was a quiet introverted man. Who knows what the next pope will be like–but he may find that Francis’ shadow casts a huge image on the next papacy especially if Pope Francis continues to be a kind of rock star and the next pope turns out to not be quite as publicly popular and maybe more like a Benedict than a Francis! ** Sometimes Pope Francis makes big blunders in dealing with the secular press–but after all, he may be a pope, but that doesn’t make him God. ** He’s a man–with flaws–and he is going to make mistakes. I wasn’t a practicing Catholic for most of John 23rd’s time–I fell away shortly after V2. Thus, I also don’t really have an opinion about John Paul or the others. But all of them were simply men who were thrust into a huge job with tremendous responsibility. Some were better than others at handling the public and PR part–and that’s really all we can judge when we discuss a pope–as none of us can see inside their heart or mind or really know what goes on behind the walls of the Vatican. We see a pope write an encyclical or make a statement–but we don’t what all happened or where to cause him to feel the need to do so. It’s not always all about just us as Catholics in the USA!

One thing I’ll say is that I do believe that the Holy Spirit seems to lead the cardinals during the conclaves when they choose a pope. Benedict didn’t have the personality appeal of Francis–but he DID have the humility to recognize and accept when he needed to step aside and hand the reigns to someone else. Can any of us even wrap our minds around how hard a decision like that–one that hadn’t been made in over something like 600 years-- must have been to make? I try to picture Benedict alone–praying in some tiny little area in an insignificant part of the Vatican–and hoping that the decision he was making was the one God wanted–and not just because he was old and tired of the whole fuss and turmoil of being pope? When I think of that, I sort of see Jesus’ hand at work in His church–making little “adjustments” if you will for the good of His flock as a whole!

We all need to pray for the pope and our church–all over the world! Pope Francis in some ways doesn’t even begin to grasp yet what is going on in the American church. ** He can’t–he’s a little Jesuit priest from Argentina **who spent even his time as a Cardinal there living in a small apartment and caring for a fellow priest who was handicapped. And then, one day, he woke up and was POPE! And part of his flock is in, of all places America, nothing like a Latin American country! Now, he’s responsible to Jesus for a bus full of crazy rebellious feminist nuns and another part of his flock are a crowd of homosexuals who have just been told by the U.S government that they are a protected minority and can get married just like a man and a woman! And that’s even before we get to a generation born in the 80’s and 90’s who are into “spiritualism” and “New Age” concepts–not churches and who’ve been raised that way! And all of this is before you even come to a current generation of basically kids with a plethora of worldly “things” but who are growing up in single parent or same sex couple homes and who are more interested in Miley Cyrus “twirking” on stage or the newest hallucinogenic drug available and the legalization of marijuana than their own souls–which many don’t even really believe they have one of! And now enter Pope Francis. I think we better pray for him–and Benedict too. I’m certainly thankful that I’m neither male nor a pope!

Why do you post such rubbish? No one has disrespected Benedict or put him down. You however, have your personal issues with Francis and are being insulting. I have bolded your most offensive words.

 

[Starrsmother]

Why do you post such rubbish? No one has disrespected Benedict or put him down. You however, have your personal issues with Francis and are being insulting. I have bolded your most offensive words.

How in the world did you feel that I insulted Francis? I’m probably one of his biggest fans anywhere! I merely pointed out that Francis and Benedict are totally different personalities–and that doesn’t make one a good pope and the other a less good or bad pope! I also stated that Francis is popular with the press–an obvious fact-- but that he faces some serious problems in America–and that we should pray for both Francis and Benedict–that they have tough jobs that would be above my pay grade–even if I were a man and a priest–and especially in dealing with the secular world in America today! If that’s an insult then one of us doesn’t know the definition of the word! I suggest you get a life!!!

 

[Mark121359]

Why do you post such rubbish? No one has disrespected Benedict or put him down. You however, have your personal issues with Francis and are being insulting. I have bolded your most offensive words.

There’s nothing disrespectful or insulting in Starrsmother’s post. She’s simply voicing her concerns, that’s all! And as many have mentioned, Pope Benedict XVl has been disrespected here. But I am having trouble locating these posts, since in the threads that I saw them in, the offending poster got banned or suspended and the offending posts were removed.

