Is psychiatry a science?

[Snugglebugmom]

Psychiatry is dispensing drugs.

With all due respect, there is a lot more to psychiatry than dispensing drugs.

And the main difference between a psychologist and a psychiatrist is that the latter is a medical doctor while the former is not.

 

[PaulfromIowa]

I mean the idea that “mental illness” are caused by biochemical unbalance doesn’t have any support. Is that science? isn’t that a fraud?

It is well documented that chemical imbalances cause most psychiatric illnesses. Many millions of people have been helped by psychotropic meds. Some have not been helped but that does not disprove psychiatric medicine. You probably don’t remember the old days when thousands of people were locked up in asylums and "crazy aunts’ were locked in attics.

 

[Trident_H]

You just proved my point. Psychiatry is dispensing drugs. It is not a science.

Ah. Well I didn’t think you needed me to tell you there was more to it than that. I was just trying for the easy facts. The low hanging fruit. I mean taking a placebo is one obvious clue there’s more available in the basket. Obviously people can be convinced to straighten out without chemical interference if they can pop a sugar pill and get happy from that.

 

[Fauken]

jaimelopez;13530528:

Is psychiatry a fraud?

I believe you are referring to just Freud’s school of thought, which is roundly agreed by most psychologists today to be total and utter nonsense. There are multiple schools of thought in psychology, and his views are neither shared or common within psychology.

Psychiatrists are medical doctors and perscribe medication. They have backgrounds in psychology. Psychologists are not medically licensed to practice medicine and only do therapy. They may not perscribe medicine.

 

[Bob_Crowley]

I mean the idea that “mental illness” are caused by biochemical unbalance doesn’t have any support. Is that sciencie? isn’t that a fraud? You know they( psychiatrists) give medication to completely normal kids and that should make you angry.

I was on Prozac for about ten years, and it helped with my depression.

As the psychiatrist put it, “When you’ve been depressed for a long time, your brain chemistry changes. What Prozac does is to slowly change it back again towards what is should be.”

So there is some truth to the claim that biochemical changes in the brain can cause “mental illness”.

However the same psychiatrist (a Catholic by choice, ex-Protestant, with a lot of spiritual experience) also claimed the psychiatric industry is doing a lot of damage by being too ready to substitute drugs for psychotherapy (talking through the problems). No doubt this is being pushed by the drug companies who make a lot of offers to doctors (psychiatrists are doctors) to use their products.

I’m no longer on Prozac as the depression doesn’t have the same effect. I still get frustrated, but that’s a different story.

The following link gives a layman’s explanation of suspected causes for schizophrenia for example. The brain’s chemistry is involved, but so it would appear are a possible combination of genetics, environment, heavy use of marijuana during puberty, insufficient nutrition, and other factors.

webmd.com/schizophrenia/guide/schizophrenia-causes

 

[Robert_Sock]

I worked as a research psychologist and can attest that every 10 years or so, researchers discover the cause of schizophrenia. Bottom line, we still do not know how medication affects the brain.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

CHRISTINE77;13531086:

I believe you are referring to just Freud’s school of thought, which is roundly agreed by most psychologists today to be total and utter nonsense. There are multiple schools of thought in psychology, and his views are neither shared or common within psychology.

Psychiatrists are medical doctors and perscribe medication. They have backgrounds in psychology. Psychologists are not medically licensed to practice medicine and only do therapy. They may not perscribe medicine.

We’re talking about psychiatry not psychology.

I still maintain that psychiatrists often center on sexuality and dispensing drugs. I have known personally people who have been under psychiatrists’ “care” and everyone of them have been given drugs and not one of them have gotten “better”. Not only that, but the drugs cause a lot of very bad side-effects.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I worked as a research psychologist and can attest that every 10 years or so, researchers discover the cause of schizophrenia. Bottom line, we still do not know how medication affects the brain.

