Is psychiatry a science?

[In_His_Grace]

Seriously?

I have a mental disorder. A personality disorder to be more exact. It is treated by psychiatrists, often with assisting psychologists, though a treatment called ‘Dialectical behaviour therapy’. It can not be treated by drugs.

How does that square with your statement that psychiatry is only about ‘dispensing drugs’?

Even if psychiatric treatment was primarily about dispensing drugs that doesn’t mean it isn’t science. The local pharmacist only dispenses drugs yet pharmacy is a science. It is an accepted part of the health sciences.

As for your later statement:

I have been under the care of 3 different psychiatrists in the last 6 years. Not one of those psychiatrists has focused in on sexuality as the cause or centre of anything. Nor have any of them focused on treating things with drugs unless things get to a point where there is no choice (I do have diagnoses other than the personality disorder unfortunately). I am only on the drugs for as long as necessary then I am taken off and we look at treating the root cause.

What you are saying is dangerous. Psychiatry has saved my life and it has helped numerous other people. Such black and white statements along the lines that psychiatry is all fraud that cannot help anyone could influence someone who needs psychiatric help to dismiss it or even stop treatment that is helping. That makes me angry.

Not only did psychiatry save my life but it has made my life liveable. Today I am a functioning member of society. I wasn’t for many years. In fact I was so bad I was legally declared disabled and incapable of ever been able to work. Now I have been in full time work for over 4 years - and it was because of psychiatry. I’m sorry your friends and family haven’t had the same results I saw. That doesn’t mean that the entire field should be dismissed.

You say your sister died of cancer despite chemotherapy. I’m curious, does that mean you tell everyone with cancer that chemotherapy is a fraud and never helps anyone?

What you are saying is dangerous. Psychiatry has saved my life and it has helped numerous other people. Such black and white statements along the lines that psychiatry is all fraud that cannot help anyone could influence someone who needs psychiatric help to dismiss it or even stop treatment that is helping. That makes me angry.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Behavioural therapy can be incredibly effective. Dialectical behavioural therapy is the only treatment for Borderline personality disorder and has been found to be very effective so long as the patient remains committed to the therapy. Much like chemo, if you drop out of treatment it won’t work.

Chemo won’t work for most cancers. You are wrong.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Amen! Many of us who suffer extra depression in winter are helped by vitamin D3. Better living through chemistry!

Vitamen D is not a drug.

 

[Aloysium]

A problem with modern psychiatry is that they experiment with people. Studies are done for example on whether Zoloft helps with depression. However, psychiatrists will give Zoloft to someone who is also on an anti-psychotic. This combination has not been studied. When you start combining different psychotropics, you essentially have a new medication which is a combination of two medications. This “new” medication often has not been tested.

I don’t understand how testing the risks and benefits of medication on people once they are found to be safe on animals could be a problem.
Your statement regarding the use of drug combinations suggests even more human studies should be conducted.
When two medications are taken, they do not combine to form a new medication. They continue to act individually, but their actions could be cumulative or competitive.
Medications have multiple effects on diverse bodily systems. People are complex and may have different neurophysiological problems going on. To sort out what could be psychiatrically and physically going on, while considering the potential of side effect of medications on top of trying to help the patient with their personal, family and social problems, I’m sure it is as much an art as it is a science.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I don’t understand how testing the risks and benefits of medication on people once they are found to be safe on animals could be a problem.
Your statement regarding the use of drug combinations suggests even more human studies should be conducted.
When two medications are taken, they do not combine to form a new medication. They continue to act individually, but their actions could be cumulative or competitive.
Medications have multiple effects on diverse bodily systems. People are complex and may have different neurophysiological problems going on. To sort out what could be psychiatrically and physically going on, while considering the potential of side effect of medications on top of trying to help the patient with their personal, family and social problems, I’m sure it is as much an art as it is a science.

I don’t think people should be experimented with. Would you like to have a cocktail of drugs that no one knows the long term side effects from? Rats are not human beings.