***Peace, Mark ***

 

[severus68]

There’s nothing disrespectful or insulting in Starrsmother’s post. She’s simply voicing her concerns, that’s all! And as many have mentioned, Pope Benedict XVl has been disrespected here. But I am having trouble locating these posts, since in the threads that I saw them in, the offending poster got banned or suspended and the offending posts were removed.

***Peace, Mark ***

I disagree. Voicing concerns about the Pope on a public forum is wrong and there were personal remarks made about him.

I never read any post disrespecting Benedict. That would be wrong too.

 

[Brendan_64]

We all need to pray for the pope and our church–all over the world! Pope Francis in some ways doesn’t even begin to grasp yet what is going on in the American church. He can’t–he’s a little Jesuit priest from Argentina who spent even his time as a Cardinal there living in a small apartment and caring for a fellow priest who was handicapped. And then, one day, he woke up and was POPE!

This is a man who was Arch-Bishop of Buenos Aires, Provincial Superior of the Jesuits in Argentina, Ordinariate for Eastern Catholics in Argentina. He was a Cardinal who held positions in the 5 different bodies of the Roman Curia, including the CDW and was runner-up to when Pope Benedict XVI was elected Pope.

He is not some little back-woods parish priest who suddenly woke up and found out himself elected as Pope.

 

[Peebo]

Aren’t we Catholics supposed to believe that a Pope is chosen after much prayer and supplication for guidance to the Holy Spirit…if some people want to pick bones over Pope Benedict v Pope Francis then maybe they need to take it up with the Holy Spirit.

 

[agnes_therese]

Aren’t we Catholics supposed to believe that a Pope is chosen after much prayer and supplication for guidance to the Holy Spirit…if some people want to pick bones over Pope Benedict v Pope Francis then maybe they need to take it up with the Holy Spirit.

Or ask both of them if this sniping at each other is something they want and approve of.

 

[Elizabeth502]

It is not all over this forum!

People are **not **saying “Pope Francis good, Pope Benedict bad”.

Some may be saying, “We love Pope Francis, we love how he does things, we prefer his approach to the approach of Pope Benedict”, but in this they are not deriding Pope Benedict.

I repeat my refusal to link the many, many posts in Catholic News and Traditional Catholicism which criticize and minimize any previous Popes, including the most recent ones. It violates charity to repeat the unseemly remarks from others contrasting various Popes (in the way those contrasts have been described, and the words used).

 

[Brendan_64]

I repeat my refusal to link the many, many posts in Catholic News and Traditional Catholicism which criticize and minimize any previous Popes, including the most recent ones. It violates charity to repeat the unseemly remarks from others contrasting various Popes (in the way those contrasts have been described, and the words used).

And I will assert again that if someone is going to claim that posters on here are regularly making disparaging remarks about Pope Benedict, so much so that you say, “It’s all over this forum” then the reasonable thing to do is to back up such a claim.

It is very easy to make a claim and then use the “I’m not going to show such evidence as I don’t wish to give credence to such posts” excuse. Make a claim about something, provide nothing to back up such a claim, then when your claim is challenged, hide behind such a very poor excuse.

People on this forum are NOT generally making disparaging remarks towards Pope Benedict XVI. Such remarks are NOT (as you claim) “all over this forum”. That claim of yours is simply false.

 

[Corki]

Where has anyone said anything like, “Francis, good, Benedict, bad”. I have seen a lot of Catholics praising and getting enthusiastic over Pope Francis (and rightly so) but I where exactly on these forums are these same people claiming that Benedict was bad?

It’s all over this forum, but especially in Catholic News. I’m not going to link or point out the posts, because I have no intention of giving them any more credence than how they already misrepresent former Popes and their messages.

It is not all over this forum!

People are **not **saying “Pope Francis good, Pope Benedict bad”.

Brendan,

I think you have a short memory. Take a look at some of the threads posted right after the conclave. Several times, Pope Francis was called “a breath of fresh air” as if Pope Benedict was a stuffy old-fashioned pope. Or the comments of “finally! A Pope who ‘gets it’.” as if Pope Benedict was living under a rock and had no idea what was going on in the Church. And how many CAF posters lauded Pope Francis for “turning” the Church’s attention to the poor? If the Church needed “turning” doesn’t that mean she wasn’t attending to the poor under Pope Benedict’s watch? Which, of course is nonsense.