They will never discover the cause of mental illness. All they will do is try to disguise the symptoms and “even” people out. Brave New World.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

psychologytoday.com/blog/sacramento-street-psychiatry/201410/brief-history-psychiatry

Above is an excellent article explaining the history of psychiatry and the problems with it.

 

[In_His_Grace]

Is psychiatry a fraud?

I’m 60 years old and have struggled with serious mental illness for many many decades. Personally I believe there are physiological, genetic, environmental as well as spiritual factors involved with mental illnesses. Psychiatry is a science and not a fraud.

 

[guanophore]

Is psychiatry a fraud?

There are some practitioners who are less than competent, like in any profession. And there are some who are very skilled in their trade.

I mean the idea that “mental illness” are caused by biochemical unbalance doesn’t have any support. Is that sciencie? isn’t that a fraud? You know they( psychiatrists) give medication to completely normal kids and that should make you angry.

There is a lot of support that mental illnesses are caused by biochemical imbalances. Science tells us this.

Not all of them are.

Yes, there is far too much medication being handed out when what people need are coping skills.

It’s a science, and it has helped a lot of people.

Well, so does making pilgrimages to Holy Places, but that does not make it a science.

what about people who have killed themselves after taking psychotropic medications?

I don’t know of any psychotropic medications that don’t have side effects. Some of them are very serious. One must weigh the possible benefits against the possible negative outcomes. Medicines don’t always work, in any part of medicine.

Yes it is a fraud. It originated with Freud in the 1800s. There was no such thing of it before him.

Certainly modern psychoanalysis originated with Freud, but not the study of the human soul and it’s ailments. Freud approached the study of the unconscious from a scientific point of view, and was able to make breakthroughs others did not.

The history of the study of soul goes back to the beginning of recorded history. It was not always called “psychiatry” or "psychology’ but the interest, curiosity and desire to cure souls of serious maladies preceded Freud.

It centers on sexuality as being the reason for every motive in human existence. Unfortunately, somehow it has become a profession, dispenses all kinds of drugs and is of course very lucrative!

Freud did see the libido as the drive for human behavior. But the field of psychiatry has grown significantly since then. It has become a profession because discoveries have been made that help people feel and function better.

Psychiatrists charge a lot because they have huge medical school bills and lots of malpractice insurance to pay.

 

[Bonnie]

I’m beginning to wonder if the anti-psychiatry folks have been influenced by Scientology & Christian Science.

The Catholic Church is not opposed to science.

 

[guanophore]

You just proved my point. Psychiatry is dispensing drugs. It is not a science.

I think you are confused, Christine. “Psychiatry” does not dispense drugs, any more than Environmental Science dispenses pollution cleanups. People do these things, not areas of scientific inquiry. Psychiatrists do prescribe medications to treat diagnosable conditions, just like podiatrists, dentists, neurologists, etc. The use of medications does not prevent a field from being scientific.

While drugs are chemicals, not all chemicals are drugs. See my earlier post about vitamin D3.

According to a very strict definition, a “drug” can be anything we put in the body that produces a change. That would apply to supplements, and even food.

Ah. Well I didn’t think you needed me to tell you there was more to it than that. I was just trying for the easy facts. The low hanging fruit. I mean taking a placebo is one obvious clue there’s more available in the basket. Obviously people can be convinced to straighten out without chemical interference if they can pop a sugar pill and get happy from that.

This being a fascinating topic for scientific inquiry as well.

I believe you are referring to just Freud’s school of thought, which is roundly agreed by most psychologists today to be total and utter nonsense.

This might be a little harsh. Libido might be conceptualized as a primitive way of looking at psychological processes.

There are multiple schools of thought in psychology, and his views are neither shared or common within psychology.

Psychiatrists are medical doctors and perscribe medication. They have backgrounds in psychology. Psychologists are not medically licensed to practice medicine and only do therapy. They may not perscribe medicine.

Psychologists do a number of things, some of them don’t do therapy. Many of them are researchers or teachers.