 

[Alex_H]

What do you mean by “happy”?

For one, I don’t think of killing myself daily.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I think you are confused, Christine.
“psych” is the Greek for “soul”. Psychology is the study of the soul, which psychiatrists undertake as part of their training. Some of their professors are psychologists. “iatry” refers to a specialized form of medical treatment (optomiatry, podiatry, psychiatry, etc.).

.

I think you are confused Guanophore:

Psychiatry: First used in the 19th century, the noun psychiatry originates from the Middle Latin word psychiatria, meaning “a healing of the soul,” which traces back to the Greek word psykhe, meaning “mind,” and iatreia, meaning “healing, care.” Someone who practices psychiatry focuses on healing the soul — or the mind — of those suffering from mental illness.
**

Psychology** :the scientific study of the human mind and its functions, especially those affecting behavior in a given context.

synonyms: study of the mind, science of the mind

 

[CHRISTINE77]

For one, I don’t think of killing myself daily.

Well thank God for that! I am glad you are not suicidal.

 

[multitude]

Science or not, anecdotally I’ve known people diagnosed with mental illnesses and prescribed medication for it. I’ve seen enough of its “effects”. Personally I would never want anything to do with psychiatrists.

 

[Aloysium]

I don’t think people should be experimented with. Would you like to have a cocktail of drugs that no one knows the long term side effects from? Rats are not human beings.

I would rather that medications be tested before they are prescribed for me.
I don’t see how this can be done without human trials.
People that I know have been enrolled in drug studies when the usual medication failed to control their cancer. In those cases the meds failed, but this was important information for cancer research.
Sometimes the illness is so bad that it is worth the risk. When suicide is a possible outcome I would think that it would take very serious side effects to make one choose not to take them.
To give people medication that has only been tried on animals is conducting human experimentation. Any psychiatric drug has to have undergone human studies before it is released to the public.
If nothing else worked for a particular condition, I would probably volunteer as a subject if I felt the benefits were worth it. I guess it is a personal decision and as far as I know no one is coerced into such studies.

 

[meltzerboy]

PSYCHOLOGY is often a philosophical position parading about as science. IMHO, any undergraduate course in the subject, coupled with a brief overview of how to analyze and read research, can at least leave one suspicious of many aspects of the field.

Psychiatry is often rooted in medical science, yes, but I’m extremely unfamiliar with such things.

Regarding what else could cause mental illness besides chemical imbalances: diabolical possession and other forms of diabolical influence.

Have you ever taken an introductory course in psychology? If you have, you would realize that the science of psychology is not limited to abnormal and clinical psychology, which involves therapies designed to help people who have psychological disorders. There are other major branches of psychology which have little or nothing to do with therapy, among them biological psychology, cognitive psychology, developmental psychology, personality psychology, and social psychology. There are also sub-branches of these, including forensic psychology, industrial-organizational psychology, health psychology, sports psychology, psychology of music, psychology of religion, and so on. Psychology is a vast field and it is based on scientific theories which are formulated using the scientific method. Philosophy is one of the roots of psychology, as is biology. But the early schools of psychology sought to break away from their roots, and that is in itself a fascinating study called history and systems of psychology.

 

[jaimelopez]

“That is easy. They use the International Compendium of clinical disorders. All the experts got together and picked out the diagnostic criteria, and whoever meets them gets a diagnosis. ”
well,It seems like Episcopal church

“Saying that “psychiatry has always gotten wrong” seems like an uneducated and prejudicial statement.”
Well I’m curious how you prove I’m wrong.

“History demonstrates that psychiatry has significantly improved the quality of life for mentally ill people.”
Stop proving everything you write please

“Just for the record, though, I think making a profit off the suffering of others is a grave moral evil. This applies to any science or business venture.”
yeah, specially psychiatry

 

[jaimelopez]

It must be a science per the definition in Collins (American).