 

[Sirach2]

Brendan,

I think you have a short memory. Take a look at some of the threads posted right after the conclave. Several times, Pope Francis was called “a breath of fresh air” as if Pope Benedict was a stuffy old-fashioned pope. Or the comments of “finally! A Pope who ‘gets it’.” as if Pope Benedict was living under a rock and had no idea what was going on in the Church. And how many CAF posters lauded Pope Francis for “turning” the Church’s attention to the poor? If the Church needed “turning” doesn’t that mean she wasn’t attending to the poor under Pope Benedict’s watch? Which, of course is nonsense.

Clearly, you are reading far too much into these statements, as if the posters deliberately meant their comments as a put-down to Benedict. It comes from an overly sensitive spirit that tends to read praise of one person as an outright diminution of another.

Granted, trads were crowing when Benedict was at the helm, especially with his release of SP. I remember those days well, but folks did not complain that it was an outright slur towards John Paul II. Now the shoe is on the other foot. Do you recognize it? The only ones I see complaining are trads, but they have not put forth a single reference point that makes any such claim. In fact, rants against Francis are downright vicious on a certain trad forum.

 

[severus68]

Clearly, you are reading far too much into these statements, as if the posters deliberately meant their comments as a put-down to Benedict. It comes from an overly sensitive spirit that tends to read praise of one person as an outright diminution of another.

Granted, trads were crowing when Benedict was at the helm, especially with his release of SP. I remember those days well, but folks did not complain that it was an outright slur towards John Paul II. Now the shoe is on the other foot. Do you recognize it? The only ones I see complaining are trads, but they have not put forth a single reference point that makes any such claim. In fact, rants against Francis are downright vicious on a certain trad forum.

Yes.

 

[Mark121359]

Brendan,

I think you have a short memory. Take a look at some of the threads posted right after the conclave. Several times, Pope Francis was called “a breath of fresh air” as if Pope Benedict was a stuffy old-fashioned pope. Or the comments of “finally! A Pope who ‘gets it’.” as if Pope Benedict was living under a rock and had no idea what was going on in the Church. And how many CAF posters lauded Pope Francis for “turning” the Church’s attention to the poor? If the Church needed “turning” doesn’t that mean she wasn’t attending to the poor under Pope Benedict’s watch? Which, of course is nonsense.

Clearly, you are reading far too much into these statements, as if the posters deliberately meant their comments as a put-down to Benedict. It comes from an overly sensitive spirit that tends to read praise of one person as an outright diminution of another.

Granted, trads were crowing when Benedict was at the helm, especially with his release of SP. I remember those days well, but folks did not complain that it was an outright slur towards John Paul II. Now the shoe is on the other foot. Do you recognize it? The only ones I see complaining are trads, but they have not put forth a single reference point that makes any such claim. In fact, rants against Francis are downright vicious on a certain trad forum.

And that’s your interpretation. But there are many on here, and I’m one of them that remembers it exactly how Elizabeth502 and Corki have stated it! Some of the offending remarks were so egregious that they were deleted and the offenders were banned.

Peace, Mark

 

[Starrsmother]

People in general who saw Pope Benedict as “old and stuffy” (as someone above pointed out) didn’t see the part of him that was incredibly intelligent, maybe a little shy, and definitely introverted. I used to watch his eyes as they’d help him up to the microphone when he spoke to the crowds–or as he blessed crowds from the pope-mobile. What I saw was an old man with a lot of pain and worry and responsibility—a holy man, who probably prayed more in one day than most of us will in our entire life! But, that’s what I saw–not what everyone saw–or what the press (especially in America) saw. Anyone who hasn’t heard any disparaging remarks about the comparison between Francis to Benedict is either less than honest or has been living under a rock!! The “rock star” description of Francis was made in a national magazine–and I think that’s what they would like to turn him into. My point was simply that–in my opinion–BOTH are good men–the men chosen for the job by the Holy Spirit through the College of Cardinals at a specific time and for a specific reason. I believe that even Benedict’s decision to step down was a decision influenced by the Holy Spirit–and though I don’t pretend to know the “Why”–I know there must be a greater reason and that I bet Pope Benedict suffered as he prayed and came to it!