They may prescribe psychotropic medications with additional training. Nurse practitioners and physician assistants may also prescribe psychotropic medications. Many patients are given psychotropics by their primary /family doctor, who have little training in psychodiagnostics or mental illnesses.

However the same psychiatrist (a Catholic by choice, ex-Protestant, with a lot of spiritual experience) also claimed the psychiatric industry is doing a lot of damage by being too ready to substitute drugs for psychotherapy (talking through the problems).  No doubt this is being pushed by the drug companies who make a lot of offers to doctors (psychiatrists are doctors) to use their products.

Yes, and fueled by our cultural myth that we should be able to pop something in our mouths to make us feel better. Soul work is hard work. The human soul can find healing in ritual and faith as well. Carl Jung, a late contemporary of Freud, recognized that a healthy soul is one that has a “religious” outlook on life. He once said that he did not understand why Catholics came for therapy, since everything they needed for a healthy soul is found in the Church.

I worked as a research psychologist and can attest that every 10 years or so, researchers discover the cause of schizophrenia. Bottom line, we still do not know how medication affects the brain.

Along with a number of other substances and activities, such as prayer and meditation. The human mind is amazingly complex.

I worked as a research psychologist and can attest that every 10 years or so, researchers discover the cause of schizophrenia. Bottom line, we still do not know how medication affects the brain.

We’re talking about psychiatry not psychology.

“psych” is the Greek for “soul”. Psychology is the study of the soul, which psychiatrists undertake as part of their training. Some of their professors are psychologists. “iatry” refers to a specialized form of medical treatment (optomiatry, podiatry, psychiatry, etc.).

The boundry has become blurred now, since there are many other health professionals dispensing psychotropic medications.

  I still maintain that psychiatrists often center on sexuality and dispensing drugs.

Perhaps you have a very narrow range of experience?

I have known personally people who have been under psychiatrists' "care" and everyone of them have been given drugs and not one of them have gotten "better".

I have as well. But, we have no way of knowing that they did not get significantly worse because they were taking medication.

 Not only that, but the drugs cause a lot of very bad side-effects.

No arguement there!

I have a friend who is on chemotherapy right now. It is absolutely horrible stuff. She has decided dying of cancer is worse.

 

[guanophore]

They will never discover the cause of mental illness. All they will do is try to disguise the symptoms and “even” people out. Brave New World.

You seem somewhat pessimistic about this, Christine. Perhaps it is a personal issue for you.

Disguising symptoms is not a bad thing, even when the cause cannot be determined. I know someone who has been put on anti-seizure medications. They were unable to determine the cause, but she is happy that she does not have to worry about falling down and siezing several times a day. Being “evened out” this way is not always a bad thing, though it may not be ideal either.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I have as well. But, we have no way of knowing that they did not get significantly worse because they were taking medication.

No arguement there!

I have a friend who is on chemotherapy right now. It is absolutely horrible stuff. She has decided dying of cancer is worse.

My sister died of cancer, chemotherapy did not stop her from dying of cancer, and did nothing to enhance the quality of her last year of life on earth.

I realize that psychiatry means “study of the soul”, but I do not think that is what is being practiced today. I do think that the loss of religion and community from modern life does result in a lot of people who are very confused and psychically empty. However, not all people who are being treated with these psych drugs are mentally ill. They just don’t feel very happy and don’t cope well.

Drugs is the way we treat illness today, whether it is body or mind or soul. The drug companies and the insurance companies rule and make tons of money!!

There have been mentally ill people throughout history. Sometimes they were ostracized, and sometimes abused and sometimes they were thought of as great spiritualists and prophets.

 

[guanophore]

 My sister died of cancer, chemotherapy did not stop her from dying of cancer, and did nothing to enhance the quality of her last year of life on earth.

I can certainly testify that chemo is hard on one’s quality of life. But that is a subjective judgment. For one person, it is not worth the price, for another, every day they have to put their affairs in order is a gift, and they are willing to trade some quality for it.