**Science: **2. systematized knowledge derived from observation, study, and experimentation carried on in order to determine the nature or principles of what is being studied

“systematized knowledge derived from observation” Have you ever seen the bipolar disorder?

“experimentation carried on in order to determine the nature or principles of what is being studied”
certainly, this does NOT apply to psychiatry where everything is subjective, Please awake!

 

[CatholicSheila]

“Saying that “psychiatry has always gotten wrong” seems like an uneducated and prejudicial statement.”
Well I’m curious how you prove I’m wrong.

You said ‘always’. All it requires is one person for whom psychiatry got it right and you’re proven wrong.

My testimony is written above. Psychiatry got it right for me. Hence, you’re wrong.

“Just for the record, though, I think making a profit off the suffering of others is a grave moral evil. This applies to any science or business venture.”
yeah, specially psychiatry

I’m curious about how consistent you are. Do you have a problem with all doctors making a profit, or just psychiatrists?

 

[CatholicSheila]

Chemo won’t work for most cancers. You are wrong.

I’m wrong about psychiatry because I suggested that if you stop chemo treatment the chemo won’t work?

Besides that, I never said Chemo will always work if you continue treatment. Or that it works for every type of cancer. I said it won’t work if you stop. Those are not remotely the same statement and what I said is definitely true. Although even if I did say what you are insinuating, it wouldn’t prove I was wrong about psychiatry. It would simply prove I don’t know a lot about cancer and chemo treatment.

I find it interesting that is all you have to say to everything I wrote. No comment on the fact that psychiatry has caused huge improvements in my life or the fact that everything you claim about psychiatry is completely wrong when looking at my experience?

 

[Oreoracle]

My main issue with psychiatry is the tendency to define illnesses in terms of their symptoms. Take ADHD, for example. The disorder is purportedly a brain issue, yet it’s defined as a set of behaviors; incidentally, the very set of behaviors that are observed when diagnosing it. So to say that someone has Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder literally amounts to saying that they are hyperactive and have a low attention span. This is a bit like explaining the unexpected death of an infant by saying they were a victim of Sudden Infant Death Syndrome.

Could you imagine if the rest of modern medicine adopted this approach? No sir, you don’t have the cold, you have Sore Throat, Cough, and Runny Nose Disease. Unfortunately the flu presents with the same symptoms, so good luck distinguishing the flu from the cold. Ultimately you have to define a disease by its causes, not its symptoms.

None of this is to say that the medicine psychiatrists prescribe isn’t helpful, it just means the theoretical framework used to explain why the medicine works isn’t developed. This is nothing new. Humanity has used drugs to treat symptoms without understanding why they work for millennia.

 

[Aloysium]

The issue I would see with ADHD is not so much that it is defined by symptoms rather than lab tests, but it’s place in society.

It is a good thing that a doctor listen to you and try to sort things out. In my country with socialized medicine, one of the drawbacks is that they work for the government.You look them straight in the ear as they busily get down what they have to on their computer. Then they send you out for tests asap, to get the next guy in and maximize their hourly rate. I agree I’m overly cynical. It will be a bad day when they hook you up to a computer like they do the car, and it spits out a diagnosis based on the results of physical tests.

Many diseases are syndromes. Even diabetes is part of a metabolic syndrome. They really don’t know all the factors that go into it. I’m sure there’s lots of discussion at the cutting edge over what areas in the frontal and parietal lobes and in the midbrain are involved in the variety of attention problems that bring people to doctors.

The issue I have is what I hear from kids going to the local school. Dexedrine is supposed to be in high demand at exam time. It gives you that extra edge to stay up studying and focus during the exam. If someone wants to wreck their health to get ahead, maybe it is their choice. But, these are kids, and if you know the completion is doing it, you are pressured into doing likewise to stay in the game. At what price success. “For what, in the end?” says the old man. Looking at their less gifted brothers and sisters we often observe the consequences of a drug culture, the use of chemicals to escape (treat?) failure. A society with its values all mixed up is what I see; psychiatry is simply part of it. Old man ranting.