The key to my entire comment–which apparently some apparent light weights completely missed–was that Pope Francis IS a Jesuit priest, from a Latin american country, who even as he rose through the ranks in the church apparently continued to live a humble, somewhat un-worldly existence–in accordance with his Jesuit roots. There’s a world of difference, as someone once posted on another Catholic site I belong to, between going back and paying for your own hotel room, or insisting on dialing your own phone and in managing a church with so many facets–especially facets that include the Catholic church in the USA. I truly believe that Pope Francis has the ability to do the job–or he wouldn’t have been chosen. But, I think he is in a learning curve at the moment–thus the “off the cuff” press statements that cause so much uproar recently. He cannot compare the American church to what he knows in Argentina. Our idea of slums is a world away from the ones in Argentina. Our government is different–but can persecute the church just as effectively if not more so than any fascist dictator out there–and it does! Moreover, our people in America, have often sunk into a very material existence–the youngest generation has grandparents who were hippies in the 60’s, parents who were agnostic, new age or basically a “feel good” religion and, for the most part today’s youngest generation here in the USA are a-religious themselves and believe that most anything goes-- from abortion to gay marriage!, They admire people like Miley Cyrus far more than someone like Gorge Washington and any Pope is way down on their list of “important”–if he even makes their list–and if they even know who Washington is! If you doubt how superficial our young have become, watch one episode of “Jay Walking” on Leno some night and then let’s talk again.

My point is that when Francis went to World Youth Day, he saw thousands of Catholic youth–but they represent about the top 5% of Catholic youth around the world. I hope Francis realizes this. The remaining 95%–especially in the USA–spent the time when that conference was going on, in their rooms playing Grand Theft Auto 5 or listening to hard core hip hop while having sex with their teenage girl or boyfriend or same sex friend–and in our culture in the USA–it’s all okay! Pope Francis said he wanted (name removed by moderator)ut from his flock. If so, the only “in put” I would humbly offer him is to get to know who his “flock” is. The entire world went through the changes of the 60’s–and many of those changes were good. But as with everything we do here, we in America made the cultural Revolution our own special thing–bigger, more colorful, larger–and Pope Francis will need time–and or prayers–to decide the best way to handle it. When I read an article that basically maligns Benedict by calling Francis a “breath of fresh air”, I see the secular PC press, with their own agenda at work! Pope Francis is a MAN–a truly holy man,but not God! We need to support him with our prayers and not be lulled into following the press like sheep–just because we like the nicer articles they write about Francis. Because, after all,it’s not about Benedict or Francis alone, or what’s PC, or like-ability–it’s about GOD and saving souls. And again, I re-state that we should remember BOTH Benedict and Francis in our prayers–EVERY day!!! GEEZ! Some of you people surprise even me–and I thought i’d heard it all!!:banghead:

 

[severus68]

People in general who saw Pope Benedict as “old and stuffy” (as someone above pointed out) didn’t see the part of him that was incredibly intelligent, maybe a little shy, and definitely introverted. I used to watch his eyes as they’d help him up to the microphone when he spoke to the crowds–or as he blessed crowds from the pope-mobile. What I saw was an old man with a lot of pain and worry and responsibility—a holy man, who probably prayed more in one day than most of us will in our entire life! But, that’s what I saw–not what everyone saw–or what the press (especially in America) saw. Anyone who hasn’t heard any disparaging remarks about the comparison between Francis to Benedict is either less than honest or has been living under a rock!! The “rock star” description of Francis was made in a national magazine–and I think that’s what they would like to turn him into. My point was simply that–in my opinion–BOTH are good men–the men chosen for the job by the Holy Spirit through the College of Cardinals at a specific time and for a specific reason. I believe that even Benedict’s decision to step down was a decision influenced by the Holy Spirit–and though I don’t pretend to know the “Why”–I know there must be a greater reason and that I bet Pope Benedict suffered as he prayed and came to it!