I realize that psychiatry means “study of the soul”, but I do not think that is what is being practiced today.

This is a contradiction in terms. It is psychology that is the study of soul. Literally, psychiatry is “treatment of the soul”. I agree, there is very little actual treatment of the soul in psychiatry. Spiritual experiences are often looked upon as evidence of psychosis!

I do think that the loss of religion and community from modern life does result in a lot of people who are very confused and psychically empty.

Yes this is very true. Our culture needs healing.

However, not all people who are being treated with these psych drugs are mentally ill. They just don’t feel very happy and don’t cope well.

Absolutely I agree with you. But psych meds are given for many problems, even for symptoms that are not part of a diagnosed mental illness. And the very term of “mental illness” is also subjective, as evidenced in the link you gave above. The diagnostic manual is supposed to be a consensus of modern science, but things that were considered an illness 30 years ago are not any longer, and we have new “illnesses” that were not described in previous DSM’s.

Drugs is the way we treat illness today, whether it is body or mind or soul.  The drug companies and the insurance companies rule and make tons of money!!

Well, I would recommend you not lump yourself with the “we” who have such a myopic view. Healing happens in many ways, and “we” do not need to sign on with the prevailing view of medicating symptoms.

There have been mentally ill people throughout history.  Sometimes they were ostracized, and sometimes abused and sometimes they were thought of  as great spiritualists and prophets.

Indeed. And reclaiming some of this is a good task for psychology!

 

[Bonnie]

I have as well. But, we have no way of knowing that they did not get significantly worse because they were taking medication.

The not-knowing is interesting. I’m at high risk for glaucoma so I take lutein daily. If I never get glaucoma, it may be because of the lutein, or maybe I never would have gotten glaucoma anyway. If I do get glaucoma, it could be because I’m not taking enough to be effective, or I should have been taking it sooner, or perhaps nothing would prevent the disease.

 

[DaveBj]

Amen! Many of us who suffer extra depression in winter are helped by vitamin D3. Better living through chemistry!

Or caffeine. I can be an absolute Grouchus Maximus when I get up, but after my morning beverage, I’m all and ready to take on the day.

I’m totally guessing here, but I’m pretty sure that some mental disorders are, in fact, caused by chemical imbalances in the brain, while others are caused by crossed wiring. However, it seems to me that the way the psychiatric community works is to say, “Okay, we’ll try this, and if this doesn’t work, then we’ll try that, and if that doesn’t work, there’s a third option we can try . . .” My wife is on several psychotropics, and over the years it has seemed like her doctors have been just guessing. My reaction to being prescribed one of those would be to ask, “What, exactly, is missing in my brain chemistry? How do you know it’s missing? And how is this drug going to replace it.”

So, in answer to the thread title, is psychiatry a science. Sure it is, right up there with alchemy and astrology. That’s my take. TMMV.

 

[jaimelopez]

How do you know these people wouldn’t have killed themselves without? If they killed themselves, they were already depressed. What about the greater number of people who are helped?

How do you know how many people are helped? Lol.
everybody here agree that mental illness is caused by chemical imbalance in the brain do you? But that claim does NOT have any foundation, where is it? I keep waiting for it.

 

[Bonnie]

How do you know how many people are helped? Lol.
everybody here agree that mental illness is caused by chemical imbalance in the brain do you? But that claim does NOT have any foundation, where is it? I keep waiting for it.

This is a forum, not a medical school. You’re not going to get “proof” here. Perhaps you could read some pre-med textbooks about mental illness. There are also a number of books about the subject for laymen, written by scientists, doctors, and science writers. Your public library may have a few - ask your librarian.

Those of us who suffer from various “mental” problems, or have loved ones who do, know it is much more complicated than some people think. Psychiatry is not yet a science, but science is used to understand mental/emotional/brain problems better - and hopefully find cures.