 

[In_His_Grace]

Over the years I’ve been hospitalized psychiatric (name removed by moderator)atient more times then I can even remember (probably about 10 times). I’ve seen mental illness up close and personal, everything from A - Z. Might I suggest spending a few months volunteering at one of the larger psychiatric hospitals in or near a big city, might just give you a whole new perspective about mental illness.

 

[guanophore]

Absolutely. I was with my ex-girlfriend for 7 1/2 years and she was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder, the most severe of the personality disorders. Dialectical Behavioural Therapy helped her tremendously, along with meds, but she had to stick with the program and work hard.

I think this is true about treating/managing any kind of chronic condition like diabetes or high blood pressure. It is learning different life skills and maintaining balance. A psychiatrist can’t do that for anyone.

Chemo won’t work for most cancers. You are wrong.

Christine, have you ever considered that other people may have had a different experience than you have, and that maybe it is not all negative? Maybe you feel like psychiatry has not helped you, but suppose other people have been helped?

You seem to have a judgmental attitude about it.

Vitamen D is not a drug.

It is regulated by the food and drug administration. It must be a drug! Anyway, it is recommended by psychiatrists for seasonal affective depression.

To sort out what could be psychiatrically and physically going on, while considering the potential of side effect of medications on top of trying to help the patient with their personal, family and social problems, I’m sure it is as much an art as it is a science.

This is a good point, A. It really is as much art as science.

I don’t think people should be experimented with. Would you like to have a cocktail of drugs that no one knows the long term side effects from? Rats are not human beings.

Certainly without their informed consent. People need to volunteer for medication trials. Some do it because they are desperate to feel better and will try anything. Some like the stipends that come with trials. There are also many medical services provided in studes that are free to participants.

I think you are confused Guanophore:

Psychiatry: First used in the 19th century, the noun psychiatry originates from the Middle Latin word psychiatria, meaning “a healing of the soul,” which traces back to the Greek word psykhe, meaning “mind,” and iatreia, meaning “healing, care.” Someone who practices psychiatry focuses on healing the soul — or the mind — of those suffering from mental illness.
**

Psychology** :the scientific study of the human mind and its functions, especially those affecting behavior in a given context.

synonyms: study of the mind, science of the mind

No, I just reject the modern definition of psychology. The textbook I use at the community college defines psychology as “measurable and observable behavior”. I think this is a travesty in reference to the human soul, most of which is NOT observable or measurable. For one thing, it cannot include anything spiritual, because it does not meet the criteria. A true science studies all of a phenomena, not limiting study to what is convenient. This definition comes from taking the soul out of psychology.

 

[guanophore]

“systematized knowledge derived from observation” Have you ever seen the bipolar disorder?

Yes, a great deal. I have also seen people diagnosed with it that really have something else (misdiagnosed)

“experimentation carried on in order to determine the nature or principles of what is being studied”
certainly, this does NOT apply to psychiatry where everything is subjective, Please awake!

You might want to consider studying this on your own,Jaime. Diagnoses in psychiatry are not subjective. Patients must meet diagnostic criteria for each condition.
"guanophore:

“Saying that “psychiatry has always gotten wrong” seems like an uneducated and prejudicial statement.”

Well I’m curious how you prove I’m wrong.

You mean prove that you are uneducated and prejudiced? I don’t see how I could.

There are many testimonies on this thread of people who have been helped by psychiatry. If you cannot accept their word, it is not likely any “proof” of mine would make a difference. You either have an open mind, or not.

I find it interesting that is all you have to say to everything I wrote. No comment on the fact that psychiatry has caused huge improvements in my life or the fact that everything you claim about psychiatry is completely wrong when looking at my experience?

Thanks for your posts Sheila you are an inspiration.

On of the ways to identify bigotry/prejudice is when a person is unable to take into account the experience and testimony of others. Letting in that information would force one to shift one’s attitude, so it must be discounted somehow.