The key to my entire comment–which apparently some apparent light weights completely missed–was that Pope Francis IS a Jesuit priest, from a Latin american country, who even as he rose through the ranks in the church apparently continued to live a humble, somewhat un-worldly existence–in accordance with his Jesuit roots. There’s a world of difference, as someone once posted on another Catholic site I belong to, between going back and paying for your own hotel room, or insisting on dialing your own phone and in managing a church with so many facets–especially facets that include the Catholic church in the USA. I truly believe that Pope Francis has the ability to do the job–or he wouldn’t have been chosen. But, I think he is in a learning curve at the moment–thus the “off the cuff” press statements that cause so much uproar recently. He cannot compare the American church to what he knows in Argentina. Our idea of slums is a world away from the ones in Argentina. Our government is different–but can persecute the church just as effectively if not more so than any fascist dictator out there–and it does! Moreover, our people in America, have often sunk into a very material existence–the youngest generation has grandparents who were hippies in the 60’s, parents who were agnostic, new age or basically a “feel good” religion and, for the most part today’s youngest generation here in the USA are a-religious themselves and believe that most anything goes-- from abortion to gay marriage!, They admire people like Miley Cyrus far more than someone like Gorge Washington and any Pope is way down on their list of “important”–if he even makes their list–and if they even know who Washington is! If you doubt how superficial our young have become, watch one episode of “Jay Walking” on Leno some night and then let’s talk again.

My point is that when Francis went to World Youth Day, he saw thousands of Catholic youth–but they represent about the top 5% of Catholic youth around the world. I hope Francis realizes this. The remaining 95%–especially in the USA–spent the time when that conference was going on, in their rooms playing Grand Theft Auto 5 or listening to hard core hip hop while having sex with their teenage girl or boyfriend or same sex friend–and in our culture in the USA–it’s all okay! Pope Francis said he wanted (name removed by moderator)ut from his flock. If so, the only “in put” I would humbly offer him is to get to know who his “flock” is. The entire world went through the changes of the 60’s–and many of those changes were good. But as with everything we do here, we in America made the cultural Revolution our own special thing–bigger, more colorful, larger–and Pope Francis will need time–and or prayers–to decide the best way to handle it. When I read an article that basically maligns Benedict by calling Francis a “breath of fresh air”, I see the secular PC press, with their own agenda at work! Pope Francis is a MAN–a truly holy man,but not God! We need to support him with our prayers and not be lulled into following the press like sheep–just because we like the nicer articles they write about Francis. Because, after all,it’s not about Benedict or Francis alone, or what’s PC, or like-ability–it’s about GOD and saving souls. And again, I re-state that we should remember BOTH Benedict and Francis in our prayers–EVERY day!!! GEEZ! Some of you people surprise even me–and I thought i’d heard it all!!:banghead:

When you can’t discuss properly, make personal remarks?

 

[Corki]

And that’s your interpretation. But there are many on here, and I’m one of them that remembers it exactly how Elizabeth502 and Corki have stated it! Some of the offending remarks were so egregious that they were deleted and the offenders were banned.

Peace, Mark

Thank you!

And even more recently, someone posted a link to an article in support of Pope Francis that referred to Pope Benedict as the Liberace Pope. How is that NOT painting Pope Benedict in a negative light?

 

[Starrsmother]

When you can’t discuss properly, make personal remarks?

What personal remarks? If you don’t agree-that’s okay. But I certainly made no personal remarks–and you know it!

 

[felsguy]

My point is that when Francis went to World Youth Day, he saw thousands of Catholic youth–but they represent about the top 5% of Catholic youth around the world. I hope Francis realizes this. **The remaining 95%–especially in the USA–spent the time when that conference was going on, in their rooms playing Grand Theft Auto 5 or listening to hard core hip hop while having sex with their teenage girl or boyfriend or same sex friend–**and in our culture in the USA–it’s all okay!

I nominate this for today’s Grand Prize for Hyperbole.

 

[gracepoole]

Thank you!

And even more recently, someone posted a link to an article in support of Pope Francis that referred to Pope Benedict as the Liberace Pope. How is that NOT painting Pope Benedict in a negative light?

That was me. And I posted it to share a specific comment made by a blogger in regards to how traditional Catholics might be viewing Pope Francis. I certainly didn’t share it to bash Pope Benedict…I assumed that was obvious.